FEBRUARY 2016 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[Jiji]

The thing is Nate's post makes me feel a little guilty about the whole thing.  Like we have this guy who exhibited serious delusions and obsessive behavior in the Shield, but was protected there by the structure of the group and by following Rollins' orders.  Now he's on his own and we, the crowd, are egging him on to behave more an more wildly like a goof because we enjoy it...but it's really not good for him.

He is, potentially, a great tragic wrestling character.  Someone who's personality problems made him marketable, but who shouldn't have been anywhere near the "market" in question because it only led him to make a spectacle of his messed up self.

I mean, right now, he's basically getting huge cheers from us for throwing himself at Brock Lesnar and getting F5-ed over an over again and getting back up so we'll cheer for him again.  And somehow because we are cheering he thinks this is achieving something and maybe even thinks it's going to work. 

We are the villains in the Dean Ambrose story.  In a way, it plays off of that aborted angle he was going to do with Foley where he blamed him for making all these guys destroy themselves for the pop.  But now instead of being the crusader against that, he's just doing it, becoming more and more cartoonishly self-destructive the more we chant for him to.

 

Do it! It's right there!

[piranesi]

 

The thing is Nate's post makes me feel a little guilty about the whole thing.  Like we have this guy who exhibited serious delusions and obsessive behavior in the Shield, but was protected there by the structure of the group and by following Rollins' orders.  Now he's on his own and we, the crowd, are egging him on to behave more an more wildly like a goof because we enjoy it...but it's really not good for him.

He is, potentially, a great tragic wrestling character.  Someone who's personality problems made him marketable, but who shouldn't have been anywhere near the "market" in question because it only led him to make a spectacle of his messed up self.

I mean, right now, he's basically getting huge cheers from us for throwing himself at Brock Lesnar and getting F5-ed over an over again and getting back up so we'll cheer for him again.  And somehow because we are cheering he thinks this is achieving something and maybe even thinks it's going to work. 

We are the villains in the Dean Ambrose story.  In a way, it plays off of that aborted angle he was going to do with Foley where he blamed him for making all these guys destroy themselves for the pop.  But now instead of being the crusader against that, he's just doing it, becoming more and more cartoonishly self-destructive the more we chant for him to.

 

Do it! It's right there!

 

 

 

[Herzog]

The sad spectacle of society being devoured by the dark nature of man can be found in the madhouses and sanitariums.  But It is not the madmen that reveal our true natures.  It is the system that relies on them.  The ugly brutality of the subconscious does not reveal itself in what is called "madness," but rather in the banal reactions of the spectators and officials who pride themselves on being normal while committing atrocities that would revolt an insect.

It has been that way for millennia.  The medieval crowd chants and dances as the town fool prepares to go into his routine.  What violence will he inflict upon himself today does not matter, for it will be eclipsed next week.  Is he mad?  He has found his role.  He performs his illness so that the others might pretend to be inoculated from it.  Not understanding the nature of mental illness, the rabble can feel clean if they can project their fears onto this bumbling oaf.  Even the most vicious of animal societies does not include such spectatorship among its brutalities.  

But it is the oaf who is enlightened.  He knows, if nothing else, the rules of madness that he must perform to appease the blood grinning hyenas who believe themselves his betters. The ritual is endless and pointless, like all life.  Dean Ambrose will gouge himself with a knife and the chanting masses will applaud.  Both are diseased.  But one is aware of his disgusting nature while the other is pridefully ignorant.  Neither benefits and in the end it is better to be among the dimwitted throngs not sleeping in a trough of feces. [/Herzog]

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I reviewed Sunny's book (and her porn, the review of which was heavily praised by THE BOARD over at f4wonline.com) You can check em out here:

http://jojomellon.blogspot.com

Spoiler: The book sucks, but does contain one HILARIOUS story about HBK and a certain fetish he had.

Bless you, good sir. That review had me laughing out loud.

For some reason, 'She blows The Big Guy' had me damn near off my seat.

Tammy is blowing Ryback now also?

She wishes

As for the Young Bucks, I have seen them in good matches with the Ants in Chikara and London/Kendrick. I think they understand basic wrestling, but do schtick to get over with some audiences. Which they really have to do because they are too twerpy to get over wrestling.

There is no reason to fix Ambrose, he is really over. Most of the booking problems WWE has now come from breaking up the Shield. There was no good reason to do it and they are all worse off for it. Except maybe Rollins, I think that title reign hurt him. But its hard to judge.

I hate to say an injury will be good for somebody, but in Rollins case, WWE can hit the reset button with him, so he can come back as a huge babyface. The night he vacated the title, he got a huge face reaction and thank you Rollins chants. That being said, they'll try to have him come back as a heel when nobody wants to boo him, like Bryan with the Wyatt's. There was no good reason to split The Shield. If it had to be done, Roman was the one that should have sold out to The Authority.

[Matt D]

Wasn't the plan HHH vs Babyface Rollins at Mania?

[J.H.]

 

It's going to the Undertaker and Kane's other brother.......Larry, or as he is known in the family...the normal one.

Larry is going to bring in their cousin, Balki Bartokomous as his tag partner.

 

Don't be ridiculous!

 

James

[joseph2112]

 

I hate to say an injury will be good for somebody, but in Rollins case, WWE can hit the reset button with him, so he can come back as a huge babyface. The night he vacated the title, he got a huge face reaction and thank you Rollins chants. That being said, they'll try to have him come back as a heel when nobody wants to boo him, like Bryan with the Wyatt's. There was no good reason to split The Shield. If it had to be done, Roman was the one that should have sold out to The Authority.

 

This is the truth. Take two guys. One has a bunch of experience and a flashy offense, the other is relatively green with only a few power moves and not very good on the mic. 

 

Choose one to turn heel and one to turn face. 

[Victator]

 

 

 

 

I reviewed Sunny's book (and her porn, the review of which was heavily praised by THE BOARD over at f4wonline.com) You can check em out here:

http://jojomellon.blogspot.com

Spoiler: The book sucks, but does contain one HILARIOUS story about HBK and a certain fetish he had.

Bless you, good sir. That review had me laughing out loud.

For some reason, 'She blows The Big Guy' had me damn near off my seat.

Tammy is blowing Ryback now also?

She wishes

As for the Young Bucks, I have seen them in good matches with the Ants in Chikara and London/Kendrick. I think they understand basic wrestling, but do schtick to get over with some audiences. Which they really have to do because they are too twerpy to get over wrestling.

There is no reason to fix Ambrose, he is really over. Most of the booking problems WWE has now come from breaking up the Shield. There was no good reason to do it and they are all worse off for it. Except maybe Rollins, I think that title reign hurt him. But its hard to judge.

I hate to say an injury will be good for somebody, but in Rollins case, WWE can hit the reset button with him, so he can come back as a huge babyface. The night he vacated the title, he got a huge face reaction and thank you Rollins chants. That being said, they'll try to have him come back as a heel when nobody wants to boo him, like Bryan with the Wyatt's. There was no good reason to split The Shield. If it had to be done, Roman was the one that should have sold out to The Authority.

 

Sometimes promotions break up teams just to break them up. I look at WWE trying to break up the Outlaws in 99 and it was pointless. People wanted these guys to stay together. When they finally reunited, Billy Gunn looked so happy to be back with Road Dogg. He called being near the main event a shark tank. 

With the Shield there was no where to go with it. The biggest thing you could do was a Shield triple threat and somehow WWE avoided doing that. 

They made Rollins a heel and that is not his strong suit. 

Dean is over but is out of place in this era. They should revive the Hardcore title and let him and Harper go nuts. There was no violence in the old Hardcore division that was beyond PG. Not like they used barbed wire or something. 

If you kept the Shield together and let Roman win it as a member, there would be no backlash. 

[piranesi]

If you kept the Shield together and let Roman win it as a member, there would be no backlash. 

 

 

One of them winning the title should have been what tore them apart.

 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I hate that because of the singles success of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart, WWE won't keep teams together because now each team has to have a breakout singles star. The Hardy's were able to pull it off, but it took a while. Not all guys are meant to be singles wrestlers. I love tag team wrestling and wish WWE still did. 

[Victator]

And mentioning the Outlaws made me remember I'm still watching WWF 1999 and I'm at the point they reunited DX in an attempt to keep Triple H as champion over. 

That turn pretty much killed Pac and the Outlaws. They were never near as over again, even if the Outlaws were very good heels and Pac was too good at being a heel.  X-Pac was really over as a face before the turn, but by February he was too far gone to turn back. 

[SirSmUgly]

I read Piranesi's Werner Herzog impression in Paul F. Tompkins's Werner Herzog voice. It adds quite a lot to the proceedings. If they can bring Tompkins in to be a dispassionate documentarian turned concerned manager based on Herzog and pair him with Ambrose, that would be booking only to me, but as extremely small consolation to them, it would be Bryan-level over in my house.

[GOTNW]

Apologies if this is in the wrong thread, but Meltzer is reporting that someone high up in WWE, that has never swerved him, has stated Undertakers WM opponent is not an active member of the roster.

Thoughts?

Who's currently not an active member that is worthy for the spot? Angle, Goldberg, Sting. Anyone else?

1) Meltzer also clarified it's not NXT either (so don't start the Joe stuff)

2) Hollinger joked that it would be Taker/Liger and I am so fucking pissed that that match won't happen

Liger would be cool but I am ok with Hakushi coming for revenge as well.

[Matt D]

Taker/Mayweather is the desperation play.

[RandomAct]

Fuck you guys for making me want Taker vs Mil Muertes. Are Mil's dark magics more powerful than The Undertaker's now?

[GOTNW]

Is Abyss still in TNA

[Nice Guy Eddie]

Whatever they do with Taker, keep him away from poor Bray. There's no need for Bray to job in a third separate program to Taker. He's already never going to recover from Cena and the previous two Taker programs. 

[Craig H]

Fuck you guys for making me want Taker vs Mil Muertes. Are Mil's dark magics more powerful than The Undertaker's now?

 

Since I started watching LU, I love Mil. I think he'd work super well in WWE, but I'd hate to see him anywhere other than LU.

[Victator]

Whatever they do with Taker, keep him away from poor Bray. There's no need for Bray to job in a third separate program to Taker. He's already never going to recover from Cena and the previous two Taker programs. 

I don't really think he was damaged at all. He has one of the better records in WWE. Losing to Cena and Undertaker is not going to damage anyone.

[nate]

I hate that because of the singles success of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart, WWE won't keep teams together because now each team has to have a breakout singles star. The Hardy's were able to pull it off, but it took a while. Not all guys are meant to be singles wrestlers. I love tag team wrestling and wish WWE still did.

But it's always seems to me that every tag team (not singles guys teaming up) has one guy who legit seems like he could be a singles star. Hawk, Ricky Morton, Sean Royal, Bobby Eaton and so on.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

It isn't exactly a great way to build someone that is supposed to be in your long term plans. The Wyatt Family is up there with the Invasion, The Nexus, and the follow up to Punk's pipebomb in terms of blown opportunities.

[Victator]

I'm not really sure what Nexus would have done even if they won the Summerslam match. None of those guys were ready for main events. It didn't help that they kept contriving ways to keep them from winning direct fairish confrontations.

 

The angle when they attacked the legends and nobody helped because that fucking laptop said they would be fired or some weak shit. That fucking laptop was the worst thing WWE has ever done. No pay off whatsoever. I feel certain in the five thousand months it was GM, someone could have tracked down an IP address. Or just outright said no til a living breathing person admitted they were the GM. 
 

I got off topic, but holy shit that laptop sucked. 

I can't really imagine the shit with Punk's bad promo going much different. He got to be champion for way too long, he probably shouldn't have lost to Triple H. But even if he had won, it still would have been an awful feud with horrible promos. Just a different douche would have won. 

The Invasion was fucked the second Shane McMahon showed up on Nitro. Then refucked when Stephanie was revealed as ECW owner. I can't even imagine the thought process that lead to that. Maybe a combination of parental pride and underlings too chickenshit to say it is a bad idea. 

I guess to get back on point, Bray losing to Cena and Taker is not bad, Especially compared to that shit. 

[Nice Guy Eddie]

Listen to the crowd silence once "Broken Out in Love" stops playing. The crowds don't care about the Wyatt's. He's not presented as being on the same level as Cena; Taker; Brock; Roman, but he easily could have been something special. They turned him into just another guy. He's the worst booked cult leader character in wrestling.

[worldcupfever]

Liger would be cool but I am ok with Hakushi coming for revenge as well.

 

 

Invoking Hakushi always gets me interested.

[Jiji]

[Herzog]

The sad spectacle of society being devoured by the dark nature of man can be found in the madhouses and sanitariums.  But It is not the madmen that reveal our true natures.  It is the system that relies on them.  The ugly brutality of the subconscious does not reveal itself in what is called "madness," but rather in the banal reactions of the spectators and officials who pride themselves on being normal while committing atrocities that would revolt an insect.

It has been that way for millennia.  The medieval crowd chants and dances as the town fool prepares to go into his routine.  What violence will he inflict upon himself today does not matter, for it will be eclipsed next week.  Is he mad?  He has found his role.  He performs his illness so that the others might pretend to be inoculated from it.  Not understanding the nature of mental illness, the rabble can feel clean if they can project their fears onto this bumbling oaf.  Even the most vicious of animal societies does not include such spectatorship among its brutalities.  

But it is the oaf who is enlightened.  He knows, if nothing else, the rules of madness that he must perform to appease the blood grinning hyenas who believe themselves his betters. The ritual is endless and pointless, like all life.  Dean Ambrose will gouge himself with a knife and the chanting masses will applaud.  Both are diseased.  But one is aware of his disgusting nature while the other is pridefully ignorant.  Neither benefits and in the end it is better to be among the dimwitted throngs not sleeping in a trough of feces. [/Herzog]

 

...

 

That was beautiful, man. Bravo. Not only funny and Herzogian, but TREWTH as well.

[Victator]

Listen to the crowd silence once "Broken Out in Love" stops playing. The crowds don't care about the Wyatt's. He's not presented as being on the same level as Cena; Taker; Brock; Roman, but he easily could have been something special. They turned him into just another guy. He's the worst booked cult leader character in wrestling.

People buy him on the same level as Reigns and he looked credible fighting Brock and Hunter in the rumble. 

He should have gotten more heat on Taker before Survivor Series. But he got some good shots in during the match. 

 

Taker is the one guy you can lose to a thousand times and look like a threat. I had a bigger problem with Undertaker tapping at Summerslam and losing the Cell match. Than anything Bray Wyatt has done. 

I think the worst thing was wasting the first Braun/Show match on free tv. Braun is the first credible giant they have had in years and they do his first singles match on TV. 

Really Taker, Show and Cena are booked a million times worse than Bray. The company has tried its best to make a Cena loss worthless.