HHH in 2000

[keith_h]

Last man standing match (better VQ) -

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXGvGNYtGtQ

 

 

[Matt D]

I'm cool on it being on EVERYONE if we start a whole weekly note/discussion thing and run it for a while.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I don't see why the burden of proof should be on the people who believe HHH had a great 2000. It should be a shared burden where there are people arguing against these matches as well. So far the popular opinion in this thread is that either it was a "good year" or a great one.

I'm willing to do it. Probably haven't thought deeply about the pro wres since Benoit.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

And thanks for the links, my dudes

[Niners Fan in CT]

It's been a while since I watched some of them but I will also do the weekly challenge if others are up for it.

[JonnyLaw]

Pedigree always looked like a wimpy move that old time lady wrestlers used.

Wait, what?

[goodhelmet]

I don't see why the burden of proof should be on the people who believe HHH had a great 2000. It should be a shared burden where there are people arguing against these matches as well. So far the popular opinion in this thread is that either it was a "good year" or a great one.

 

Because the burden of proof in the dead forum was to name 100 wrestler years better than HHH's 2000 and so now it is FSW's turn. I don't care if anyone BUT FSW posts in this thread. He has to. Nobody else has to bother.  Instead of saying HHH's 2000 was great as an undisputed fact, explain why it was great. I don't agree with Matt D on much of anything but he always explains why he feels the way he does. I love that.  

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

 

I don't see why the burden of proof should be on the people who believe HHH had a great 2000. It should be a shared burden where there are people arguing against these matches as well. So far the popular opinion in this thread is that either it was a "good year" or a great one.

 

Because the burden of proof in the dead forum was to name 100 wrestler years better than HHH's 2000 and so now it is FSW's turn. I don't care if anyone BUT FSW posts in this thread. He has to. Nobody else has to bother.  Instead of saying HHH's 2000 was great as an undisputed fact, explain why it was great. I don't agree with Matt D on much of anything but he always explains why he feels the way he does. I love that.  

 

Tuesday I hope to have something up pal.

[The Natural]

Best Triple H match in 2000 for me is either the Iron Man match with The Rock at Judgment Day which is probably my favourite match of the feud and Triple H vs. Chris Jericho's Last Man Standing match at Fully Loaded 2000 and that's the best match they had.

[Greggulator]

That Ironman match ruled. It was so smartly laid out in terms of falls and the like. Ironman matches are my favorite gimmick matches. They did so many really great things like taking a DQ fall in order to gain another one -- really clever stuff that I never contemplated would happen. The layout of this match had Pat Patterson's fingerprints all over it which is a good thing because that dude knew how to put matches together like no other.  It also set the template for the other Ironman matches to come later. The only strike against the match was the ending, which wasn't the fault of HHH or The Rock but because they wanted to have outside interference from The Undertaker factor into the end and the timing got screwy. Shawn Michaels' pants also detracted a bit.

 

Some people criticized that match because they "wasted too much time" brawling to kill time. I mean, yeah, they probably did that. But HHH and The Rock were rivals billed as equals -- one of them getting a quick fall that early doesn't play into that. It'd take them at least that long to get a pinfall in a regular match.

 

I kind of hate it sometimes in Ironman/2-out-of-3 matches when people get a real quick pinfall. But it also sort of makes sense because you still have 50+ minutes to make up a fall. Why expend your energy that early in order to kick out of  a 3? Also, the face overwhelmingly always gets the first fall. That's just a great crowd pop and is also like a "hot opening match on show that a face wins" but in a single match. I'm sure there has to be an Ironman where the heel cheated to get an early first fall but it's almost always first. The Rock got the first pin in this via a Rock Bottom.I also liked this one because The Rock is playing catchup most of the match. He was an overwhelming fan favorite. It's like in the NCAA tournament or a football game with teams you're not a diehard fan of -- rooting for a big comeback is human nature. And in wrestling, you also have the added bonus that HHH got the advantage via nefarious means. He used a chair (got DQ'd out of it that evened the match) but stole two falls to put him up two. That also ties into the whole "Cerebral Assassin" thing with HHH just outsmarting everyone.

[Chris Migs]

 

I don't see why the burden of proof should be on the people who believe HHH had a great 2000. It should be a shared burden where there are people arguing against these matches as well. So far the popular opinion in this thread is that either it was a "good year" or a great one.

 

Because the burden of proof in the dead forum was to name 100 wrestler years better than HHH's 2000 and so now it is FSW's turn. I don't care if anyone BUT FSW posts in this thread. He has to. Nobody else has to bother.  Instead of saying HHH's 2000 was great as an undisputed fact, explain why it was great. I don't agree with Matt D on much of anything but he always explains why he feels the way he does. I love that.  

 

 

But on the other hand, basically all of those matches (save Sur Ser against Austin, and maybe the six man tag), got ***1/2+ at the time. And honestly, I was reading a lot of internet wrestling discussion in 2000 - I don't recall very many people arguing that Triple H wasn't on a hot run. Certainly both sides have to make arguments, but I think the *burden* would have to be on those arguing those matches don't hold up, because they got pretty universal acclaim at the time.

 

I actually watched all of these matches in the last few months - the ones that were highly rated absolutely hold up. The Street Fight is the best of the bunch, and Triple H absolutely keeps up with Cactus that much and takes an absolute beating for our enjoyment. Hell in a Cell has fallen off a little bit over time (I saw that get ***** in 2000... it's more like **** - fun with great bumps, but without the drama as to what the finish would be, it loses something. The Backlash and Iron Man matches are also some excellent work, probably among Rock's best WWF matches. 

[goodhelmet]

Not in this thread. This is an FSW exercise. He needs to explain why they hold up. His short example during the Summerslam post was a start. Nobody else has to participate here but you are welcome to. You can create an alternate thread where people shit on HHH.

Also we revisit stuff all the time. HHH's 2000 should be no different. We like things less or more when we revisit things. I am not going to cling to star ratings that were thrown out 13 years ago.

[DylanWaco]

I actually don't think I argued that the matches didn't hold up.  I certainly had good things to say about the Foley Street Fight, the Taka match, the Ten Man Tag, the Iron Man Match and the Rikishi match at minimum.  I am less high on HITC than some, but I thought it was a good match.  I enjoyed the LMS match and give HHH credit for some good bumps and a great blade job, but my memory of that was that he short sold the Liontamer at a key point in the match and it pissed me off at the time.  In any case the point of that thread wasn't that HHH didn't have good matches in 2000, it was that the year was not an all time great year in the ring.  

[Niners Fan in CT]

In any case the point of that thread wasn't that HHH didn't have good matches in 2000, it was that the year was not an all time great year in the ring.  

 

That's fair. When anyone places something on an all-time list they should be prepared to argue it. I definitely believe it was a great year for HHH and in my view he was one of the best workers in the company prior to the quad injury BUT if we are talking ALL-TIME years..  it deserves to be picked apart more closely just as any other "All-time" year. I wish I could go back and revisit the comments in the old thread.

 

In any case, I agree mostly with what Gregg said about the Iron Man match. It's by far my favorite of the 60-minute variety that WWE has produced. Great pace, smartly booked.. it's the only Iron Man match from WWE that I can go back and re-watch (maybe soon as I still have it on VHS).

[Brian Fowler]

Just off the top of my head (and I'm probably willing to play the Triple H match a week game, too.  Blackman, only if someone has a gun to my head) just in my view the street fight with Foley is either the best or second best match of both men's career, the Iron Man match is the second best of Rock's career (behind the 2001 match with Jericho that I pimped all the time as an absolute all-time classic), the LMS was amongst the best matches of Jericho's career, the Angle/Rock Triple Threat (which I just saw a couple months ago) is really good for all the circumstances already mentioned, the Angle and Benoit singles matches are both pretty good, but disappointing, the Benoit tv match was really good, the TAKA match is incredibly fun, and the Wrestlemania Main Event sucked so god damn hard.

[The Unholy Dragon]

We should just have contentious year/title discussions. I'm first in line when Cena's 2007 comes up as a GOAT discussion.

[TheVileOne]

Chris Jericho and HHH had one other singles match post Judgement Day on Raw that was pretty good.

[tbarrie]

"Missile" only applies when it's off the top though.

So a regular dropkick off the top is a "missile dropkick", but a Stampede dropkick off the top is a "top-rope dropkick"? That doesn't make much sense.

[Victator]

I think it is because the regular dropkick off the top looks more like a missile. I am only basing this off the move list from No Mercy. 

[tbarrie]

I think it is because the regular dropkick off the top looks more like a missile. I am only basing this off the move list from No Mercy. 

I'm not sure I accept Yuke's as an expert in wrestling nomenclature.

[Victator]

Ewwww not Yukes, AKI. They made the good wrestling games on N64. 

[tbarrie]

Ewwww not Yukes, AKI. They made the good wrestling games on N64. 

Okay, but being better at making games still doesn't necessarily make one a master taxonomist.

[Victator]

No, but I'm guessing that is where everybody got the terminology. Those games were huge during a big time in wrestling, so it stuck. 

[Dirty J.]

I want to add HHH vs Benoit from sometime early 2000/around No Way Out (It's an episode of Smackdown where every member of the Radicalz get a match for a contract).

 

Solid TV match with Haitch making Benoit look like gold. Sure he beat him, but dammit for a second it looked like Benoit could beat him.

[tbarrie]

No, but I'm guessing that is where everybody got the terminology. Those games were huge during a big time in wrestling, so it stuck. 

You think? I wouldn't think the number of wrestling fans who are into wrestling video games is all that huge, and surely most people who played the game never looked at the move lists.