AEW - JUNE 2023

[Dolphman 3000]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

Can’t believe we’re in here acting like a crowd turning hostile on Punk is something he or TK/AEW are scared of. Or pretending that he pulled a Hogan and demanded the World title.

Wild.

They're restructuring the entire company because Phil and the Bucks hurt each other's egos, and neither side wants to be perceived as "the bad guy"

In truth, both parties are damaged goods now and there's plenty of blame to go around for that

 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

21 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Punk got Punked in minutes to Mox. Even without seeing Rocky. The guy is a selfless hero. 

Wait, if you don't see Rocky, you get to be champ?

... AM I THE NEXT AEW CHAMPION?!

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

6 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

Wait, if you don't see Rocky, you get to be champ?

... AM I THE NEXT AEW CHAMPION?!

Since I’ve seen Rocky (including the awful Rocky 5), but I’ve never seen Creed do I get to be the next AEW International Champion? Heck I’m the same age as the current champ, and I’m seven inches taller than he is so I’m sure I’d be believable. 

[Casey]

30 minutes ago, LF2 said:

The guy that according to reports refused to lose to Hangman didn’t want the belt? What the hell did he think the outcome was gonna be then? Either you job or you get the belt. 

And he definitely wanted it the second time, because there’s no way his ego could take jobbing to Mox in Chicago. The stink he’s since raised over the match in Cincy proves he wouldn’t even think of losing in “his” town. 

He lost to MJF in Chicago, what are you even talking about? I’m sure your response will be, “but wait, it wasn’t a clean finish!” but he still LOST to MJF in Chicago. People didn’t see that coming, and the crowd sure didn’t. Plus it was a great match, too. I’d argue that Punk did more for MJF than Cody or Jericho did, but that’s just me.

And even the Observer said that the story that Punk was originally going to lose to Hangman but was pressuring TK to change the finish is untrue. And it’s not like Meltzer or Alvarez like to carry water for Punk or something. They verbatim say that TK wanted the title on Punk.

Also, bias source, but Dax said Punk never wanted the title and was content just doing fun feuds and matches. Which tracked at the time, up until All Out when the narrative around Punk suddenly shifted because he went off on the Elite at an internet presser seen by like 15k (maybe) at the time.

[Dolphman 3000]

12 minutes ago, Casey said:

And even the Observer said that the story that Punk was originally going to lose to Hangman but was pressuring TK to change the finish is untrue. And it’s not like Meltzer or Alvarez like to carry water for Punk or something. They verbatim say that TK wanted the title on Punk.

Do you think Tony Khan is above lying to Meltzer so that his shop looks less sloppy, given that every single word out of his mouth is nothing but positive spin?

The only non-passive thing the guy has ever done is be cunty towards Big Swole on Twitter

Edited June 11, 2023 by Dolphman 3000

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

14 minutes ago, Casey said:

He lost to MJF in Chicago, what are you even talking about? I’m sure your response will be, “but wait, it wasn’t a clean finish!” but he still LOST to MJF in Chicago. People didn’t see that coming, and the crowd sure didn’t. Plus it was a great match, too. I’d argue that Punk did more for MJF than Cody or Jericho did, but that’s just me.

And even the Observer said that the story that Punk was originally going to lose to Hangman but was pressuring TK to change the finish is untrue. And it’s not like Meltzer or Alvarez like to carry water for Punk or something. They verbatim say that TK wanted the title on Punk.

Also, bias source, but Dax said Punk never wanted the title and was content just doing fun feuds and matches. Which tracked at the time, up until All Out when the narrative around Punk suddenly shifted because he went off on the Elite at an internet presser seen by like 15k (maybe) at the time.

He lost to MJF which helped build up to his PPV win over MJF. But we’re supposed to overlook that right? Just like how I’m sure if he didn’t have his meltdown at All Out that Full Gear was ending with him beating MJF again. As for saying he did more for MJF than Cody did that’s not hard. Cody had the one good tv segment, then he lost in less than decisive fashion. I personally feel like the two guys Cody did the most for were Darby and Brodie Lee.

So what if he didn’t pressure Khan? That still doesn’t say he offered to or was willing to lose to Hangman. Bryan’s made it clear he doesn’t want the belt and Khan respects that so if Punk were as giving as you claim he’d have politely declined it too.

Dax says anything that will give him, Cash, and his boy (Punk) even the smallest bit of shine. So I’m glad you admit he’s a biased source. How do you figure only 15K saw the presser? Within a day it would’ve had more views than that (especially being on Labor Day weekend). And no his wanting fun feuds and matches doesn’t track. He (Punk) has bitched about working Hangman, he didn’t like working Mox, and that’s his whole run as champ. But yes please give me more examples of him being selfless or his drunken former podcast pal saying he’s a “Saint”. 

[Technico Support]

On 6/9/2023 at 6:27 PM, Dolphman 3000 said:

Canadian fans have to pay $20/month for TSN+ if they want to watch Collision

 

Well I just got a $400 bill for a specialist visit and I have health insurance, so Canada’s still ahead of the game.

Edited June 11, 2023 by Technico Support

[John from Cincinnati]

“Punk should be volunteering to lose,” my god we’re stretching here. Especially when the other side of the story is Mox was the one pulling the “doesn’t work for me, brother” card. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

4 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

“Punk should be volunteering to lose,” my god we’re stretching here. Especially when the other side of the story is Mox was the one pulling the “doesn’t work for me, brother” card. 

My comment was actually about when he wrestled Hangman. If he truly didn’t want to be champ he’d have did that. Hell Cody did it with Jericho, Bryan has done it with Hangman, Mox, and MJF.

[Casey]

You got me on Cody, but he was also in an executive role so he probably had a little more leeway. Danielson not wanting the title is true, yeah, but also probably didn’t fit their plans in situations like with MJF or Hangman (except for maybe when they were crowning a new champion post-All Out, but Mox is ALWAYS their go-to option).

Cody and Danielson might not have wanted to be champion, but that doesn’t mean TK had it figured into his plans anyway, and we all know how stubborn he is when it comes to that. The difference in those versus Punk is that he wanted Punk to be champion. He could decline all day, but at the end of the day, it’s not up to anyone else besides TK. I’m positive that if Khan wanted Danielson to beat Hangman, despite what Bryan wanted, it would have happened.

[John from Cincinnati]

5 minutes ago, LF2 said:

My comment was actually about when he wrestled Hangman. If he truly didn’t want to be champ he’d have did that. Hell Cody did it with Jericho, Bryan has done it with Hangman, Mox, and MJF.

With the Rocky 3 deal, his position was he’d do it if Tony wanted it. Same deal here. I know people love to hate him, but now we’re dinging him for being a company guy. Like take a breath. 

Edited June 11, 2023 by John from Cincinnati

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

15 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

With the Rocky 3 deal, his position was he’d do it if Tony wanted it. Same deal here. I know people love to hate him, but now we’re dinging him for being a company guy. Like take a breath. 

If you don’t want to be champ you tell Khan that. Bryan has, and clearly Punk hasn’t. But yes he’s a “company guy”. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 minutes ago, LF2 said:

If you don’t want to be champ you tell Khan that. Bryan has, and clearly Punk hasn’t. But yes he’s a “company guy”. 

You & I align on a lot of things but this is one I'm gonna have to differ with you on. TK is the boss. Punk could say he doesn't want to be champion all he wants, but if TK is set on it that is happening. Yes Danielson has said he doesn't wan to be champion. But Danielson also isn't a mega star that had sat out for almost a decade and was drawing big PPV numbers and selling lots of tickets. I love Danielson in all aspects of wrestling so this isn't a knock on him at all. It's just Punk has a higher price tag, was driving tons of revenue, and TK wanted him as the company center piece to get an ever better return on that investment.

Bryan signed a 3 year deal. By all reports he's loving AEW. But there's no guarantee he won't end up back in WWE. Before All Out Punk was a lifer who was going to be the center piece of the company forever going forward. So it's not really a fair situation to say well because Bryan didn't want the belt (and didn't get it) that Punk just didn't push hard enough. The truth is TK just doesn;t want Bryan to be champion right now. He did want Punk as champion. Their desires and lobbying efforts don't really factor into this at all. The booker man is gonna do what the booker man wants to do.

[Technico Support]

I don’t think you lump in Cody with guys who altruistically refused to win the title.  My personal theory is that Cody, knowing Khan already had his first four champions set in stone and having some input in his own booking, booked himself to be an “uncrowned champion” with the whole “if I lose, I’ll never challenge for the belt again” storyline.  If the first four champs and first few years of the company are already set, and you’re not in that picture, then you’re either jobbing to the champ or jobbing to contenders as a setup guy.  Instead, Cody figured out a way to be 1b, like “yeah, so and so is the champ now, but that’s only because Cody can’t fight for it.”  
 

Sounds wacky, I know, but the kid learned at the feet of a guy who made a career out of making sure he stayed the top babyface no matter who the company was pushing.  

Edited June 11, 2023 by Technico Support

[Casey]

“Hey boss, I don’t want the World title.”

”Great! That doesn’t fit my plans anyway. Hangman literally just won the title and I’m using you to establish his 7 month reign/MJF’s story is over the course of a year due to the Bidding War of 2024 story and can’t lose on the second defense anyway.”

- A completely plausible conversation that happened between Danielson and TK

[John from Cincinnati]

54 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I don’t think you lump in Cody with guys who altruistically refused to win the title.  My personal theory is that Cody, knowing Khan already had his first four champions set in stone and having some input in his own booking, booked himself to be an “uncrowned champion” with the whole “if I lose, I’ll never challenge for the belt again” storyline.  If the first four champs and first few years of the company are already set, and you’re not in that picture, then you’re either jobbing to the champ or jobbing to contenders as a setup guy.  Instead, Cody figured out a way to be 1b, like “yeah, so and so is the champ now, but that’s only because Cody can’t fight for it.”  
 

Sounds wacky, I know, but the kid learned at the feet of a guy who made a career out of making sure he stayed the top babyface no matter who the company was pushing.  

This makes sense in addition to the appearance that at the beginning of Dynamite, all the EVPs seemed to be getting ahead of any possible perception that they were booking themselves too strong. Cody seemed to correct the most extremely, trying to squash “AEW Jarrett” accusations before they could start (and before we knew “AEW Jarrett” meant something positive.

[Matt D]

I hate to go here, but... the more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that Collision can only succeed if there's a big angle in the front end. When Punk came back the first time, it was ok to have him up against Bowens or QT or Moriarty or whatever just for the novelty of it all and to see him work new opponents as they built to a match vs Darby or Kingston or whoever at the PPV. Now there'll be some novelty to that, but not a ton. There's a familiarity and a comfort to Punk vs Joe and an edge to Punk vs White but I just don't think it cuts it.

I kind of sort of think the show should start with Punk getting destroyed off camera and it should end with Punk, patched up, running out and turning to join with White, Juice, and Joe to be Bullet Club Gold. That means that you have to kill the Gunns the next week like the Nasty Boys got killed by the NWO and they may never recover (or at least not for another couple of turns) but eggs and omelettes and Joe is kind of an odd fit but no one's going to tell him that and he does have the whole Sweet Tooth thing upcoming so he's a good guy to feature. The promos that could follow, first about how he was just using FTR to get back into AEW and then eventually, if and when things calm down enough, how the Bullet Club made the Elite and now how he's going to remake it in his image, etc., would be some best possible scenario stuff.

But they don't have to do that, not really. They just have to do something.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Damn I like that idea in theory. The whole "Bullet Club built The Elite, and now I will use The Bullet Club to kill The Elite" angle is money. Can everyone put on their big boy pants and make some money here? I hope so.

I do also agree that the Punk return isn't going to be able to coast on random fun Punk matches. The ticket sales are bad. AEW is being a little too reliant on winks and nods this time around. Hamilton still has under 1,000 tickets sold right? They need to start being proactive and actively promote. Give us details on what will be different between Collision & Dynamite. Tell us why Collision isn't just Rampage or Battle Of The Belts. Give us a real reason or some tangible information. We're a week out and they could have spent a month pushing that this is a brand split (if it is) and how this is THE ONLY place to see Punk / Joe / FTR / BC Gold / Andrade / Miro / Rosa / whatever. But instead they've just put these people's faces on things and not spelled it out.

Listen being vague and not having a heavy hand can be a breathe of fresh air in wrestling story telling. But this is wrestling promotion. And I don't think AEW has that new hotness buzz they used to. Maybe do the tried and true promotion part if you want people to care? Just thinking out loud.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

“Hey boss, I don’t want the World title.”

”Great! That doesn’t fit my plans anyway. Hangman literally just won the title and I’m using you to establish his 7 month reign/MJF’s story is over the course of a year due to the Bidding War of 2024 story and can’t lose on the second defense anyway.”

- A completely plausible conversation that happened between Danielson and TK

And what exactly is the fictional bidding war of 24 story doing for anyone? It makes AEW look like they’re a minor league company. You won’t ever see Roman come out on Smackdown winking at the camera, declaring his love for Tony Khan, and speaking in circles about how if Triple H doesn’t play the game correctly he’ll jump to AEW. 

 

[Dolphman 3000]

14 minutes ago, LF2 said:

And what exactly is the fictional bidding war of 24 story doing for anyone? It makes AEW look like they’re a minor league company. You won’t ever see Roman come out on Smackdown winking at the camera, declaring his love for Tony Khan, and speaking in circles about how if Triple H doesn’t play the game correctly he’ll jump to AEW.

If MJF is legit gone next year, it'll be funny to see if "Four Pillars" are ever mentioned again or if that term quietly gets memory-holed

[Casey]

42 minutes ago, LF2 said:

And what exactly is the fictional bidding war of 24 story doing for anyone? It makes AEW look like they’re a minor league company. You won’t ever see Roman come out on Smackdown winking at the camera, declaring his love for Tony Khan, and speaking in circles about how if Triple H doesn’t play the game correctly he’ll jump to AEW. 

 

I don’t like the angle or MJF, so this part we can at least agree on.

[Dog]

MJF has shifted from saying he'll go to WWE in 2024, to saying he might just retire with Tony's belt, since he'll have beaten everyone by then.

[Raziel]

He can't beat everyone on that roster working 6 matches a year.

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, LF2 said:

You won’t ever see Roman come out on Smackdown winking at the camera, declaring his love for Tony Khan, and speaking in circles about how if Triple H doesn’t play the game correctly he’ll jump to AEW. 

 

Shit, it's almost like AEW isn't WWE.

[Octopus]

Eh, I’m not a huge bidding war storyline guy but I still think it can be pulled off well without minor leaguing AEW. Play up that the other side is loaded with cash from making a deal with the Saudi government and MJF wants some of that evil money. Dress Schiavone up in a flag shirt or something while it’s happening.