Buy Me a Burrito Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Hi there. The Marvel thread seems to be about monthly comics, but I had a question about a character and I was curious to see if any of you had an idea about it. So every classic Marvel hero has some sort of flaw: Spider-Man has his self-doubt. The Thing can't revert to human form and Iron Man has to wear the suit to stay alive. For the longest time I thought that the X-Men's flaw was that they were born with powers, "defending the world that fears them" yadda yadda. But then I considered Cyclops. Cyclops also has the whole "brain damage won't let him control his optic blasts" thing also. So he has two flaws, whereas the rest of the original X-Men don't really have that. Is this because he was considered the "lead" in the book or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Are you just talking about Silver age Cyclops or the current iteration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Wasn't the brain damage a retcon? I think they did it to try to make him more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Not being totally sure what you mean by original x-men Logan has a pretty long list of flaws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buy Me a Burrito Posted March 27, 2014 Author Share Posted March 27, 2014 Original X-Men meaning the first five in the comics: Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Iceman, Beast and Angel. Is the brain damage a retcon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 It might've been from when they introduced Havok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 27, 2014 Share Posted March 27, 2014 Wasn't the brain damage a retcon? I think they did it to try to make him more interesting. It failed. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buy Me a Burrito Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 I dunno, I like Cyclops. I mean he isn't a character that can star in his own title, but he's definitely a good character. Every team needs a straightlaced Hal Jordan-type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bustronaut Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 So apparently originally the ruby glasses came about because Scott started having headaches as a teen, and a doctor discovered that ruby quartz lenses cured that. That they also stopped his eye beams after he developed mutant powers was a happy accident. I love silver age science! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool arrow Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I've often wondered about Cyke's visor. Wouldn't it have to butt up against his eyeballs to contain the energy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 It doesn't contain the beam, it refracts/diffuses it to the point that it's no longer dangerous or visible. Otherwise Scott would have to have ridiculous upper body strength to get the glasses and visor onto his face. It doesn't make much sense since the beams aren't really made of light, but again, COMIC SCIENCE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buy Me a Burrito Posted March 28, 2014 Author Share Posted March 28, 2014 This entire thing isn't as cut and dry as I remember it. Fucking comics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Yeah, the brain damage thing was when they introduced the story that Corsair tossed Scott and his brother out of the plane they were in that was being taken by aliens. As far as the original five go in the Silver Age, they had Professor X briefly and privately dealing with that he was in love with Jean, which I found weird and creepy even when I was 9 reading reprints and collecting old comics. And Beast was always struggling with shoes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Oh man, Hank's special shoes with the hinges that allowed him to open up the toes! I remember encountering that bit for the first time at age 12 or 13, and immediately asking how anyone could not notice that his shoes weren't really sewn together properly, as well as what actual good they'd do him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I always thought it was a great that they changed Hank from a Ben Grimm imitation in X-Men #1 to the intellectual character in X-Men #2. That, and that Hank and Bobby always took their dates to swinging jazz and folk joints in Greenwich Village. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I think Cyclops biggest flaw is that he is kind of the Todd Marinovich of mutants. He has been raised to be the future leader of the mutant movement, and it has consumed his life to the point that he can't really adapt to the world around him. He is so blind to the world around him he can't see how his actions are turning the X-men from sympathetic underdogs to overbearing zealots who are turning even more people against mutants. He walking the line between fighting against oppression and being a terrorist who is out for vengence. That is why I think he is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SolidGoldBomb Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Original X-Men meaning the first five in the comics: Cyclops, Marvel Girl, Iceman, Beast and Angel. Is the brain damage a retcon? They all have flaws, maybe they all didn't have flaws from day one but they have all been "given" flaws since then I guess. Beast keeps mutating every year, and has gone from a hairy blue guy to a cat to everything in between. Iceman's powers are unstable and keep evolving also, he's was shown in the future as a wizard who expelled an Ice-Hulk from his psyche or something. He's got self confidence and women issues, he got screwed over by Mystique (but who hasn't). Angel has a long list of flaws, he was tortured and turned into Archangel, and he's had to suppress his killer instinct since then. He got killed recently and brought back with amnesia and in a seemingly brand new body. Now he's a trust fund baby with no memories of his past, an oblivious mental patient. Jean is mentally unstable, her family was killed because of who she is and she hates herself for it. She lost control of herself and was possessed by a cosmic alien force and killed planets with billions of people. Now she's basically mutant Jesus who never wanted to be as powerful as she is, and didn't want to be the Mutant Messiah, but that's her role now and she struggles to accept it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 A lot of Hank's issues are moral ones. He's so smart but he can't fix all the world's problems. And he sort of understands what he might have to do in order to fix them, and it's not anything he could live with. Meanwhile, the world gets worse and worse and he has to deal with his ethical standards and his big heart. He sees his friends go bad or die (or sometimes worse, die and come back) and more and more weight end up on his shoulders, when he just wants to pal around with Bobby or Wonder Man and crack jokes and have adventures and make scientific discovery. Or he can't wear shoes. You know, whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eivion Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I think Cyclops biggest flaw is that he is kind of the Todd Marinovich of mutants. He has been raised to be the future leader of the mutant movement, and it has consumed his life to the point that he can't really adapt to the world around him. He is so blind to the world around him he can't see how his actions are turning the X-men from sympathetic underdogs to overbearing zealots who are turning even more people against mutants. He walking the line between fighting against oppression and being a terrorist who is out for vengence. That is why I think he is interesting. Honestly my biggest reason for not liking Cyclops too much at the moment is that so many people, including it feels at times his actual writers as well, fail to see pretty much everything you just said. Cyclops is actually a pretty interesting character to me at the moment, but it gets annoying when everyone keeps trying to tie his current problems to the Phoenix crap from AvX and not the fact that he is antagonistic as hell right now, including essentially gathering mutants under the false pretensions of saving them to in reality more or less form an army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 A lot of Hank's issues are moral ones. He's so smart but he can't fix all the world's problems. And he sort of understands what he might have to do in order to fix them, and it's not anything he could live with. Meanwhile, the world gets worse and worse and he has to deal with his ethical standards and his big heart. I think Beast has abandoned pretty much any ethical standards he had, or at least he's found ways to rationalize away his recent behavior. Between annihilating a whole world in "Ghost Box" and disrupting the entire timestream just to wag his furry dick in Scott's face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I tend to ignore Ellis comics more often than not (when thinking about this sort of thing). They're fun to read in the moment, but they rarely sync well with the larger mythos. As for the latter, that's kind of the whole point. People keep calling him on it but it was all because he reached a breaking point after Xavier's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 What's his excuse for making a scene at Nightcrawler's funeral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 I always thought it was a great that they changed Hank from a Ben Grimm imitation in X-Men #1 to the intellectual character in X-Men #2. That, and that Hank and Bobby always took their dates to swinging jazz and folk joints in Greenwich Village. Which is funny, because Thing in the first part of FF #1 spoke a lot more eloquently before being tweaked into the lovable meat-head we all know him as going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 28, 2014 Share Posted March 28, 2014 Ben is also a fucking spaceship pilot. Which I love about him. Is Hank still with Abigail Brand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseCannon Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 I think Cyclops biggest flaw is that he is kind of the Todd Marinovich of mutants. He has been raised to be the future leader of the mutant movement, and it has consumed his life to the point that he can't really adapt to the world around him. He is so blind to the world around him he can't see how his actions are turning the X-men from sympathetic underdogs to overbearing zealots who are turning even more people against mutants. He walking the line between fighting against oppression and being a terrorist who is out for vengence. That is why I think he is interesting. He's not blind. He knows what he is doing and what the effects will be. He knows that there will be no mutant-human lovefest kumbaya society. He is a revolutionary who knows that his presence agitates those in power who are anti-mutant in orientation. His goal is to scare the hell out of them. His goal is to build something similar to what Occupy Wall Street would have been if it had more badasses and fewer finger-waving weenies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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