The Nature Boy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Was WCW salvageable after Russo's dismissal in January? I'm trying to imagine what WCW 2000 might have looked like with a competent booker. I don't know if it was salvageable long term with Turner selling out, but they were bringing in a lot of young talent and seemed to be ready to push them. OK, I typed that before I actually looked at WCW's PPVs in 200s. They really did everything they could to ruin their product. The cruiserweight division was being retooled, but that is pretty much the only part of the roster that was worth anything going forward. The main event was Nash, Jarrett, Booker T, Sid, and Steiner. Everyone of those guys outside of Booker is either past their prime or stale. The midcard is essentially a collection of elevated jobbers in gimmicks that made the audience take them even less seriously. Bill Demott was General Hugh G. Rection, Private Stash, The Kiss Demon, etc. were taking up a lot of PPV space. The Cat, who is a guilty pleasure, Norman Smiley, who is another guilty pleasure, and Terry Funk were on almost every show. Those guys were tons of fun, but no one post 2000 was buying a ticket to watch any of those guys. They would have had to rebuild almost every wrestler on the roster and even then I don't know how many of those guys were worth salvaging. If they had a decent product, they may have found a new TV home or if they hadn't lost $100 million in one year, they might have been able to find an advocate in AOL Time Warner who would have advocated for them to remain on the books. I can't imagine that a red hot WCW would have been left to die. Time Warner ate some of the bigger contracts after the buyout anyway. And I don't think that Jeff Jarrett was terrible and some of the guys who were past their prime in the ring like Sting and DDP could still go. You also had Goldberg, who was still incredibly over. There were parts there, you just needed a good booker who knew how to put those parts together. If Time Warner bails, you might be able to a buyer who would take it on if you could show them a good product. As Dixie Carter proves, there are idiots who will bankroll a wrestling company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCM Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Was WCW salvageable after Russo's dismissal in January? I'm trying to imagine what WCW 2000 might have looked like with a competent booker. I don't know if it was salvageable long term with Turner selling out, but they were bringing in a lot of young talent and seemed to be ready to push them. OK, I typed that before I actually looked at WCW's PPVs in 200s. They really did everything they could to ruin their product. The cruiserweight division was being retooled, but that is pretty much the only part of the roster that was worth anything going forward. The main event was Nash, Jarrett, Booker T, Sid, and Steiner. Everyone of those guys outside of Booker is either past their prime or stale. Scott Steiner was awesome in 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Was WCW salvageable after Russo's dismissal in January? I'm trying to imagine what WCW 2000 might have looked like with a competent booker. I think it was, but whoever owned it would have to understand ahead of time that they would never again challenge WWE for supremacy. Scott Steiner was a ton of fun as the lead heel and the crowd was just begging for him to turn so they could cheer for him because he had all his catch-phrases and stuff, I'm not saying he would have had Austin/Rock levels of stardom, but I think he would have carved a nice little niche for himself/minor celebritydom if WCW had just ran with him (I understand he had his foot injury in 2001 that probably would have kiboshed that anyways but...). You had a pretty exciting upper-card younger guys like Booker T, Lance Storm, Goldberg, Mike Awesome, Kanyon, Wrath and Hugh Morrus (Say what you will about him, WCW somehow backed their way into making him a super-over babyface in 2000/01-era WCW) with some WCW standbys like Jarrett, Sting and Flair still around. Then you had a whole schwack of young guys primed to break out (Sean O'Haire, Mark Jindrak, Chuck Palumbo, Mike Sanders, etc.) with the right gimmick/push (NBT wasn't really it...). Plus, you had a bunch of cruiserweights who were getting too good/too over to be stuck in that division and could have/should have been moved up the card (Mysterio, Kidman, Chavo, Noble, Helms, Moore, Skipper) with newcomers taking their place (Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles, Kid Kash, Jason Jett/EZ Money and Michael Modest all turned up on late-era WCW and could have been pegged as the next wave of CW division) while a lot of the old guard was starting to drift away (Hogan had left the previous summer, Luger was on the way out, Nash/Page seemed to be scaling back, Savage was gone). Plus with ECW dying around that time, you could have brought in guys like RVD, Sabu, etc. before they went to WWE. I think further cuts would have been needed. The announcing was at an absolute nadir and probably needed to be all let go and replaced, and there were still enough guys who couldn't or wouldn't go anymore that needed to be let go (Rick Steiner, Konnan, Duggan, Douglas etc.). In terms of actual wrestling, with the right booker, you could probably have a pretty entertaining show. In terms of ratings/buy-rates, it would probably be pretty lean for a a while until you coaxed old WCW fans back with a promise of better wrestling/less nonsense than WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I almost wonder if it would have benefited WCW to cancel Nitro in early 2000 and just focus on Thunder and Saturday Night as their top shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Was WCW salvageable after Russo's dismissal in January? I'm trying to imagine what WCW 2000 might have looked like with a competent booker. I don't know if it was salvageable long term with Turner selling out, but they were bringing in a lot of young talent and seemed to be ready to push them. OK, I typed that before I actually looked at WCW's PPVs in 200s. They really did everything they could to ruin their product. The cruiserweight division was being retooled, but that is pretty much the only part of the roster that was worth anything going forward. The main event was Nash, Jarrett, Booker T, Sid, and Steiner. Everyone of those guys outside of Booker is either past their prime or stale. Scott Steiner was awesome in 2000. Correction....Scott Steiner was, is, and will always be awesome. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Was WCW salvageable after Russo's dismissal in January? I'm trying to imagine what WCW 2000 might have looked like with a competent booker. I think it was, but whoever owned it would have to understand ahead of time that they would never again challenge WWE for supremacy. Scott Steiner was a ton of fun as the lead heel and the crowd was just begging for him to turn so they could cheer for him because he had all his catch-phrases and stuff, I'm not saying he would have had Austin/Rock levels of stardom, but I think he would have carved a nice little niche for himself/minor celebritydom if WCW had just ran with him (I understand he had his foot injury in 2001 that probably would have kiboshed that anyways but...). You had a pretty exciting upper-card younger guys like Booker T, Lance Storm, Goldberg, Mike Awesome, Kanyon, Wrath and Hugh Morrus (Say what you will about him, WCW somehow backed their way into making him a super-over babyface in 2000/01-era WCW) with some WCW standbys like Jarrett, Sting and Flair still around. Then you had a whole schwack of young guys primed to break out (Sean O'Haire, Mark Jindrak, Chuck Palumbo, Mike Sanders, etc.) with the right gimmick/push (NBT wasn't really it...). Plus, you had a bunch of cruiserweights who were getting too good/too over to be stuck in that division and could have/should have been moved up the card (Mysterio, Kidman, Chavo, Noble, Helms, Moore, Skipper) with newcomers taking their place (Christopher Daniels, AJ Styles, Kid Kash, Jason Jett/EZ Money and Michael Modest all turned up on late-era WCW and could have been pegged as the next wave of CW division) while a lot of the old guard was starting to drift away (Hogan had left the previous summer, Luger was on the way out, Nash/Page seemed to be scaling back, Savage was gone). Plus with ECW dying around that time, you could have brought in guys like RVD, Sabu, etc. before they went to WWE. I think further cuts would have been needed. The announcing was at an absolute nadir and probably needed to be all let go and replaced, and there were still enough guys who couldn't or wouldn't go anymore that needed to be let go (Rick Steiner, Konnan, Duggan, Douglas etc.). In terms of actual wrestling, with the right booker, you could probably have a pretty entertaining show. In terms of ratings/buy-rates, it would probably be pretty lean for a a while until you coaxed old WCW fans back with a promise of better wrestling/less nonsense than WWE. How many of those guys were viable draws post 2000? My point wasn't that those guys couldn't be salvaged, but that those particular parts might not be worth the effort salvaging. Steiner was fun to watch, but I don't think he was going to turn their business around. DDP, Sting, and Goldberg were still over, but I don't think they were the type of guys to turn a company around and move them into the next decade. They killed all of their stars, doing the work to get all of those guys back to a level where they could have made money would have taken at least another year. I just don't know if it was worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I really don't think WCW was salvageable by the Summer of 99, and arguably much earlier than that. Every scenario has to start with some completely unrealistic way to get Hogan out of the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I really don't think WCW was salvageable by the Summer of 99, and arguably much earlier than that. Every scenario has to start with some completely unrealistic way to get Hogan out of the picture. This is so true. I looked through every PPV card from 2000 to their close and I don't know why anyone thought that any of those cards was a good idea. Google it if you have some time and then tell me how to turn that around. Ralphus was in a PPV match...Jericho was already gone for over a year. It was just nonsensical bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiji Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Ralphus getting bigheaded and having women around the back was probably the second best part of Jericho's first (and by far best) book. (Second only to Vampiro's politicking = loin cloth.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromatagon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 You turn it around by first doing a PPV with the live execution for those responsible for the last year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I really don't think WCW was salvageable by the Summer of 99, and arguably much earlier than that. Every scenario has to start with some completely unrealistic way to get Hogan out of the picture. This is so true. I looked through every PPV card from 2000 to their close and I don't know why anyone thought that any of those cards was a good idea. Google it if you have some time and then tell me how to turn that around. Ralphus was in a PPV match...Jericho was already gone for over a year. It was just nonsensical bullshit. I'll do you one better than that, I've actually watched every WCW ppv from 99-01 in its entirety within the last year. Believe it or not, people actually understate how bad WCW was in 2000. WCW in 2000 was not some talent-rich promotion that was undermined by some bad booking and pushing the wrong guys... That was WCW in 98/early 99. Of course there was plenty of bad booking and pushing wrong guys in 2000, but make no mistake, there was absolutely no star-talent there either. Some competent wrestlers, sure. Star-talent? None. There was a small group of guys who were a few years past their star prime or a couple years before it (with no one credible they could go over to get there), and a whole lot more washed-up old dudes, and greenhorns. Just a total wasteland where no one had a chance, much less the company in aggregate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 TIL P.N. News was Mantaur's cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I remember the last few months of WCW being massively better and moving in a positive direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 I think it was just that by then they knew it was Dead Promotion Walking so instead of all the stupid shit that had come to define WCW, it was just folks going out and having matches and feuds with minimal booking, which it turns out is a much better product than what the company had been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuerrillaMonsoon Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 From about Fall Brawl 00 onwards, WCW was good viewing from top to bottom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Does WWE not do the second screen thing anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 From about Fall Brawl 00 onwards, WCW was good viewing from top to bottom. I dare you to watch Sin or Superbrawl Revenge, then type this again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 There was a lot of clutter and crap in 2001 WCW; it's just that what came before was so bad that the good (cruiserweight division getting back on track, Scott Steiner as top heel even though many of the matches weren't that great) seems even better than what it was and outshines the bad. On the other hand, you still had to suffer through garbage like Road Warrior Animal being a surprise member of the Magnificent 7 and Bam Bam Bigelow feuding with Shawn Stasiak and stuff of that nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
george young Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 The last month of WCW was a cherry on top of a pile of shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph2112 Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Booking aside, I think you have to look at the business end of it. They were hemorrhaging so much money and it was mostly because of guaranteed contracts. Those weren't getting fixed in any way, so when you look at it as a matter of money coming in vs money going out, I think it was over no matter how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickmaniwa Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Here's a shill for anyone that lives in the Kentuckiana area. IWA return to action this Friday night in Clarksville, IN. If you haven't heart, TPI returns on 12/11. TWO SIDES GO TO WAR FRIDAY SEPTEMBER 25TH COLGATE GYM 230 E. MONTGOMERY ST CLARKSVILLE, IN DOORS OPEN- 7:15 BELL TIME - 8:00 ALREADY SIGNED: MAIN EVENT "The Iron Demon" SHANE MERCER defends his newly won IWA Midsouth World Title against the man he beat for it, "The Hood Ninja" HY-ZAYA in Hy-Zaya's rematch. "The Monsta" KONGO KONG takes on REED "BY GOD" BENTLEY. #1 CONTENDER'S LADDER MATCH JOHN WAYNE MURDOCH vs. IAN ROTTEN vs. JOSH CROW vs. AMERICAN VIKING vs. ? vs. ? The winner gets a match vs the IWA World Champion (either Mercer or Hy-Zaya after 9/25) at the "19TH ANNIVERSARY SHOW" on 10/9 "MEAN" MITCH PAGE & JC ROTTEN will take on "THE PHOENIX" DALE PATRICKS & making his official return to IWAMS action, "NEVER SAY DIE" JOSH CRANE. PLUS MANY MORE OF YOUR IWA FAVORITES IN ACTION! TICKETS PRICES FOR THIS EVENT - Floor seats will be $15 and general admission will be $10! Kids 13 and under will receive $3 off their tickets! Please note- some of you have been to the Colgate gym... general admission seating is auditorium seating. There is a big difference in a floor seat and a GA seat and there will be strict enforcement of seating. https://www.facebook.com/events/651486878324694/ ======================================================================= THE 2015 TED PETTY INVITATIONAL (#TPI15) FRIDAY DECEMBER 11TH COLGATE GYM 230 E. MONTGOMERY ST CLARKSVILLE, IN DOORS OPEN- 7:15 BELL TIME - 8:00 ALREADY SIGNED TO APPEAR: 1) KONGO KONG 2) HEIDI LOVELACE 3) TIMOTHY THATCHER 4) JONATHAN GRESHAM 5) MASADA 6) CHRIS HERO 7) 2 COLD SCORPIO 5 MORE SPOTS LEFT! Whoever the IWA MS World Champion is will get an automatic spot into the tournament. ADVANCE TICKETS- Front Row- $25 Floor- $20 GA- $15 Whatever tickets remain will go up in price by $5 at the door, but I am telling you now that tickets are limited! You can get them now via PayPal at [email protected]! https://www.facebook.com/events/909191559117991/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuerrillaMonsoon Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 From about Fall Brawl 00 onwards, WCW was good viewing from top to bottom. I dare you to watch Sin or Superbrawl Revenge, then type this again. Sin was a good PPV. Chavo/Helms is a fantastic opener, the cruiserweight tag is good, the six man tag enjoyable, the hardcore match was fun. Even the Insiders/Thrillers, Douglas/Demott were OK. Main event is awful. Starrcade is probably the trainwreck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVanderlay Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 I'd want to get hammered with post-Born Again Christian Rick Rude, to hear all the stories of wild partying and the deep regret he felt over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go2Sleep Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 From about Fall Brawl 00 onwards, WCW was good viewing from top to bottom. I dare you to watch Sin or Superbrawl Revenge, then type this again. Sin was a good PPV. Chavo/Helms is a fantastic opener, the cruiserweight tag is good, the six man tag enjoyable, the hardcore match was fun. Even the Insiders/Thrillers, Douglas/Demott were OK. Main event is awful. Starrcade is probably the trainwreck... Reno/Vito, Cat/Sanders, Luger and Buff ending Goldberg's career when a fan maced him, the terrible main with the flat swerve that falls even flatter because Sid was crippled for the finish, unclean finishes to the last 4 matches... I mean a couple fun matches is pretty good by dying days WCW standards but it is in no way "good top to bottom." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted September 22, 2015 Share Posted September 22, 2015 Heh. "Unclean." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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