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MAY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling.


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11 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

AJ Styles: "Stripping community?!?"

Yeah, this was definitely gonna happen.

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5 hours ago, Eoae said:

(do you know anyone who starts doing their television character 24/7?  Or refers to themselves in the third person?)

Yes. Plenty of people. Ricky Henderson comes to mind.

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12 hours ago, Eoae said:

My counterargument would be that I don't think Randy spending several decades doing lots of drugs and being an increasingly out-of-control paranoid nutball did Randy any favors.

Savage is a top 5 or 10 guy for me, but he documentary just reconfirmed the opinion I've had of him as a person.  There wasn't much new or different in the episode, and, honestly, I could rattle off stories that make him sound even worse.  The Liz-Savage stuff has always sounded creepy, it's always been known that Randy was sorta weird (do you know anyone who starts doing their television character 24/7?  Or refers to themselves in the third person?) and we've always kinda known that Randy was using heavily (both performance enhancers and recreational drugs.  It's not the flimmakers fault that they didn't have a lot to work with to paint Randy in a better light.

I thought Lanny came off as a toadie.  No idea how fair it is, but he came off as an enabler who wouldn't say anything to Randy about anything unless he was sure Randy wanted to hear it (prob. because, even in WCW, he was drawing a salary mostly because Randy wanted him taken care of). 

true on all accounts.  I think the telling tale will be with HBK. If they don't mention his drug use and shitty attitude phase then we will know all we need to.  HBK's drug use and attitude has been well documented as well. I'm looking forward to see how much of it is covered and if they bring up his miraculous turn to Jesus (to get him off of working Tuesday Smackdown tapings)

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12 hours ago, Eoae said:

My counterargument would be that I don't think Randy spending several decades doing lots of drugs and being an increasingly out-of-control paranoid nutball did Randy any favors.

Savage is a top 5 or 10 guy for me, but he documentary just reconfirmed the opinion I've had of him as a person.  There wasn't much new or different in the episode, and, honestly, I could rattle off stories that make him sound even worse.  The Liz-Savage stuff has always sounded creepy, it's always been known that Randy was sorta weird (do you know anyone who starts doing their television character 24/7?  Or refers to themselves in the third person?) and we've always kinda known that Randy was using heavily (both performance enhancers and recreational drugs.  It's not the flimmakers fault that they didn't have a lot to work with to paint Randy in a better light.

I thought Lanny came off as a toadie.  No idea how fair it is, but he came off as an enabler who wouldn't say anything to Randy about anything unless he was sure Randy wanted to hear it (prob. because, even in WCW, he was drawing a salary mostly because Randy wanted him taken care of). 

true on all accounts.  I think the telling tale will be with HBK. If they don't mention his drug use and shitty attitude phase then we will know all we need to.  HBK's drug use and attitude has been well documented as well. I'm looking forward to see how much of it is covered and if they bring up his miraculous turn to Jesus (to get him off of working Tuesday Smackdown tapings)

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12 hours ago, Eoae said:

My counterargument would be that I don't think Randy spending several decades doing lots of drugs and being an increasingly out-of-control paranoid nutball did Randy any favors.

Savage is a top 5 or 10 guy for me, but he documentary just reconfirmed the opinion I've had of him as a person.  There wasn't much new or different in the episode, and, honestly, I could rattle off stories that make him sound even worse.  The Liz-Savage stuff has always sounded creepy, it's always been known that Randy was sorta weird (do you know anyone who starts doing their television character 24/7?  Or refers to themselves in the third person?) and we've always kinda known that Randy was using heavily (both performance enhancers and recreational drugs.  It's not the flimmakers fault that they didn't have a lot to work with to paint Randy in a better light.

I thought Lanny came off as a toadie.  No idea how fair it is, but he came off as an enabler who wouldn't say anything to Randy about anything unless he was sure Randy wanted to hear it (prob. because, even in WCW, he was drawing a salary mostly because Randy wanted him taken care of). 

true on all accounts.  I think the telling tale will be with HBK. If they don't mention his drug use and shitty attitude phase then we will know all we need to.  HBK's drug use and attitude has been well documented as well. I'm looking forward to see how much of it is covered and if they bring up his miraculous turn to Jesus (to get him off of working Tuesday Smackdown tapings)

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So I watched Tenet last night. Really bad movie even if I understand it's ambition, and it got me thinking about wrestling match / movie analogies.

Tenet is definitely Orton/HHH from Wrestlemania 25 to me. For those that don't know the film, it has various time travel/entropy elements wherein more or less the action you see plays out in reverse. Reminds me a lot of that WM25 match, which attempted this sort of deconstruction of the main event style with the big finisher reversal sequence at the beginning unwinding to an extended heat segment at the end. 

Both the movie and that match are novel (arguably pretentious) ideas that were poorly executed, with action playing out 'in reverse'. There's probably a joke in here about Tenet's bad sound mix and the lack of crowd heat for the WM25 match, too. Either way, both flopped. 

What are some other pro wrestling match / movie comparisons? 

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Been a member of this board since September 2005 and this is the lowest interest I've seen in WWE in my time here. I understand why, I share in it. It's frustrating because you've got great talent having to navigate excrement creek without a paddle battling against a senile old man.

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5 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Been a member of this board since September 2005 and this is the lowest interest I've seen in WWE in my time here. I understand why, I share in it. It's frustrating because you've got great talent having to navigate excrement creek without a paddle battling against a senile old man.

This might belong in the hot take thread but...Smackdown is a good show! It's definitely caught up in some anti-WWE residuals due to just how God awful Raw is. 

Raw is...I don't know...just so bad. The worst it's ever been.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, For Great Justice said:

This might belong in the hot take thread but...Smackdown is a good show! It's definitely caught up in some anti-WWE residuals due to just how God awful Raw is. 

Raw is...I don't know...just so bad. The worst it's ever been.

Smackdown's worth watching, for sure. I don't think that's a hot take.

RAW is wrestling purgatory. God awful. From what I've seen of it and compared to RAW's past...2020-2021 is the worst run.

Edited by The Natural
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More people will see this here. Funny how when the Shield split in June 2014, Dean Ambrose/Seth Rollins had to get new entrance attire with new entrance music while Roman Reigns kept a version of the Shield theme and wore shitty gear with coloured trim. I really liked the theme when it debuted on Smackdown last week as Roman Reigns faced Daniel Bryan for the WWE Universal Championship/if Bryan loses, he's banished from Smackdown. I like it even more now.

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3 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

So I watched Tenet last night. Really bad movie even if I understand it's ambition, and it got me thinking about wrestling match / movie analogies.

Tenet is definitely Orton/HHH from Wrestlemania 25 to me. For those that don't know the film, it has various time travel/entropy elements wherein more or less the action you see plays out in reverse. Reminds me a lot of that WM25 match, which attempted this sort of deconstruction of the main event style with the big finisher reversal sequence at the beginning unwinding to an extended heat segment at the end. 

Both the movie and that match are novel (arguably pretentious) ideas that were poorly executed, with action playing out 'in reverse'. There's probably a joke in here about Tenet's bad sound mix and the lack of crowd heat for the WM25 match, too. Either way, both flopped. 

What are some other pro wrestling match / movie comparisons? 

Woah woah woah, now hold up right there: I don't remember HHH and Orton doing any temporal pincer movements! 

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1 hour ago, The Natural said:

Been a member of this board since September 2005 and this is the lowest interest I've seen in WWE in my time here. I understand why, I share in it. It's frustrating because you've got great talent having to navigate excrement creek without a paddle battling against a senile old man.

My wrestling hot take is that over the last few years WWE effectively killed the town. They were positioned absolutely perfectly. All of those attitude era wrestling fans were now entering their prime earning years with disposable income and young children. The indies/performance center had produced a talent surplus. The tv/streaming wars would give them more money for programming than they could imagine. Yet between endless bad press, boring/bad tv and ignoring the audience they managed to turn off most of their fan base.  

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5 hours ago, paintedbynumbers said:

I think the telling tale will be with HBK. If they don't mention his drug use and shitty attitude phase then we will know all we need to.  HBK's drug use and attitude has been well documented as well.

They are going knee-deep in that, according to the page they wrote about it on the Biography site that was posted somewhere on here. In fact the drugs are all they talked about. 

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In 2000, Vince McMahon snapped his fingers and half the wrestling on television disappeared, like it had never existed. And for the subsequent decades, he's been sitting back, watching the sun rise on a grateful WWE Universe.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/3/2021 at 1:22 AM, BobbyWhioux said:

or if he'd done an eye gouge.

i'm still waiting for the handspring/tumbling eye gouge
 

 

I think El Phantasmo has done one of those.

 

As for the WWE stuff, I think many of us have been so disappointed for so long we can't even bring ourselves to hate WWE anymore- we've just grown completely indifferent to it- and that is worse for WWE.

Edited by alstein
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30 minutes ago, AxB said:

In 2000, Vince McMahon snapped his fingers and half the wrestling on television disappeared, like it had never existed. And for the subsequent decades, he's been sitting back, watching the sun rise on a grateful WWE Universe.

Except for that one time he fought God.

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Contrary to some of the prevailing opinion on here, I had no problem with the Macho Documentary whatsoever and thought it was the best one of the series so far. If it burst your bubble a bit, well, Randy wasn't always a great guy. He had a real dark side and that shouldn't be swept under the rug. George's story was important and I'm glad it was told. As far as Hogan goes well he was a big part of Randy's life and he had a place in the doc. Bubba (who apparently is some fat piece of shit in an NYPD hat which just really endeared me to him, of course) didn't, being an antagonist who had nothing worth saying that somebody else could have, so I agree there. Lanny was saying what a brother would say. Toadie? I wouldn't go that far. Lex is contrite; I did not like them playing the 911 tape again and I didn't like it when Vice did either. But overall this was a well-crafted, detailed, nuanced piece of work that said way, way more about his life than the Dark Side piece. 

Oh, and Hogan still got to underline he's a piece of shit yet again with that snide comment about George being "a cute piece that looked good for the gimmick" or whatever. Fuck you dude.

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I gotta be honest, when I think of a Hulk Hogan fan I just mutter to myself "ok boomer". The quintessential wrestler for that era but hoo boy, I don't think Thelma and Louise drove any straighter off a cliff. 

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7 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

 

What are some other pro wrestling match / movie comparisons? 

Every James Bond Movie. Starts hot to shine the babyface., at some point the heel cuts him off to get some heat leading up to the big comeback in the finale act.

 

going further this is my argument when people say things like "the royale rumble is too predictable" , every James Bond movie follows pretty much the same formula and its the correct one because often the obvious storyline is the right way to go.

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What did the Jedi Knight say to the Deathmatch Wrestler?

"May the forks be in you"

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