The Unholy Dragon Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I think the thing I really enjoyed most about this was the ambition. It deliberately goes in new and unique character directions from the comics and leans hard into the crazy superheroics of the world. Superman being controversial and feared fits in an era of cynical pissbabies making memes about how adulthood is acknowledging Joker makes more sense than Batman because he said some stuff critical of society in the Dark Knight. People worship fucking Tyler Durden in Fight Club. People say Superman is borong because he has no flaws...shit, my friends thought that when I was in high school. I fully recognize that this Superman isn't the one we want, but he fits the times. A good man with absolute power who is feared for having that power. Like Perry said, it isn't 1938 anymore. But Batman being in his forties with a 20+ year career? Wonder Woman having been around since World War II? Eisenberg playing Lex as a scared, frail millenial technocrat in basically the perfect reimagining of Lex for this era? Lex figuring out both heroes secret identities first? Batman not intentionally killing anyone, but seeing a future where he does without thinking and being so afraid of it that he's willing to kill someone to prevent it? Then stuff like the Doomsday fight and the main event, as well as the Knightmare sequence and all the overt Darkseid teasing within, the other hero teasers, the amazing ground view of the Superman/Zod fight, Batman flying around and chokeslamming dudes in this weird mix of Nolan, the Arkham Games, and the comics, and probably my favourite reimagining of the Wayne murder in ages... This movie was bananas. It is unapologetically a crazy fucking superhero film. And while a bunch of the MCU films have been objectively better, they always feel like they're throwing in paramilitary vibes and shit to soften the superhero blow and make it more palatable. This has Batman throwing Chokeslams and clinging to roofs like his namesake. I enjoyed it so much, flaws and all. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 minute ago, APO said: You'd have to be incredibly naive to think that Bats didn't kill anyone in this movie. It's the comic book movie thing of the past decade plus where if they didn't die on screen, then we assume maybe they lived, maybe they didn't.. who knows, who cares. This is literally every comic movie there is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 He just has that much faith in Batman. Good for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Unholy Dragon Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I mean, Arkham Knight argued Batman doesn't kill when I literally parked the Batmobile's tire on someone's head. And that's not considering how often in the comics someone gets thrown down like a twenty foot drop and just happens to not spin and land on their neck. Or that a bad concussion/series of concussions could kill someone. Shit, Daredevil S2 has Daredevil drag someone over a ledge to fall face first onto concrete stairs with Daredevil having zero control over how he lands not five minutes after he's telling the Punisher he doesn't kill people. You have to take these things with a grain of salt and actually suspend your disbelief. They certainly didn't have him cold murder anyone like Burton's Batman and everyone but me loves that take, so hey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 2 minutes ago, Matt D said: He just has that much faith in Batman. Good for him. Jon says to Terminator. "Don't kill anyone". Okay, he doesn't for the rest of the movie. But we assume a mini gun and grenade launchers are a smart idea to use against the police.. but hey the little thing pops up that says "no casualties" so it's cool. And I fucking love T2. It's my favorite action movie ever. But does it always make perfect sense, hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I totally buy into the "Bruce Banner is secretly controlling the angles that the Hulk does things from so no one dies" logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Jon says to Terminator. "Don't kill anyone". Okay, he doesn't for the rest of the movie. But we assume a mini gun and grenade launchers are a smart idea to use against the police.. but hey the little thing pops up that says "no casualties" so it's cool. And I fucking love T2. It's my favorite action movie ever. But does it always make perfect sense, hell no. Except, The Terminator is a Cyborg who could theoretically just wound all of those people, and even then the director decided it was a good idea to put something there to make sure we knew he didn't kill someone. Batman spent the entire movie plotting a murder, committing murder, and Alfred even seems worried that he's going around murdering people. Bruce even justified it by saying, "We were always criminals." The movie had way more faults than Batman being a mass murderer, but he was a mass murderer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 That's true about Daredevil also. I can't count how many times he's outright punting guys in the head and punching them in the face with full force not one punch, but like ten punches. But they don't die from brain injuries because it's a comic. I have no issue with it. It's a huge leap to think Daredevil wouldn't have killed someone but I buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 This entire conversation reminds me of that Chappelle skit when they asked him what kind of evidence he would need to convict R. Kelly. So unless you see the people die, get an autopsy, be issued a death certificate, and are buried and/or cremated, you'll never be convinced that they died. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APO Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 25 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said: It's the comic book movie thing of the past decade plus where if they didn't die on screen, then we assume maybe they lived, maybe they didn't.. who knows, who cares. This is literally every comic movie there is. Really? -________________- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buy Me a Burrito Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 This is an amazingly mediocre hill Niners has chosen to die upon. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playa Shunna Ver 3.0 Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Just caught up on this. Disappointed that my DVDVRMB brethren are not feeling it. Just from the trailers it looked like a shit show. Still gonna catch it down the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligerbusa Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Zack Snyder Quote “I tried to do it in a technical way. There’s a great YouTube video that shows all the kills in the Christopher Nolan movies even though we would perceive them as movies where he doesn’t kill anyone. I think there’s 42 potential kills that Batman does! Also, it goes back and includes even the Tim Burton Batman movies where this reputation as a guy that doesn’t kill comes from. So, I tried to do it by proxy. Shoot the car they’re in, the car blows up or the grenade would go off in the guy’s hand, or when he shoots the tank and the guy pretty much lights the tank [himself]. I perceive it as him not killing directly, but if the bad guy’s are associated with a thing that happens to blow up, he would say that that’s not really my problem. A little more like manslaughter than murder, although I would say that in the Frank Miller comic book that I reference, he kills all the time. There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun… I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun. One shot. Of course, I went to the gas tank, and all of the guys I work with were like, ‘You’ve gotta shoot him in the head’ because they’re all comic book dorks, and I was like, ‘I’m not gonna be the guy that does that!’” So yeah, people died but he's not going to directly shoot a guy or stab them in the head (shoulder is fine). Anyway, I saw the movie. It's obviously flawed but I was highly entertained as were the friends I went with. The movie was fucking crazy, man. WB has huge balls, there's a lot depending on this movie but they've already got two tie-ins in the can and they're filming JL in three weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Niners, the difference is that Batman is a character who has a core value of "prevent murder at all costs and don't use guns because my entire life has been shaped by watching the murder of my parents and the subsequent PTSD I experienced". No one in the Marvel movies is that specifically limited. Sure, Tony Stark would rather not kill anyone, but preventing murder is not what drives him to be a hero. Captain America was a soldier. This is apples and oranges. Also, does Snyder really say in that quote above that the idea that Batman doesn't kill comes from the Tim Burton movies, or am I miss understanding that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligerbusa Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Honestly, he probably doesn't remember the Burton movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brysynner Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I think he's saying people who say Batman doesn't kill never watched the movies because movie-Batman has killed people in every movie he's ever been in. Including the Burton films, so Snyder doesn't get why people are bitching about Batman killing when he's not the first person to have Batman kill a bad guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 And he's flatly, factually wrong on claiming that Batman deliberately kills people all the time in The Dark Knight Returns. Even when he does indeed shoot that one guy with a gun, they still specifically say that he shot him in a non-lethal fashion. Which is bullshit, humans aren't reliably capable of that sort of precision (unlike, say, A ROBOT TERMINATOR WITH A TARGETING SYSTEM WHICH EXPLICITLY ALLOWS HIM TO WOUND WITH CONFIDENCE) but at least the effort was made. It sounds like, in the new movie, no such effort was made at all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig H Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 You guys are exhausting all of my likes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said: who cares You. A lot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 To be fair, I blame Frank Miller a lot more than I blame Niners. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I wanted an entertaining movie with an awesome Batman, awesome Wonder Woman and something interesting to lay the groundwork for Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman and Justice League and I got that, the movie has a ton of issues and I discussed them already. I have no idea what Burrito and the like are talking about here when they say I loved it and will defend it to the death lol That's crazy... I'm only defending the nitpicking on Batman. Nobody has stepped up and replied to the Daredevil comments by myself or Dragon.. he's punting people in the head, throwing them down the stairs and he does have a no kill policy.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 There's a big difference between anything Daredevil ever does and shooting people with a machine gun, a grenade launcher, and a flamethrower. The guaranteed lethality rate of the latter is so much higher than punching/kicking/throwing someone that they're not a good comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 More importantly than that, Snyder has said Batman kills people in this movie, so I'm not sure what the argument is. When the director makes the claim... At any rate, I have a ticket for seven o'clock tonight and I'll weigh in then. I'm not optimistic, but there's never been a Superman or Batman movie I've skipped, so let's hope for the best not worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brysynner Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 3 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: More importantly than that, Snyder has said Batman kills people in this movie, so I'm not sure what the argument is. When the director makes the claim... At any rate, I have a ticket for seven o'clock tonight and I'll weigh in then. I'm not optimistic, but there's never been a Superman or Batman movie I've skipped, so let's hope for the best not worst. It's miles better than the Mid-90s Batman movies so it's nowhere near the worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I physically had my head in hands for the first 30 minutes or so because I couldn't believe they were blowing it this badly. At one point, I realized I was actually looking at the theatre wall and giving the movie side eye. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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