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While my friends and I were discussing the movie last night, we were trying to think of a way to unfuck this franchise, which would have to be done with this movie, so obviously that didn't work. If it did go differently though, maybe this would be one way. I'll admit this is possibly dumb, it is long, it's probably confusing as fuck and it may contain plot holes for I am not a writer of fiction.

 

For this to work, you basically have to pretend Terminator 3 doesn't exist, or rather, it exists to just show that Judgment Day can't be avoided, or at least that's what most think. Salvation just shows what a version of the future war is like.

 

They nearly went full Doc Brown with J. K. Simmons' character and they should have gone beyond Doc Brown with him.

 

The movie starts the same. A T1000 makes it way back to 1974 to kill 9 year old Sarah and Pops manages to make his way back as well, except he only knows he was sent back to protect Sarah by Skynet.

 

Somehow Pops knows the approximate location and time Kyle will be sent back and also knows that another T800 will be sent to kill Sarah.

 

The T1000 sent to kill Sarah in 1974 has been chasing her and Pops the whole time, including up to 1984. In that time, the T800 provides Sarah with an education, along with priming her for the future.

 

In the future, that plays out the same as well. Skynet is on the ropes and the resistance makes their final push on Skynet and the facility with the time machine. As planned, Skynet sends back a T800 to 1984 to kill Sarah and the humans send back Kyle to protect Sarah.

 

As Kyle gets sent back, he sees Matt Smith/Skynet attack and infect John. This causes Kyle to experience multiple timelines, just like he does in the movie.

 

So Kyle experiences multiple timelines during his trip, he arrives, the T1000 we see in the trailers detects a temporal disturbance and it encounters Kyle. Sarah and Pops show up to save Kyle. A witness to all of this stuff manages to survive.

 

Sarah, Pops and Kyle overcome the T1000 at some point in 1984. Sarah and Pops take Kyle to the time machine they've been building.

 

Kyle tells them that John told him everything to expect based on what Sarah told younger John. Nowhere in there was a T1000, Pops or another time machine. Sarah only knows what Pops told her and the timeline is much different. Kyle also reveals he saw multiple timelines including ones from 1997, 2004 and 2017. Kyle can't explain it, but something is pulling him to 2017. Pops only knows that it's possible for multiple timelines to exist from the use of time travel and agrees that based on the divergences in their timeline, they should go to 2017 since enough events have changed to make the outcomes of 1997 and 2004 unlikely to occur, namely that there are no random Terminator parts to inspire Myles Dyson to create Skynet/Cyberdyne, but those are still created and Judgment Day still happens.

 

Kyle and Sarah travel to 2017, days before what Kyle thinks will be Judgment Day, leaving Pops behind to meet up with them in 2017. While he waits, he will acquire weapons, ammo and explosives to assault Skynet/Cyberdyne.

 

When Sarah and Kyle arrive, it causes a pretty big ruckus due to how cautious we are about terrorism and how everyone has a video camera on them with their phones. Sarah and Kyle are captured and placed in jail while they wait to be moved to a mental care facility since they didn't do any harm, but they were naked and saying crazy stuff.

 

Simmons shows up as a psychiatrist and takes the two out of jail to a mental care facility. but instead takes them to Pops' safehouse.

Simmons explains that he was there in a version of that same 1984, was placed in a psychiatric ward, Skynet went live, the bombs fell and he was someone placed in an internment camp. The machines ran tests on many people, including him, and for some people, they were used to test out time travel. Most went crazy or died. Simmons was one of those used to test time travel and he survived. The machines began to augment his brain to better record data. Simmons was then sent in the time machine several times, never actually traveling to any point, and each time he saw a different timeline and received other augmentations. The machines eventually lost Simmons in time at some point around 2010. Before that, he connected with Skynet due to his augmentations. He learned that Skynet developed a second AI, one of them realizing that Skynet's own survival was at risk because of the war against humans and because they perceived humans as a disease to be eliminated. This AI was more passive than the Skynet we all know and the more aggressive Skynet continued to carry out it's campaign to destroy all humans. That more passive AI lives in Simmons. So before Simmons gets lost in 2010, a T1000 is sent back as a test to an even earlier point, in 1974, to test the capabilities of time travel. The timeline doesn't change, but the more aggressive Skynet knows they can send a machine back and that will be used when Skynet's survival is at stake because sending additional machines could have the possibility of preventing Skynet from even going online. Simmons, empowered by the passive Skynet, sends back a T800 programmed to protect Sarah in the event the T1000 attacks her.

 

Simmons explains that somehow Dyson is still able to bring Skynet online and doesn't understand how that's possible. He also explains that Judgment Day will always happen unless they avoid the creation of all other timelines. Each time someone or something went back, a new tangent timeline was created. From that point forward, the universe has been trying to correct itself, to avoid this current state, which will inevitably unravel all of space and time. He also knows that for Skynet, time travel was always a goal so it's possible it's being worked on now. The rules of the time machine are also better explained to allow some machines to make it through.

 

The team goes to abduct Dyson to learn more. While they're with Dyson, John shows up and kills Dyson. He reveals that Skynet opened his mind to the futility of war and he had to go back to ensure it's creation and he's been behind this creation of Skynet and he is Skynet.

 

Anyway, a big battle ensues with John trying to protect Skynet. During the fight, they discover a time machine. Simmons explains to them that he can program the time machine to make the jump to a specific timeline and point in the space-time continuum, but he needs to go back with them because the information he has needs to survive to avoid Judgment Day and the only way to avoid Judgment Day is to let Skynet go online and let Judgment Day occur. Pops destroys John, but is mortally wounded in the process. Sarah and Kyle obviously protest what Simmons is saying, but Pops ultimately serves Simmons, so Pops aids in sending Simmons, Sarah and Kyle in time. The red light in Pops' eye fades as he's thinking of memories of Sarah. Fade to black.

 

Open back up to what looks like a desert. The temporal bubble appears and drops off Simmons, Sarah and Kyle. We see they're actually in the post-Judgment Day future and up walks John Connor.

 

In the next movie, they're in the post-Judgment Day future and human John aids them in their mission. Simmons reveals they're in the T3 timeline and they need to stop the TX and make a time jump before the TX is destroyed because if they're still in that timeline when the TX is destroyed, who knows what will happened when the timeline is severed.

 

The encounter the TX, but wind up destroying it to survive. Nothing happens and Simmons theorizes that they need to go to the time travel facility at Skynet because they also need to stop the T1000 in that timeline.

 

During all of this assault on the facility to stop the T1000, we learn that Sarah is pregnant, Kyle dies because fuck Jai Courtney, and Simmons dies. Sarah realizes that Simmons should still be alive though, and during the assault on Skynet, she and John find Simmons.

 

Many epic, Mad Max type battles take plac and the T800 and T1000 fight. John has the intelligence to realize he can't go with Simmons and Sarah since he's part of this doomed timeline. Simmons supports this by saying the disruption could undo everything they've done. We get Sarah ordering John not to stay, but he stays anyway and tells Simmons to protect Sarah since he'll have a second life if they succeed, point to Sarah's stomach. John and the T800 stop the T1000 after Sarah and Simmons jump. Then we get some crazy special effects showing the ending of a timeline.

 

Simmons, who doesn't have the knowledge that the other Simmons had, and pregnant Sarah arrive in 1984, right after Sarah and Kyle jump to 2017. Yeah, it's the Back to the Future 2 ending.

 

The third movie starts by explaining Sarah and Simmons' mission. Skynet needs to survive and go online. If it doesn't, nothing changes and Judgment Day still happens. My version of Terminator Genisys is now the prime timeline. They can't wait around for 23 years.

 

We also learn that Matt Smith/Skynet has been hot on their trail, using the same coordinates to jump to same timeline, concluding that this will give Skynet it's ultimate victory.

 

The team reconstructs the time machine and begins to make the jump. Matt Smith shows up at the this same time and Pops has to throw him into the time bubble or else Matt Smith can do whatever he wants over the next 23 years. Simmons, Sarah and Smith all arrive in 2017 and then it's just massive fights en route to Cyberdyne. The ultimate goal is for Simmons to upload the version of Skynet in his brain to override the version being created by John. However the upload occurs is fine as long as it isn't dumb where Cyberdyne just happened to have a device to uplink a brain or something. The little biometric reader John used to communicate with Skynet would be fine.

 

While that happens, Sarah and Pops need to fend off John and Smith. Simmons' good Skynet begins to have an effect on John so Smith kills John. Smith and Pops begin to fight until Smith begins to infect Pops. Pops manages to drag them over to the time machine, which Sarah turns on to destroy Smith and the time machine. Pops gets spit out of the time bubble.

Simmons holds on to complete the upload and dies after because his brain is fried.

 

The more benevolent Skynet rebuilds Pops with the liquid metal soup. Pops then picks up Sarah, who is in labor and dying, and takes her to the hospital. Sarah dies or doesn't, I don't care, but John lives with Pops there protect John or John and Sarah. Skynet has setup John to be taken care of as he must be the guardian against other AI and that's how he lives out his life, still ensuring the survival of the human race.

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You're mad a nanite encrusted [person] makes the trip through time unaffected, but you're fine with multiple liquid metal robots doing the same?  Someone's cranky!

 

I've long wondered why the future soldiers didn't skin some extra terminators, make this pelts into a giant bag, fill it with future weapons and send it back.

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The T1000 was sent back in a bio-organic cocoon.

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I watched the first one again last night. Is it possible that in the original timeline before Reese ever travelled back that one of the other Sarah Connors was John Connor's mother, and it was a case of mistaken identity? I know I'm just trying to explain away a paradox, but it's been a long time since I've watched it and that hadn't occurred to me before.

 

I've always viewed Reese going back as the original timeline because that's what the movies show us. It not only gives birth to John Connor but also SkyNet because the arm and chip are left behind.

 

But considering SkyNet has alternate origins in three different movies, anything can happen the World Terminator Federation.

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Yeah, John Connor Prime gets to spend the 2000s playing fullback for the New York Jets.

 

Fixed.

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Y'all are sleeping on rhe most important question.

 

If Hulk Hogan does a guest shot in the next movie, will he be allowed to wear his bandana?

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"So we've kind of tied our franchise history in a Gordian knot. How do we revive it?"

"Make thst knot the center of a macrame piece, obviously."

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The one thing that has changed about mainstream Hollywood movies in the last 20 years, is that up until the 80s or 90s, they thought you had to end a movie by resolving everything and giving the audience a happy ever after. And at some point after that, they decided that resolution was wrong, that actually you should resolve as little as possible, to leave things open for a series of sequels. That's why they never show defeated villains dead any more, just in jail or in a coma.

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Okay, so I just got done rewatching T2. Is the T-800's crushed arm being left in the factory a plot hole or was that to leave room for a sequel?

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The entire Terminator series is a self-fufilling time loop.  They never change the outcome, just how long it takes to get there.  I'm going with, the first movie was just seeing one instance,  Kinda like Back to the Future had to keep on rolling, with every Marty that goes back to 1955 being different because of what the previous Marty did. 

 

Skynet was built at some point, went back and tried to take out their top adversary via time travel, but every time they go back, they change the entire future, so things happen differently each time.  Judgement Day, how it got there, when it happened, possibly who was the main human that was fighting them.

 

And the Sarah Connor that Reese went back for in the first movie was correct, he had the picture given to him by John.,  Unless he found a doppleganger with the same name.

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Okay. My wife was like, "They spent all that time trying to get rid of the arm and the chip, and then he just leaves his arm laying around in the factory when he has Sarah terminate him?!"

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Okay. My wife was like, "They spent all that time trying to get rid of the arm and the chip, and then he just leaves his arm laying around in the factory when he has Sarah terminate him?!"

 

While the arm is still there, it is really just crushed steel (or whatever material a terminator is made out of), some hydraulics, and wires. The chip that Dyson based Skynet on was the terminator's CPU that was in it's head, so at least in that sense, the CPU was destroyed when Arnold was lowered into the molten metal. This is assuming that their is no advanced chip in the terminator's arm for some reason...

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Revealing that Reese went back in time and found the wrong Sarah Connor would not even make the top five "Most Confusing Retcons" in the franchise.

 

Whoever called Emilia Clarke the "shortest supermodel in history" had it right.  I'm not convinced she could fight off 60-ish Linda Hamilton, much less a terminator.

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Hahaha McG wanted to make Spring Awakening!

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He talked about a sequel where Sarah Connor was back somehow and she and John would travel back in time to London or something.

 

And I know TheVileOne is just posting it to say without saying that Genisys won't get a sequel. Which is probably the case.

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I just want the franchise to die with dignity.  I love Terminator, not this pretender garbage.

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I just want the franchise to die with dignity.  I love Terminator, not this pretender garbage.

 

If you go back in time to 1997 you can stop this from happening.

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The entire Terminator series is a self-fufilling time loop.  They never change the outcome, just how long it takes to get there.  I'm going with, the first movie was just seeing one instance,  Kinda like Back to the Future had to keep on rolling, with every Marty that goes back to 1955 being different because of what the previous Marty did. 

 

Skynet was built at some point, went back and tried to take out their top adversary via time travel, but every time they go back, they change the entire future, so things happen differently each time.  Judgement Day, how it got there, when it happened, possibly who was the main human that was fighting them.

The TV show Sarah Connor Chronicles came up with an incredibly fascinating variation on that theme. In that show, it was eventually revealed that MULTIPLE future timelines with Skynet existed, and both the machines and the humans in these alternate dimensions were sending back their agents to try and influence things. This led to such subplots as two humans from the future who knew each other, but realized they'd come from different futures where different events had happened. This could've led to AMAZING shit down the line, but of course it was a Fox show on Friday night and we all know how those always turn out.

Okay. My wife was like, "They spent all that time trying to get rid of the arm and the chip, and then he just leaves his arm laying around in the factory when he has Sarah terminate him?!"

While the arm is still there, it is really just crushed steel (or whatever material a terminator is made out of), some hydraulics, and wires. The chip that Dyson based Skynet on was the terminator's CPU that was in it's head, so at least in that sense, the CPU was destroyed when Arnold was lowered into the molten metal. This is assuming that their is no advanced chip in the terminator's arm for some reason...
Actually, the movie's novelization said that Sarah and John searched around the factory and scooped up every bit of Terminator metal they could find, and tossed it all into the molten iron. Specifically to prevent anything from the future being found by anyone from the present. I suppose it got cut out of the movie for pacing reasons, they'd had the big emotional climax and didn't want to hang around for an extended epilogue.
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I've been reading this thread trying to work out the terminator timeline.

 

Dear God. I think I have a headache now. 

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I can only chalk it up to Arnold being awesome. Jai Courtney and Emilia Clarke both fucking sucked. They are terrible actors.

 

When they first announced Emilia Clarke was the lead, I immediately thought she should've waited at least a few more years before taking on a giant role. I mean I think she is great as Daenerys, but it's not like it requires her to do a whole heck of a lot. I've seen her do some stage acting (Breakfast at Tiffany's IIRC). Oooof.

 

She is a tad bit limited.

 

 

I'm pretty sure me and every other single, straight guy in the theater was not paying attention to her acting talent when she was on screen.

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I doubt the Game of Thrones fans cared about that. Her character was infamous for getting naked SO much in the early seasons of the show that she eventually demanded that they never ever put her in another nude scene, in an "or else I fucking quit" ultimatum. We've seen all she's got, so the idea of her running around fully clothed and expressing maternal concern isn't exactly a turn-on.

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I donno, man. I definitely noticed that the 80s bangs and ponytail made her look (1) very different and (2) good.

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