Raw 12-15-14

[scraylo187]

Either way it sucks and continues to prove that black guys and most minorities working for Vince are either going to be savages, happy clappy pimps, or thugs.

 

I honestly he has a triangle with those as the points on a wall and throws a dart to create their characters.

[mco543]

If they turn them heel they need to reveal they're members of Bo Dallas' cult.

[supremebve]

Either way it sucks and continues to prove that black guys and most minorities working for Vince are either going to be savages, happy clappy pimps, or thugs.

 

I honestly he has a triangle with those as the points on a wall and throws a dart to create their characters.

Their exact gimmick should be them saying this post, and refusing to participate in any of these same ol' tired tropes.  They don't need to be the "New Nation," whatever that means, they need to be just regular dudes, who won't deal with that bullshit.  Making them the New Nation is kind of putting them in the same close-minded box that being a savage or a pimp puts them in.  Just three black dudes who are smart, gifted athletes, who just want to be smart, gifted athletes. 

[piranesi]

Oh, to be a fly on the wall at the meeting where someone went all-in on the idea that Big E doing a "sweaty" gimmick was a gold mine, a mine fulla gold. Bless their hearts, they do try so hard.

 

Seriously, their TV direction and particularly their announcing gives me less and less of a reason to watch every week... and I've been a fan for 30 years.

 

Was that a "writer's room" thing or a "They said it as a throwaway joke in a promo and Vince heard it and started screaming at Cole that it's their new thing in the middle of the match" thing?

 

I kind of still think "Big Red" was the 2nd type and I wonder about this too.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Michael Cole's acting when Heyman and Rollins shook hands was hilariously terrible: "Are y-y-y-y-you telling me that Heyman and R-R-R-R-Rollins were in ca-cahoots?" It was like Porky fucking Pig was in the booth.

[Uncle Coaster]

 

Seriously, their TV direction and particularly their announcing gives me less and less of a reason to watch every week... and I've been a fan for 30 years.

 

I'm not quite there, but I can see myself rounding the corner.  I'm torn between the fact that I like most of the characters and overall development, but the announcing makes it brutal and some of the details in the storytelling is baffling.  I still enjoy it more than I don't, but they seriously need to refresh some stuff starting with the way they handle the announcers.  I was a Jerry Lawler fan for a long time as a kid and I've heard Cole call some good matches, but they way they are today is just so unlikable that it's hurting the show for me.  

 

I believe they should split the announcing crew into a two-man team on the ramp that are your storytellers.  They talk over the in-ring promos, the entrances, recaps, etc.  Then you have a two-man team at ringside who only talk bell-to-bell.  They are your serious guys.  That way, WWE can focus on the entertainment that they love to do, but can still highlight the in ring talent when it matters.  

[Curt McGirt]

I swear there was an old match where the heel kept complaining about the sweat on his opponent and had the ref towel him off. Might've been Japanese. That would be a great spot for a heel to steal against Big E. 

[Overly Critical Man]

New Day might as well be coming out to Zip a Dee doo Dah with how ridiculous the gimmick is.

[Pete]

 

 

Seriously, their TV direction and particularly their announcing gives me less and less of a reason to watch every week... and I've been a fan for 30 years.

 

I'm not quite there, but I can see myself rounding the corner.  I'm torn between the fact that I like most of the characters and overall development, but the announcing makes it brutal and some of the details in the storytelling is baffling.  I still enjoy it more than I don't, but they seriously need to refresh some stuff starting with the way they handle the announcers.  I was a Jerry Lawler fan for a long time as a kid and I've heard Cole call some good matches, but they way they are today is just so unlikable that it's hurting the show for me.  

 

I believe they should split the announcing crew into a two-man team on the ramp that are your storytellers.  They talk over the in-ring promos, the entrances, recaps, etc.  Then you have a two-man team at ringside who only talk bell-to-bell.  They are your serious guys.  That way, WWE can focus on the entertainment that they love to do, but can still highlight the in ring talent when it matters.  

 

 

I could see them doing a "sideline reporter" gimmick with Renee Young/Byron Saxton giving updates on ringside action the announcers/viewers aren't picking up on. Injuries, manager strategies etc. Pretty sure New Japan did that at one point.

[ingrsco]

If they turn them heel they need to reveal they're members of Bo Dallas' cult.

 

Wait...where is Bo?

[Pete]

 

If they turn them heel they need to reveal they're members of Bo Dallas' cult.

 

Wait...where is Bo?

 

 

Injured.

[Fallacy!]

What the fuck is going on with Chris Jericho's hair.

[scraylo187]

The hell was that Rusev segment?

 

HEY YOU ARE A WHORE AND YOU ARE A SMELLY CAB DRIVER WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA HERE IS MY FRIEND TO FIGHT YOU

 

jesus

[JohnnyJ]

Maybe I just live in a bubble, but I don't get why the New Day gimmick would be considered racist. They're just a group of faces getting a nice push.  You may not like the gimmick, but everything about the New Day has been done tastefully and respectfully. Everything doesn't have to be critically viewed as offensive.

 

The only underlying racist thing about it I see is that three guys who happen to be african american were grouped together. 

 

But using that logic, the matadores and the lucha dragons are also racist. The Big E/Mark Henry teamup was also racist. As were the Usos when they were teamed with Tamina because they were all Samoan. I would also take offense to the New Hart Foundation because they were all grouped together because they were Canadian.  

[Victator]

Except for Pillman, Bulldog and Anvil.

I've liked New Day since they debuted, they feel like a real team and seem to like being together. Have really appreciated the double team finishers.

[Curt McGirt]

I was pissed that Lana didn't retort with a comment about Jericho's old topknot when he dissed her hairstyle. C'mon, that was right there for the taking!

[supremebve]

Maybe I just live in a bubble, but I don't get why the New Day gimmick would be considered racist. They're just a group of faces getting a nice push.  You may not like the gimmick, but everything about the New Day has been done tastefully and respectfully. Everything doesn't have to be critically viewed as offensive.

 

The only underlying racist thing about it I see is that three guys who happen to be african american were grouped together. 

 

But using that logic, the matadores and the lucha dragons are also racist. The Big E/Mark Henry teamup was also racist. As were the Usos when they were teamed with Tamina because they were all Samoan. I would also take offense to the New Hart Foundation because they were all grouped together because they were Canadian.  

I didn't say it was racist, I said it was out of touch and disingenuous, but let's not pretend that them being black isn't the reason they're dancing and happy.  A couple of months ago they had something interesting that was relevant to what was going on in society, and they killed it for something uninteresting and irrelevant.  I actually love them together, and especially like their finisher.  I just wish they let them be characters that have a trait other than happy to be there.  They talk about how these guys don't go for the brass ring, but it is mostly they handcuff them so they can't lift their arms. There is a history of the black guys on the roster being dancing, happy, babyfaces that no one ever takes seriously.  My point is that it would be much more interesting if they did the exact opposite and actually state that they aren't going to be dancing and happy, they are there to be taken seriously as wrestlers.  It would be the first interesting thing they've done with any of those guys since they've been there, and they started to do it until they didn't.

[jstout]

Michael Cole's acting when Heyman and Rollins shook hands was hilariously terrible: "Are y-y-y-y-you telling me that Heyman and R-R-R-R-Rollins were in ca-cahoots?" It was like Porky fucking Pig was in the booth.

Rollins' promo afterward in Festus from "Gunsmoke" voice: "We wuz in cahoots all along! YEE HAW! We don't like that there John Cena 'cause he gets his salsa from New York City!"

 

Heyman: "New York City?"

[JohnnyJ]

 

Maybe I just live in a bubble, but I don't get why the New Day gimmick would be considered racist. They're just a group of faces getting a nice push.  You may not like the gimmick, but everything about the New Day has been done tastefully and respectfully. Everything doesn't have to be critically viewed as offensive.

 

The only underlying racist thing about it I see is that three guys who happen to be african american were grouped together. 

 

But using that logic, the matadores and the lucha dragons are also racist. The Big E/Mark Henry teamup was also racist. As were the Usos when they were teamed with Tamina because they were all Samoan. I would also take offense to the New Hart Foundation because they were all grouped together because they were Canadian.  

I didn't say it was racist, I said it was out of touch and disingenuous, but let's not pretend that them being black isn't the reason they're dancing and happy.  A couple of months ago they had something interesting that was relevant to what was going on in society, and they killed it for something uninteresting and irrelevant.  I actually love them together, and especially like their finisher.  I just wish they let them be characters that have a trait other than happy to be there.  They talk about how these guys don't go for the brass ring, but it is mostly they handcuff them so they can't lift their arms. There is a history of the black guys on the roster being dancing, happy, babyfaces that no one ever takes seriously.  My point is that it would be much more interesting if they did the exact opposite and actually state that they aren't going to be dancing and happy, they are there to be taken seriously as wrestlers.  It would be the first interesting thing they've done with any of those guys since they've been there, and they started to do it until they didn't.

 

 

But I would keep in mind that the earlier incarnation of the gimmick was likely a response to that Atlantic article. Then there were articles calling out the original gimmick as being lazy and racist. 

 

I do agree that creative is out of touch and seem to have a minor obsession with dancing gimmicks and I don't know how much of that has to do with race. Fandango has a dancing gimmick nobody cares about. Adam Rose also has a dancey gimmick nobody cares about. Hell, even Zayn is doing some ska dance as he comes to the ring because he's just a cool guy who loves to dance. 

[MGFanJay]

New Day might as well be coming out to Zip a Dee doo Dah with how ridiculous the gimmick is.

I like to think that Vince was channel-surfing, came across TV One, and saw Amen's opening title sequence and truly realized how much black people love them some church. It's not so much a racist gimmick as it is very racially...coicidental...JBL throwing in little nods like "boy, THEY sure are happy!" doesn't exactly help it either.

[DJ Hero Morganti]

New Day might as well be coming out to Zip a Dee doo Dah with how ridiculous the gimmick is.

I like to think that Vince was channel-surfing, came across TV One, and saw Amen's opening title sequence and truly realized how much black people love them some church. It's not so much a racist gimmick as it is very racially...coicidental...JBL throwing in little nods like "boy, THEY sure are happy!" doesn't exactly help it either.

Off topic. My great grandfather was on amen.

[piranesi]

If the three guys have charisma and chemistry, and I think they do.  It just seems kind of dumb they need an old fashioned "job/hobby" gimmick instead of just being three young funny dudes who talk shit to each other and like to one-up eachother in the ring and travel together.

 

 

Let them have whatever style they want and it's likely to be more in line with what someone in the teens or 20s would recognize and respond to than making them...gospel...scholars???  WHATTHEFUCKAREHTEY!!?!!!?!!??

 

Forcing them into this fictional persona...which, unlike even "Repo man" or fucking "Canadian Mounted Royal Police Officer" happens to literally not even be a persona that exists anywhere in the world, is bizarrely old fashioned thinking but not racist.

 

But...having the only bizarre nonexistant persona you can think of for three black men in their 20s to be "something about gospel singing" is, while not horrifically hurtful, it's pretty dumb...in the same way that it's probably racist to assume that the black guy in line in front of you at the grocery store is listening to Della Reese and getting ready for a big block barbecue where all the kids will be break dancing and all the old people will be praying and making offerings to a statue of Sydney Poitier.

 

Like, it's not the worst stereotyping crime in the world, but seriously stop anyway.

[JohnnyJ]

Don't forget that Big E. sweats a lot. That was the finishing touch to the gimmick. 

[Overly Critical Man]

If the three guys have charisma and chemistry, and I think they do. It just seems kind of dumb they need an old fashioned "job/hobby" gimmick instead of just being three young funny dudes who talk shit to each other and like to one-up eachother in the ring and travel together.

Let them have whatever style they want and it's likely to be more in line with what someone in the teens or 20s would recognize and respond to than making them...gospel...scholars??? WHATTHEFUCKAREHTEY!!?!!!?!!??

Forcing them into this fictional persona...which, unlike even "Repo man" or fucking "Canadian Mounted Royal Police Officer" happens to literally not even be a persona that exists anywhere in the world, is bizarrely old fashioned thinking but not racist.

But...having the only bizarre nonexistant persona you can think of for three black men in their 20s to be "something about gospel singing" is, while not horrifically hurtful, it's pretty dumb...in the same way that it's probably racist to assume that the black guy in line in front of you at the grocery store is listening to Della Reese and getting ready for a big block barbecue where all the kids will be break dancing and all the old people will be praying and making offerings to a statue of Sydney Poitier.

Like, it's not the worst stereotyping crime in the world, but seriously stop anyway.

If they wanted them to have a religious aspect to their gimmick, they should've made them all Shaolin Monks. Because...those guys are badasses.

[piranesi]

You know, if Big E. was just a guy hanging out with his friends, and wearing normal clothes, it would probably be pretty funny if he kept showing up in fine shirts trying to style and every time sweated through them backstage and ruined them and got pissed.

 

Big E. backstage online shopping for clothes and being really excited bidding on a great red silk shirt and getting pissy when everyone was trying not to laugh and then SHOWING UP THE NEXT WEEK IN HIS FINE SILK SHIRT...and trying not to sweat.  Carrying a little USB fan with him.  Finding out their promo is delayed to the 2nd hour and getting mad.  taking the shirt off and airing it out just to have the promo moved up so he has to rush out while trying to button it up...then having all the buttons wrong when he goes on camera...and then looking down when the interview is over to see two huge pit stains already there and the shirt all crooked.

 

That's how you do a sweating gimmick!