HHH in 2000

[Cristobal]

I don't think it came off like you hated it, but the repeated carping about Jericho's size does have a weird tone, (though maybe it's just cuz I haven't read anyone who focuses on the size of wrestlers as much as you do since Jeremy Soria...)

[goodhelmet]

I can't write reviews for shit, next time you're getting a paragraph and some cat gifs.

 

I don't know if I agree with anything you said in the entire thing but that was what I was looking for out of you. 

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I don't think it came off like you hated it, but the repeated carping about Jericho's size does have a weird tone, (though maybe it's just cuz I haven't read anyone who focuses on the size of wrestlers as much as you do since Jeremy Soria...)

It made for some weird visuals, Triple H was too small to be a big dude and too big to work at Jericho's level in that match.

 

 

I can't write reviews for shit, next time you're getting a paragraph and some cat gifs.

 

I don't know if I agree with anything you said in the entire thing but that was what I was looking for out of you. 

 

There will be more, I might try and get another one up tomorrow if anyone has any suggestions. If not, I'll do the Benoit match.

[BatistaWasRight]

Please do Triple H vs. Rikishi!

[sydneybrown]

Did it come off like I hated it? I didn't hate it. I thought it was good just didn't think Jericho was the guy the 14 year old me loved.

 

I think you downplayed Jericho too much.  This was Jericho's match to become a star or not, and I feel he held his own, but it comes off like HHH was holding Jericho's hand the whole way.  If you don't think Jericho was great, that's fine.  When you bring it up every other sentence, it sounds like HHH was in there with Scott Steiner at the Rumble.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Please do Triple H vs. Rikishi!

 

Sure, I loved that match and I love Big Kish.

 

Did it come off like I hated it? I didn't hate it. I thought it was good just didn't think Jericho was the guy the 14 year old me loved.

 

I think you downplayed Jericho too much.  This was Jericho's match to become a star or not, and I feel he held his own, but it comes off like HHH was holding Jericho's hand the whole way.  If you don't think Jericho was great, that's fine.  When you bring it up every other sentence, it sounds like HHH was in there with Scott Steiner at the Rumble.

 

Jericho hasn't aged well. I'm also jaded of current Jericho so I can totally see that impinging on things.

[Matt D]

Triple H vs Chris Jericho -Last Man Standing Match Fully Loaded 2000.

 

I think the video package before the match is really well done. I don't remember too much of this stuff, to be honest, but one of the knocks against Hunter in general is that he didn't "make" too many people, and I realize at the time the entire internet was enamored with Jericho due to his 98 WCW run, so the idea that someone had to "make" him was probably considered absurd, but that's exactly what Hunter did here. This was set up with Jericho getting one over on him three times before he fell into the numbers game and a Horseman-Style Beatdown. From the looks of it, it was really, really good pro wrestling and allowed for the escalation that made a Last Man Standing match necessary. Hunter let himself be humiliated in order to get Jericho over as a fiery worldbeater, and it worked.

 

I don't think FSW gives enough credit to Jericho in the opening stretch. He brought a real fire and all of the stuff on the outside looked good. The fans completely buy it. If I had any critiques on him they'd be that the mounted punches on the inside were pretty weak and I would have loved to see some selling of the injury after the flying back elbow off the top, especially since that came right before Hunter started on the ribs. That could have been a really great overzealous moment leading to the transition. As for Hunter here, I think he was good at fighting back just enough. I didn't like his clothesline bumps at all. They looked terrible but he more than made up for it on the bump to the outside and the super stylized bump from the shoulder thrust into the ring.

 

I liked how FSW focused on the knee-usage instead of the bodypart work since that was an interesting way of getting at Hunter, but this is a match where it really pays off to talk about the rib-work. It was set up so well in the angle leading up to the match. The transition is pretty awesome as Hunter uses his usual reversal to the back body drop but does it to the ribs instead. They tease a little hope spot of Jericho immediately fighting back, but then Hunter drops him right on the rail and then the stairs and he doesn't really look back. His kicks on the inside are vicious. His shoulder thrusts are good. The image of Hunter rolling Jericho around the ring with the tape is pretty memorable. 

 

When it comes to bodypart work it's all about keeping it interesting and  believable by the person on offense and the selling by the person taking it. Hunter does a pretty good job of varying what he's doing (stomps, knee drops, kicks, knee lifts, the thrusts, the abdominal stretch w/ clubbering, etc), breaking it up a little bit with gimmicks (the tape choking, and the Stephanie slap, the suplex on the floor, grabbing the rope on the abdominal stretch, the ref pushing). I think maybe there are too many gimmicks actually. Jericho does a solid job selling the pain. He's no Ricky Morton but he has both the story to lean on and the fans behind him. He has a decent amount of hope spots that are logical (generally based off of him getting enough space due to rolling into the ring or Hunter arguing with the ref) and okay but really not milked enough to really get the fans really into them. Hunter's cut offs are good though, especially the lionsault counter. I don't think he executed the Stretch well at all but it almost didn't matter too much since it still looked painful on the midsection. It was noticeably weird however. The bodyscissors during the sleeper is extremely smart and plays into both the story of the match and the LMS gimmick (Steph doing the Daniel Bryan YES hand motions at each count is great). 

 

Then we shift into WWE storytelling mode. The key stretch is when Jericho gets up post Sleeper/Body-scissors and shows defiance leading into the super-mean Pedigree and then Jericho getting up again. There are parts of this I like: just how mean the Pedigree is, the crotch chop, Hunter hanging out on the corner arrogantly, Steph being pissed off during the post-Pedigree where she was jubilant on the post-sleeper one. Obviously the getting up from the Sleeper is a tease for the real moment, Jericho getting up from the Pedigree, but I think it might have worked better if he was in it for longer. The one major issue so far is that we haven't had enough time with Jericho in pain. Hunter's two submissions were ones that covered up his face and Jericho's body language hasn't quite been up to task. Anyway, I don't think he quite nails the "getting up at 9" moment with the right body language either. He's just sort of meandering towards the ropes as Hunter rushes out of the ring pissed off to get the chair that he kills Jericho with. We needed some blood out of Jericho's mouth or something here. Were they leading to some sort of ref strike gimmick or something? I forget. It seems weird that arguing with the ref in a NO DQ match would lead to two Jericho comebacks, including the big one; maybe if it was a special ref but whatever.

 

Jericho's low blow is really good for what it's worth. Very glad he went with that and not just a double leg takedown or back body drop. Jericho's chairshot on Hunter is huge, right in the middle of the ring with a giant noise. It had to be big enough to completely turn the match around and I think they frame it well Jericho sells excellently on his comeback and it lets Hunter almost get back in it a few times which is really good stuff. I think Jericho's offense is okay but sort of out of touch for the point of the match they're in. This isn't the part of the match where you want to see so much light, flying stuff, if that makes sense, even if it's done onto a chair. There's a bit of meandering once Hunter takes a powder too, until we get the slightly contrived ribs (execution issue. There wasn't the sense of Hunter aiming him) into the steps spot.

 

I like the consistency of Hunter trying to Pedigree Jericho on hard objects and this time the backdrop works and Hunter takes a big bump off the stairs. The double video monitor shot is pretty silly but it works for a double tease. I kind of like how they entered the match into an environment where the Spanish announce table was already busted.

 

Anyway, they head back into the ring and we get the Walls and the visual tap. I feel like Jericho needed more offense in his comeback to get to this point, to be honest. He had that one stretch but other than the chairshot I wasn't super happy with it. Hunter's shouting and body language is actually extremely effective here as was the rope stuff. We get the big Steph moment to break it, another mini rib transition which sets up the missed sledge hammer spot and I don't totally love how all this is laid out but I do like the high concept at least. It goes back to the over-gimmicked nature of the earlier part of the match. I think that comes into play here too. There are almost too many "moments." It starts diluting everything. Jericho gets to get up from the Pedigree, gets the tap, gets Step, gets a sledgehammer shot in (though one that's ultimately meaningless). etc.

 

And what was up with that kind of lame suplex finish? I think after the two attempts to hit a Pedigree on something, he should have just finished it with one on the table.

 

Alright, I think that Hunter did a lot of good work here and Jericho mostly held his own but both guys' had flaws (micro and macro) that hurt the match. I especially liked Hunter's bodypart focus. Very strong middle section. That said, I think the match was a little too clever for its own good when it could have been tighter and more primal with only a few changes. I'd call it bloated but with a lot of strong elements that didn't fully come together. 

 

I had come in thinking I'd be bored by Hunter's offense and that wasn't the case at all, though he did make some choices I didn't totally agree with. No, if anything the problem was big picture excess. It was still a pretty interesting match. 

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

See that is a review. A lot of what he said is what I wanted to say or tried to. Jericho's flying offence was the problem with the hateiness of the match, my bad.

[T.Rex-n-effeckx]

 

Can someone explain the argument being made here.Is it that 2000 was HHH's peak year for inring work?Is the argument that 2000 HHH was better than 2000 Kuroda, 97 DDP, 89 Luger, 92 Nikita, 2006 Booker T, 2001 Austin, 92Dustin, etc?

92 Nikita? What the hell? When did that become a thing?

 

It's not a thing.

Not sure if that would be Nikita's peak inring year.I'm not sure what Pitbull 1's or Fred Ottman's peak year was.

I wasn't sure and still not sure if point here is to say 2000 was HHH's peak year.Or if point is to say it compares favorably (wasn't a quality drop vis-a-vis) Austin's 99 or Steve Austin's 2001.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

 

 

Can someone explain the argument being made here.Is it that 2000 was HHH's peak year for inring work?Is the argument that 2000 HHH was better than 2000 Kuroda, 97 DDP, 89 Luger, 92 Nikita, 2006 Booker T, 2001 Austin, 92Dustin, etc?

92 Nikita? What the hell? When did that become a thing?

 

It's not a thing.

Not sure if that would be Nikita's peak inring year.I'm not sure what Pitbull 1's or Fred Ottman's peak year was.

I wasn't sure and still not sure if point here is to say 2000 was HHH's peak year.Or if point is to say it compares favorably (wasn't a quality drop vis-a-vis) Austin's 99 or Steve Austin's 2001.

 

Just that it was a Great Year. I don't think it has to be relative to anything.

[SirSmUgly]

OK, I thought that this was interesting, and I'm going to try a review. I don't think I quite know what I like and don't like about matches completely, so hopefully it doesn't turn into too much of a discovery thing and it isn't totally uninteresting. 

 

Triple H [c] vs. Rikishi - Smackdown 1/4/00

 

I'm not a HHH fan or a hater, really. I find his Flair/Race hybrid tribute act to be crappy compared to just watching Flair or Race, and he never held my interest as the ace heel of the promotion, but there are times when he really has a much better performance than his average. I remember this match as one of those performances, and I remember LOVING it when it first aired. I haven't seen it in a handful of years, however, so looking it again should be interesting.

 

HHH sells Rikishi's name being drawn as his opponent fantastically before the match starts. The dumbfounded, pissed-off look on his face as he glares at Howard Finkel for screwing up the rigged drawing is wonderful. 

 

HHH jumps Rikishi at the bell and beats him down in the corner, showing pretty good urgency and cementing the idea that Rikishi needs to be taken out quickly or HHH might be in for a world of hurt. They go outside and Kish ragdolls HHH, who sells pretty nicely. Loved the legdrop on the floor from Kish. It just looks brutal for some reason.

 

This part of the match early where they are outside the ring is pretty good, actually, as it just turns into a fight-for-your life brawl and they use the ring steps effectively. They go back inside and a couple reversals lead to a HHH knee to the face and a brief control section of the match which is highlighted by that signature spinning clothesline bump Rikishi always does. Kish gets control right back, however, and does a nice fat man splash in the corner and a Samoan drop that the crowd pops for. Rikishi has such awesome offense. Love his belly-to-belly and of course the Rikishi Driver. The crowd (and I) are going wild for Rikishi's offense. Banzai Drop gets two, and the crowd goes nuts. This is where 2.9s work, where a challenger with awesome offense that can credibly beat anyone gets soooo close to winning off of his big moves. 

 

They follow with a Rikishi Driver -----> Pedigree ----> back bodydrop sequence that gets a big pop. Nothing special, but man, the crowd really loves Big Kish. HHH, by the way, is awesome at selling offense when he wants to be. He is bouncing around nicely for Rikishi's offense. He also does a good job of juuuuuust barely getting the shoulder up after Kish connects with a superkick.

 

Now here's what I like. Stephanie interferes by sliding a chair into the ring and then running interference. HHH's chair shot to the head only gets two, though. I almost forgot myself a bit and popped like the crowd did when Kish kicked out. I remember thinking the chair shot was the end when I first watched this match in '00 too, so it was a pretty effective spot. HHH just gives up and blasts Kish in the face with a belt shot, getting DQed; then, he lays out Kish with chair shots, but Rikishi gets up almost immediately and chases HHH out of the ring.

 

OK, so some of my big criticisms about HHH in general are these things:

 

• He typically doesn't give enough to faces on offense when he wrestles them.
• He often doesn't act like his opponent is a legit threat. 
• He often has interminably long and boring control segments that are just painful to watch and that kill otherwise good matches (HHH/Goldberg at Unforgiven '03 comes to mind). 

 

I think this list helps to explain why I enjoyed this particular HHH match. This match was a sub-ten minute match, so it didn't have the overlong HHH control segment. Honestly, HHH selling every move from Kish like it just knocked him out dead was perfect. His facial expressions were also great at conveying that Kish was a serious threat, both before and during the match. The mixture of fear and hatred on his face as Kish kept coming after him post-DQ worked for me.

 

Basically, HHH taking Rikishi's offense and just hanging onto his belt through chicken-shittery was perfect. Rikishi looked like a world-beater and HHH got to play up being the Cerebral Assassin by realizing when it was time to just get out of dodge with the title. I don't love it as much as I did in context back in 2000, but it is a really smartly-worked match to me. There are very few 1-on-1 HHH matches that I would ever watch more than once, but I wonder if the ones that I would watch just cut out the long HHH control segments and feature good facial selling from Trips. I'll have to check that theory out sometime. 

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Triple H vs Rikishi Smackdown January 4th 2000

 

These are two of my favourite dudes, so expect no impartial observations. Big Kish was a potential main event star, and I loved everything about his rise to the top. This is where it started, and remember a few weeks after this match, at the Rumble, Kish had one of the all time great moments when he and Too Cool did the dance, then he cleaned them out. But yeah, this is the transition from Rikishi: jovial fat man, to Rikishi: will fuck you up.

 

These are also two top top entrance themes from the era too.

 

Triple H attacks first and DOWNWARD PUNCHES~! Rikishi in the corner. Kish does a great job in slowly turning from a mountain into a molehill as the attack wears on. Kish eventually gets out and hits a back body drop on Hunter. I forgot how great Hunter takes these, he basically goes over all rigid in this neat slow motion fall. Goddamn Rikishi just punched Hunter right in the mouth. Crowd audibly gasps at a Rikishi leg drop, goddamn I love this already. They brawl around the ring a bit, essentially banging each other off various tables, posts and things, before getting in the ring. KNEE BASED OFFENCE~! with the big knee smash. FUCK YES THE BIG RIKISHI CLOTHESLINE BUMP. That is so awesome, and works well with Hunter's speed/size. ASS BASED OFFENCE~! this match is everything I love about pro wrestling.

 

Kish hits a samoan drop, and man does he have a good snap to it. UP/DOWN. Boom. Hunter kicks out late, and the crowd reacts well, this is working well. Crowd is getting into this more and more after a bansai drop and a kick out. Hunter is reeling and looks totally out of his depth. Kish sets up the Rikishi Driver, Hunter escapes and attempts an awkward fat man Pedigree. Rikishi throws him over his back and the crowd is fucking going here. Can't stress this enough, this is the kind of reaction nobody gets in the current WWE, let alone a career curtain jerker. A superkick is sold neatly, Hunter is leaning one direction, eats the kick and spins out the other, rather than the traditional backwards fall you'd see from a Sweet Chin Music. Hunter kicks out again, barely. Steph slides a chair, Kish eats it unprotected... then kicks out! Crowd is really going now, unfortunately they do a belt shot DQ. Hunter gives him a couple of shots with a chair but Kish gets up. Hunter bails, looking terrified as Rikishi calls him back for more.

 

You know, this one is probably too short to be considered part of the "great year", and the ending sorta kills it as a stand alone match. However it's pretty great because Hunter basically gives Rikishi everything but the Pedigree, and Rikishi takes it all and then some. If they would have run this on PPV, I think it would have been better than the Jericho match and also made a bigger star out of Rikishi. Triple H is great at being a coward and a bully, and Rikishi brings it with everything. His moves are crisp, he doesn't really need to sell much but it works and it's believable, especially when the story is "what the hell will it take to beat this guy?"

 

Hunter moves around really well here, and Kish is a perfect opponent to play into his strengths. He can bump for Hunter's moves, and Hunter can bump for his, believably. But really the thing I took from this match is that there is nobody as good as Rikishi anywhere in WWE right now that could fill that role. I feel like Mark Henry is bigger than that spot, same with Show, and neither can move like Kish. It's a real shame actually, because if Rikishi had turned up today in 2000 shape, he'd be a dead cert main eventer. It reminds me of Umaga, of course. Big dude, super athletic, tons of physical charisma and badass offence.

 

Where was I? Oh yeah, Hunter was great at selling for Kish, and selling Kish himself. I love this match and as the ol' thunder stealer above me points out, it's an extremely well worked match. It certainly makes you want to see a rematch if nothing else, and can you say the same about anything like that today?

[Victator]

HHH is a great fat guy/giant worker.   

[SirSmUgly]

Haha, sorry FSW. I just really wanted to post about that match because I remember liking it so much. I didn't read far enough to see that you were going to write about it. My apologies.

 

I think the only place we disagree is on the DQ finish, which I actually think worked super-well and is something they should have recycled for the HHH/Tazz WWF Champ vs. ECW Champ match down the road, and that this is too short to be considered part of the great year. I think it's challenging to work an effective sub-ten minute match where both guys look like a trillion bucks and a rematch would me more than welcome, and HHH did his part in pulling it off. 

 

I think versatility is important in judging the output of a wrestler, and HHH shows his versatility here. It's a keeper if you want to bolster your point about HHH's '00 being great. 

[Victator]

There was this Smackdown where HHH needed Rikishi to lose on purpose and Kish refused. He was about to hit him with the sledgehammer when Haku walked in. "Is there a problem?""Uh. No, I gotta go."

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Haha, sorry FSW. I just really wanted to post about that match because I remember liking it so much. I didn't read far enough to see that you were going to write about it. My apologies.

 

I think the only place we disagree is on the DQ finish, which I actually think worked super-well and is something they should have recycled for the HHH/Tazz WWF Champ vs. ECW Champ match down the road, and that this is too short to be considered part of the great year. I think it's challenging to work an effective sub-ten minute match where both guys look like a trillion bucks and a rematch would me more than welcome, and HHH did his part in pulling it off. 

 

I think versatility is important in judging the output of a wrestler, and HHH shows his versatility here. It's a keeper if you want to bolster your point about HHH's '00 being great. 

 

Haha I was just kidding pal, I enjoy reading others opinions, specifically when they fit my own agenda. I enjoyed your write up too, and I liked your point about Hunter's control segments being boring, something I can keep an eye on.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

There was this Smackdown where HHH needed Rikishi to lose on purpose and Kish refused. He was about to hit him with the sledgehammer when Haku walked in. "Is there a problem?""Uh. No, I gotta go."

[Victator]

That's it!!!!Okay you are back on the good list. Just lay off Spidey in public. 

[Victator]

He shoulda asked Rikishi to get disqualified, that is more palpable to a proud man. 

[Brian Fowler]

Woah, I thought one match a week. Now I'm two behind.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

This is a quick one pal, no rush. I haven't even put up this week's Bonus Blackman.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Steve Blackman...

[Victator]

One of my dream matches is Steve Blackman vs Jerry Flynn. My favorite undercard WWF guy vs my favorite way undercard WCW guy. I don't know why it took so long to put him in the Hardcore division. Everything he did worked best in that environment. 

[DreamBroken]

The reviews got me to watch the Rikishi match too. Really love the pops for the nearfalls, awesome how into it the crowd was. Rikishi was amazingly over

[Overly Critical Man]

13 years later and I still think anyone kicking out of the Banzai Drop is bullshit.

That being said, Rikishi had only been in the company for about a month or so at that point and was getting hugely popular. It was the perfect showcase to building him up as a future main event player. The segments building up to the match were killer too. HHH usually smirks or laughs off other people, but he sold Rikishi as someone he didnt want to fuck with.