Infinit Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Big E was ON FIRE on twitter last night "@BigELangston: Proof that @KaitlynWWE is a violent thug: 6. That mesh top she wears was cut from a net she uses to illegally capture lobster." I 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Z Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Does this mean that The Z is insane or not? I can't tell. It probably means I'm on the same intellectual level as Balls Mahoney. Or maybe I was just thinking of that episode of the Simpsons, in which Mr. Burns gets booed and he asks Smithers, if they are chanting Boo-urns. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Do people not realize that there is a significant protest element to fans chanting "Albert," and they aren't just illustrating that they've seen a wrestler before? I agree with the shit the bed and now you lay in it idea, but when the fans reject everything they get served, the cook's at fault. The WWE needs a lot better writing and the paying customers have every right to demand that. You don't get mad at the fans when they boo the home team and you don't get mad at the fans when they tell you your product is garbage. Like it or not, if you're doing a thing with American audiences, they're going to have their say. It's actually one of the best parts of wrestling once you get past the why-can't-people-like-the-things-I-like issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Why would anyone protest Albert? He's great? Brodus us useless. If they could just have two dudes who can move like Albert they'd have a nice hoss team that wouldn't have to do comedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooker Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 It's a general protest of the WWE product, I'd say. Although, in Albert's case, that gimmick was some of the freshest, most pungent dogshit the WWE has tried to serve up in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 How do you figure? It's a classic gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 A lot of it was how half-assed they promoted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I think the vignettes should have ran longer. Also they could have put together some video packages both from his time in WWE and from New Japan (They've licensed footage before). Putting him against Cena so soon was a mistake. They waited months before putting Umaga against DX and Cena. Was Umaga the last thing WWE did not fuck up? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Miner Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Like it or not, if you're doing a thing with American audiences, they're going to have their say. It's actually one of the best parts of wrestling once you get past the why-can't-people-like-the-things-I-like issue. I hate that fans are a part of the show now. The signs, the "what" during Mark Henry promos, the guys in CM Punk shirts chanting "Husky Harris." It isn't only annoying when it happens during something I like. They do invite it though by having obvious plants in the crowd for reaction shots and trying to start chants that they want on TV. It seems noticeable to me that wrestlers don't know how to work a crowd anymore. Only a small group with strong instincts/smarts and charisma get reactions; or more more specifically build a reaction. Even they can't always get the appropriate reactions. No surprise though. Just throw on an ROH match and watch the "this is awesome" chants in the first minute of the match after an arm drag. That TNA PPV in 2012 in Nashville was uncomfortable to watch the guys were so clueless how to work a crowd. Fan reaction does effect show quality and leaving it completely in the hands of the fans to react is asking for trouble. If it were, as you say, just fans having their say it would be one thing. That isn't really the case though. You have crowds that react to everything one night and nothing the next night. TNA is a good example of this since for some reason they would get live crowds on TV and dead crowds at PPVs often when doing Impact Zone tapings. I just don't see how the crowd sitting on their hands during a 3 and a half star match one night. Followed by chanting for Chyna a few days later can be seen as a good thing. I guess I shouldn't specifically blame the fans. Was the promotions that empowered them. I just still view it like watching a movie or going to a play. Don't really find the audience being involved in one of those types of shows all that appealing either. It is like watching amateur night at the Apollo now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Was Umaga the last thing WWE did not fuck up? I remember a lot of fans on here being royally, deeply offended by Umaga playing a "savage" character. I remember a bunch of folks going "It's a good thing Samoa Joe didn't come to WWE, because this is the gimmick he'd be saddled with". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Yeah but we are not judging by what the dumbasses thought. By the time he feuded with Cena, it was a full success. When I was eight years old, Blackjack Lanza told me to chant "Red Rooster" at a Huntsville taping. When it failed to catch on, he made me go sit down in my section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimo Necro Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 The ultimate solution would be that no wrestler should be allowed to change their name....EVER... Actually, would be great if Cena got a "Pro-to-type, Pro-totype" chant, just once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 It seems noticeable to me that wrestlers don't know how to work a crowd anymore. Only a small group with strong instincts/smarts and charisma get reactions; or more more specifically build a reaction. Is part of this that the writers now rely on talking rather than good story to get people over? The wrestlers shouldn't have to lift all the weight. If the story is good, a short reaction promo is all that's needed, but if you're whole popularity scale is based only on who is the most clever smartass, then you rely on 20 minute vlog promos and you end up with feuds like Cena/Rock where the whole story is "Did you hear what he said!!!???" "Yeah! But did you hear what HE SAID BACK!!!????" OMG WHAT WILL SOMEONE SAY NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!. "If you need to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." Tuco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Does mookiegana have a spreadsheet showing the levels of smart fans in the crowd over the few years? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cole Miner Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I think the vignettes should have ran longer. Also they could have put together some video packages both from his time in WWE and from New Japan (They've licensed footage before). Putting him against Cena so soon was a mistake. They waited months before putting Umaga against DX and Cena. The ring gear and overall look was a disaster as well. I don't know if gimp diapers exist. If they do it looks a lot like his gear at the time. I remember a lot of fans on here being royally, deeply offended by Umaga playing a "savage" character. I remember a bunch of folks going "It's a good thing Samoa Joe didn't come to WWE, because this is the gimmick he'd be saddled with". I bet Samoa Joe thought that at one point as well. They were getting decent buy rates in his matches against Angle around the same time. Getting bitch slapped by Kevin Nash was probably the moment when reality hit. Is part of this that the writers now rely on talking rather than good story to get people over? The wrestlers shouldn't have to lift all the weight. If the story is good, a short reaction promo is all that's needed, but if you're whole popularity scale is based only on who is the most clever smartass, then you rely on 20 minute vlog promos and you end up with feuds like Cena/Rock where the whole story is "Did you hear what he said!!!???" "Yeah! But did you hear what HE SAID BACK!!!????" OMG WHAT WILL SOMEONE SAY NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!. The talking does have to play a factor. Mindset coming into the match is something to consider. It is certainly less of a concern when things are over. I meant getting reactions during the match only. By engaging the crowd rather than working the camera. Which actually makes a lot of sense and this should have been obvious to me before. It might be just how much television they do now. By working towards the hard camera they are being put in a position to fail since that is where the empty seats are hiding on the smaller shows and all the seats that are tarped off. The people they need to engage at eye level to start building a reaction might not even be there at all times. Seems like there are a lot of factors. I wonder if how things are taped actually plays a noticeable role. Will have to watch more handhelds to get an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Only think that should have changed with the gear, was he should have wrestled in the mask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Z Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Couldn't you say the "E-C-Dub" chants were an early precursor to this phenomenon of fans chanting something to show how smart they are and remember someone from a different context? Every single guy that had a cup of coffee in ECW received E-C-Dub chants, when they had a match in the WWE in the 2000s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 when the fans reject everything they get served, the cook's at fault. These types of smarks reject anything that didn't appear in ROH. They are the worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I think the ECW chant was a sign of respect because ECW was awesome and fans of ECW just wanted to say, "Hey, we saw you there busting your ass." If people chanted "Tito Santana" at El Matador or "Ricky Steamboat" at The Dragon it would be like the ECW chants. Chanting Husky Harris at Bray Wyatt is like chanting "Pee Pants" at your brother at his graduation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 If people chanted "Tito Santana" at El Matador or "Ricky Steamboat" at The Dragon it would be like the ECW chants. Chanting Husky Harris at Bray Wyatt is like chanting "Pee Pants" at your brother at his graduation. But, that second example is a good reason maybe the chants aren't that bad. I mean, fuck Vince for rapackaging Ricky Steamboat of all people as if his past never existed. He's Ricky Fucking Steamboat and we know he's Ricky Fucking Steamboat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 Tensai was a great example of someone doomed by the 50/50 midcard booking. You can't bring in a monster and make people take him seriously with that going on. You can't bring him in and have him work midcard guys, because then he has to lose half his matches and is immediately "just another one of the boys."So, what's left? Have him squash the same jobbers that Ryback and Brodus squashed? Everyone knows that means nothing. Everyone squashes those guys. So, what's left? The only way to even try to get him taken seriously then is to jump him right up to Cena...and then he's jobbed out ASAP because...Cena.Without the willingness to let people climb the midcard and beat everyone there, or to have feuds end decisively with one guy moving up and another down, a monster like Tensai was doomed from the start. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I'm playing devil's advocate really. On one hand I think it's shitty to chant Husky Harris. On the other hand that's what they get for trotting them out there as a guy named Husky Fucking Harris. But on the other hand should we shit on Bray Wyatt, when he's clearly found a character he can work with. It's not his fault he was Husky Harris. Shouldn't guys have second chances to get something right? What if we never forgave the Undertaker for being Mean Mark. Or Kane for being Issac Yankem. Or Fake Diesel. If Bray Wyatt is doing something good on TV let's not punish him for Vince's fuck ups. Chanting Husky Harris wasn't a dig at Bray, but it comes off like that on TV, and it mucks with the atmosphere. Let the guy get over. Then send letters to your congressman and state officials saying how you think it was shitty that he was given the name Husky Harris to begin with. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 What you are asking for seems impossible, like some super-responsible fandom where everyone is not only reacting but trying to guage how best to help the good guys (the workers) or how to send the right message to the bad guy (Vince). That's like trying to enforce the rules of March Madness. Wrestling is pretty unique in the crowd interaction. It is something that would kill most other types of theater because they don't know how or can't respond to it. It's a huge wild card in this type of show. Thing is, that is the logical result of how the company alternately ignores or uses crowd reactions to change things or force things through. In a way Vince has left the door open to the notion that crowd response can be martialed to affect things (Fandango's push maybe?) but at the same time he fucking hates the crowd for not doing what he wants them to. This board is kind of the same. The crowd is ruining everything! But the thing is, they are the only truly real thing in the show. The one thing you can't book totally and can't fake (at least until post production and Coliseum Home Video). They are the reality that the bookers have to work through. I don't know where I'm going with this. But, there is probably a way in which coming to terms and rolling with "the crowd" without getting pissy about them is the most important step in being a professional wrestler. But it's not a step I have to take because I'm not a professional wrestler...so fuck the crowd. Or not.... Goddamn it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I thought the old Chikara fans were good at "playing along" and cheering for the faces and booing the heels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeRose Posted July 13, 2013 Share Posted July 13, 2013 I just don't want to see this amazing character/angle get Tensaied because of a bunch of stupid smarts. THis is more annoying than the "Whats" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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