WWE Raw 9-22-14

[Greggulator]

Man there are some miserable folks watching wrestling. It was a fun show. Could've been better, but whatever.

 

Yes. Wrestling IS fun. I really wish people like us -- who LOVE wrestling more than anything else, pretty much -- would stop playing armchair booker and doing Vince McMahon co-splay and just enjoy this stuff as much as possible. The WWE has continued to have so many great matches. They have so many awesome characters. I don't pretend to know what's "best for business" or who is getting buried and the like.

Legit, if a wrestling fan didn't care about the backstage noise and gossip and didn't know it existed and watched the Daniel Bryan Saga from SummerSlam-to-WrestleMania, that storyline is pretty much flawless and the best. The ball kept getting taken away from the people's hero (and the hero the current nerdy-dude ComicCon fanbase can relate to more than anyone else) by the evil corporate masterminds who want their chosen guys to be the face of the company. Bryan got sidetracked along the way by the rising evil cult leader who said Bryan should enter the darkside in order to learn how to get what he wants, before finding a way to counter his ploy (despite a shocking Royal Rumble loss). He then figured out a way to corner The Authority on his own terms -- by having civil disobedience, and eventually winning the big strap.

Along the way, it gave us a terrific series of matches (Bray/Bryan, the Elimination Chamber, about 50,000,000 other things I'm forgetting) and moments (Bryan ending Raw on top of the cage, the Occupy moment, the SuperDome all doing The Yes! chant, etc.).

That's awesome.

But instead, we get so focused on the supposed machinations of backstage gossip. Why? Who gives a crap? What's the benefit of knowing 9th hand rumors?

[offspring515]

At one point Ambrose reached into his jacket while sitting on the chair and I was convinced he was going to pull out a flask.

[Curt McGirt]

So who's the bunny? Nice bounce-oriented offense, btw.

 

EDIT: ^ I thought the EXACT SAME THING offspring!

[evilwaldo]

I thought it was a great show outside of NIkki.  

[JCM]

Who are these "so many awesome characters"? Dean, Brock, and Rollins are the only main roster guys I give a shit about. They have a bunch of awesome talent in pointless matches every week filling time.

 

Sheamus/Cesaro is fucking great, but neither guy is going to be any higher or lower on the card as a result. Uso's trading wins with Dust Bros doesn't get anyone more over. Miz and Ziggler going 10 wins each in a 20 match feud does nothing for either guy.

 

The frustrating thing is the talent is there. The fact that NXT shows how it should be done every week from a character and story telling perspective makes the main show look even worse.

[Patrick B.]

Well, in retrospect, WWE made the wrong decision.  They should have gone with Batista(the movie star who could have drawn new viewers to the show) rather than Daniel Bryan(who was having injury issues as far back as January).

[cool arrow]

The commercial for the vidyagame (^TM and © Hank Hill) with "Bawitdaba" amused me greatly.  Nothing says "new generation" quite like a song that was released in 1998.

[NintendoLogic]

Sorry, but I emphatically reject the notion that I should be so grateful to WWE for turning out a steady supply of three-star matches that I should withhold all criticism, no matter how legitimate, and shut up and enjoy it.

[Dolfan in NYC]

So who's the bunny? Nice bounce-oriented offense, btw.

 

EDIT: ^ I thought the EXACT SAME THING offspring!

Supposedly it's bouncing (lol) between 3 guys:  Zach Ryder, Justin Gabriel, and Sami Zayn. 

[Hagan]

Honestly, the booking is no better or no worse than it usually is. I wish someone could point to a magical time where the booking of entire show was fine (and no one dare say the Attitude Era). The wrestling is usually great. Is there a lot of skippable shit? Sure, but week in and week out there's plenty of entertaining stuff.

 

I don't see the stuff about new guys being buried. It seems like people won't be happy unless guys like Cena, Orton, Sheamus etc are just turfed from the company. Ambrose, Rollins etc. are perfectly fine and have established upper card spots. Not everyone can win the World title in some epic blow-off and have a year-long run (and people even complained when Punk did that).

[Greggulator]

Criticizing the product is absolutely fine and worthy.

But base criticism around what's seen on TV. Don't base it around the supposed "NEWZ~!" stuff. Who knows what's truth or not. Yet that always comes up when people discuss what the actual consumption part of the product looks like.

When was the last time you saw in a TV/Film review some sort of reference to the various insider trading that goes into making entertainment? That stuff goes on constantly. It ultimately does not matter one bit in terms of actually analyzing what's good and what's bad about the actual piece of artwork that was made.

 

[piranesi]

I'd maintain there's a big difference between wrestling and film (and maybe t.v.) which is that we only see a film/show when it's "done."  Wrestling is never done.  It is going on forever in real time.  The script is not written.  Not even for what happens later in the same day.

 

So curiosity about what's going to happen takes a different form.  If you care about the story, you are in a unique situation of knowing that the story is being created at the same moment you are watching it or online gabbing about it.

 

Wrestling also reacts more directly to crowds than does film of t.v.  Yeah, failures at the box office can change patterns for future projects, but cultivating a direct physical response in real time from live crowds and then altering the story as it's happening to follow the weight of that is also pretty unique.

 

In other words, the "real world" of the audience is part of the process and is in direct communication with the "real world" of the back room.  All while the "fake world" of the show is going on in between them.  Given that, I don't see how anything shouldn't be a part of it.

[Greggulator]

Who are these "so many awesome characters"? Dean, Brock, and Rollins are the only main roster guys I give a shit about. They have a bunch of awesome talent in pointless matches every week filling time.

 

Sheamus/Cesaro is fucking great, but neither guy is going to be any higher or lower on the card as a result. Uso's trading wins with Dust Bros doesn't get anyone more over. Miz and Ziggler going 10 wins each in a 20 match feud does nothing for either guy.

 

The frustrating thing is the talent is there. The fact that NXT shows how it should be done every week from a character and story telling perspective makes the main show look even worse.

 

I'd venture to say the guys you like and don't like might be based on taste, which is your preference. But I think there following people are awesome/very good: Dean, Brock, Rollins, Cena, Heyman, Steph/HHH, Cesaro, The Wyatts, The Usos, The Dust Brothers, Bo Dallas, Zeb, Roman, AJ, Paige. There are probably a few others I'm forgetting. And there are people who put me to sleep like R-Truth or The Miz or The Bellas.

As far as where people rank on the card, let's look at where people stood at NOC.

The main event is Brock and Cena. Is there any reasonable argument at all from any standpoint that this shouldn't have been the main event? Both guys are clearly the top dogs in the promotion. They've had nothing but awesome/incredibly compelling matches. That's a main event match.

Rollins managed to interfere in that match. Raw the following night was largely structured around what a total dick he is. Ambrose AND Cena both want him dead. Randy and Kane are starting to turn on him. HHH had to give him a warning. I'd say he's now a top-of-the-card guy, too. And since Ambrose is his foil, and he started the show and ended the show and was in a bunch of segments that anchored the night's narrative, I'd say he was top-of-the-card last night, too.

How many more people do you want involved in that role? Anything more than that gets completely convoluted. It also takes a lot of time to develop characters interesting and intriguing enough to get to that level.

I love Bray like no one else. He's my favorite character going right now and possibly ever. But guess what? He can't get to the top of the card right now because there's no room for him in terms of narrative structure. If he enters that fray, it makes absolutely zero sense. It's the same with everyone else on the roster. You can only have so many guys in the main event.

As far as the tag teams -- Look at the 80s NWA, which everyone (rightfully) loves. The Midnights and the R'n'R Express wrestled roughly 50,000,000 times in that era. Is there anything that different to what we have now?

[Cristobal]

Gregg, this has been explained to you. The reason why it matters whether WM 31 was the culmination of a year of brilliant booking or a result of Creative being backed into a corner after the fans violently rejected THEIR preferred storyline is because THE PEOPLE WHO BOOKED IT ARE STILL THE FUCKING BOOKERS.

If someone was going to serve you a shit sandwich and he only ended up giving you a steak cuz you told him how to cook it and explained that you wouldn't be eating any more shit sandwiches, this is not a person you then suddenly trust to cater your wedding.

[piranesi]

 

 

I love Bray like no one else. He's my favorite character going right now and possibly ever. But guess what? He can't get to the top of the card right now because there's no room for him in terms of narrative structure. If he enters that fray, it makes absolutely zero sense. It's the same with everyone else on the roster. You can only have so many guys in the main event.

 

 

 

 

Here's another reason that backstage stuff inevitably becomes part of anyone's understanding of wrestling.  At some point, usually pretty early in life...and then over and over and over again...you have to come to terms with the difference between a character being great and his story being shitty.

 

Bray is a great character put together by a great performer.  But eventually, the character or story "sucks" because other people decide to "bump it down" or whatever.   And it is worth separating out in your mind, when a character goes wrong, if it was because of the performer of some backstage booking bullshit.

 

Like, Wade Barrett.  Based on what has happened so far, he's likely to go down as a pretty shitty character who never did much.  That doesn't actually mean that Wade Barrett didn't do a good job or that any of his characters have been badly created or poorly acted.  But if you don't separate out him and his performances from the politics and random bullshit of Vince...then you can't make that distinction.

 

The same may go with Bray Wyatt if they don't change their minds (again) and build him into a better story.  You know that years from now if someone say "Bray Wyatt??? He was lame! You will be the first guy to point out that he didn't "make it" because of booking, not because of Bray's work, or the concept.

 

You need that extra layer of stuff to know why your favorite guy is tanking even though he's actually an awesome character (Emma  FOREVAUH!).

 

[Curt McGirt]

Funny, I was speculating last night thinking "it would be funny if it's Sami Zayn under there with his silly grin and ginger hair". I haven't seen him perform in NXT yet (though I've seen a fair amount of Generico performances) and just based on stills alone I think it would be funny for him to pull the head off and get "Ole!" chants. 

 

When I heard the Kid Rock song I immediately said to myself "I thought I'd never hear that again... I was wrong."

 

I think everyone is complaining that their favorites aren't on top of the card, or aren't getting the reaction they wish they did. I do it too. Yeah I wish we had a main that was Sheamus/Cesaro or there was an NXT invasion but what are you gonna do. Enjoy what's there and bitch about the rest. It ain't ever gonna be perfect.

[The Comedian]

The commercial for the vidyagame (^TM and © Hank Hill) with "Bawitdaba" amused me greatly.  Nothing says "new generation" quite like a song that was released in 1998.

 

In Vince's world 1998 never ended...

[scraylo187]

Not going to lie. I think my favorite thing on Raw right now is Adam Rose and a rabbit vs. Slater and Gator. 

 

Assuming they're going where I think they're going, a lower card act is getting a complete story with a beginning, middle, and an end that builds on continuity (a thing WWE ignores constantly) and plays to every character's strength. 

[Curt McGirt]

They really need to nuke the Party Foul because that is WAAAAAAAY too close to Dirty Deeds (and looks better, actually).

[Hagan]

Criticizing stuffing instead of potatoes is absolutely fine and worthy.

But base criticism around what's seen on TV. Don't base it around the supposed "NEWZ~!" stuff. Who knows what's truth or not. Yet that always comes up when people discuss what the actual consumption part of stuffing instead of potatoes looks like.

When was the last time you saw in a TV/Film review some sort of reference to the various insider trading that goes into making entertainment? That stuff goes on constantly. It ultimately does not matter one bit in terms of actually analyzing what's good and what's bad about the actual piece of artwork that was made.

 

 

I think the constant bemoaning of stuff that will happen in the future is tedious. Examples include: "I just know Cena is going to win the belt back," "Dean Ambrose will never win the belt," "Hunter's will beat Ric Flair's record even if he destroys the company (2003 represent), "no way Kevin Steen/Prince Devitt/Sami Zayn won't get buried in the future."

 

Honestly, the number of truly can't miss talents that the WWE ever blew isn't that large. How many goddamn WWE DVDs have had the "he never was supposed to make it" narrative? Let's list all the guys that WWE fans were convinced would never be given the opportunity to be a top guy that ended up winning the belt. 

Bret Hart

Shawn Michaels

Steve Austin

Mankind

Chris Jericho

Eddy Guerrero 

Edge 

RVD

Jeff Hardy

CM Punk

Rey Mysterio 

Daniel Bryan

Chris Benoit

Booker T

Dolph Ziggler

Christian

 

not all of those guys were home runs but the constant bemoaning that "all the good wrestlers get buried because Kevin Dunn/Vince/Stephanie/Hunter/Johny Ace/whomever the Internet's new bogeyman is/  is tiring. I mean, one of my favorite wrestlers of all-time is Arn Anderson. Dude never even won the US title. Definitely never got close to the World title. I didn't spend my fandom bitching that he wasn't being pushed. The Enforcer had his spot, stayed over and kicked ass for over a decade. That's what it's all about. 

[Patrick B.]

I did get an odd bit of amusement out of the fact that Randy Orton and Kane are seemingly playing second fiddle to Seth Rollins nowadays.

[Jenalysis]

I'm ok with guys not getting the World title that I like, as long as they get TV time, and good opponents/matches.

 

If Cesaro ends up not going beyond Greg Valentine status, I'm ok with that- the Hammer had a great run in the WWF in the 80s.

[Greggulator]

Other people who never won the big one in the WWE:

Ted DiBiase

 

Mr. Perfect

 

Ricky Steamboat

Jake Roberts

Rick Rude

I am sure there are others.

Were they any less awesome?

[blitzkrieg]

Nikki's ass attack almost makes sense given that she took time in a promo at some point in the last couple weeks to call attention to her voluptuous derrière (her words, not mine; don't shoot the messenger, I generally keep my perving to myself).

Almost.

But the problem is that this seemingly isn't being used to set up a mini ass based feud between Nikki and Naomi. It can be like WCW's superkick wars.

[Hagan]

On another note, I dig the idea of them swapping the IC and Diva's titles back and forth. Those secondary titles don't mean anything anyway, so you may as well have the excitement of a title change happening. 

 

I mean, they basically barely have title matches on TV anymore and titles change hands once in a blue moon. The tags and world title should be kept somewhat strong, but I'd switch up those other belts all the time.