The ROH Thread

[Concrete]

ROH not doing iPPVs still feels weird. It makes every show pretty much another show. Unless its a TV taping which I probably care even less about. Kingston and Homicide+ the Young Bucks competing more regularly there could get me interested. We'll see how ROH does it. Typically not well. 

[Brisco]

Doesn't it say something bad about the company itself if every 3 months another group of guys who used to work there show up promising to destroy it?

 

It worked so well with ROH in 06 and pretty well with SCUM that maybe they are going to the well way too often. Kinda like WWE and workers feeding with management. Of course this only comes a month or two after the SCUM blow off.

[The Man Known as Dan]

I thought SCUM was a failure, and the CZW angle was a perfect circumstance, and 7 years ago.

[Spontaneous]

I figured Nana would be bringing Homicide and Kingston. Both claim they are "retiring" at the end of the year, why not have them return for one last run? Instead we got them as "outlaws invading ROH". OOOOO, scary.

 

I feel secure enough right now with the sample size we have to say Delirious is crummy at booking. Between putting their title on an injured Jay Briscoe, SCUM, and this, it is just disappointing this year for ROH. Now their in a situation with their title where they'll just be copying PWG BOLA 2012 if Cole/Elgin win it. Ciampa would be different. Steen just had the title for almost a year. It is just uninspiring lately.

[rzombie1988]

ROH not doing iPPVs still feels weird. It makes every show pretty much another show. Unless its a TV taping which I probably care even less about. Kingston and Homicide+ the Young Bucks competing more regularly there could get me interested. We'll see how ROH does it. Typically not well. 

Their show before was a waste of time and now it's even a bigger waste of time now.

[ultimoDANK]

London and Kendrick as regulars would help. I think at this point they gotta have Elgin win the tourney.

[nate]

If Hernandez would get released by TNA and end up in ROH with Kingston & Homicide, I would literally shit my pants.

 

Yes ... I ... would ...

[Overly Critical Man]

It says a lot about a company when jabronies like Jimmy Jacobs, Domino or Eddie Kingston can pose a serious threat to its existence.

[paul sosnowski]

And where the hell are Jacobs, Domino (Cliff Compton)...What happened to Rhett Titus, is he no longer with the company?

[Kropotkin's Beard]

It says a lot about a company when jabronies like Jimmy Jacobs, Domino or Eddie Kingston can pose a serious threat to its existence.

Your gimmick is dull.

[Spontaneous]

Guys, Super Domino was a major threat. We all know what he did to the Great Power Uti in their fight.

 

Why are people always trying to invade ROH and TNA? It doesn't seem worth the effort.

 

I still really want a swerve and Ciampa ends up as champ. The old ROH would try something different. I feel it ends up as Cole though. I thought they were building him up to be the one to beat Steen when Cole was a face earlier in the year.

[SovietShooter]

I never understood the whole "stable forms to destroy a company" angle, unless it had something really creative behind it.  Destroying the company = putting yourself out of a job.  "Taking over" makes sense and is fine, and is general enough that it can mean getting control of "power", holding all the championships, etc. 

 

When you just start an angle where the goal is to "destroy the company", and there isn't some kind of higher endgame when the doors close... what is the point?  Adding to the nonsense is how there is no logical explanation for how individuals trying to put the company out of business are allowed to continue working there. 

 

Take the NWO for example.  The Outsiders were top stars in the WWF that came to WCW to become top stars there too, and in the process, prove that their "brand" was bigger than the promotion... and thus increasing their worth.  Especially at the peak of the Monday Night Wars, it made sense because if they failed, they could just go back to where they came.  The NWO wasn't there to put WCW out of business, they were there to overtake the company. 

 

An example that worked: The Network.  Paul Heyman worked the gimmick with Don Callis where he represented TNN, which didn't want ECW on the air, but it was the highest rated show on the network, so they had to air it.  At first it was just a work representing a meddling network that that wanted to tone down the "extreme" ECW style, but as the real-life negotiations between Viacom/WWF became more well-known, the angle became more and more about TNN wanting to put ECW out of business so they could openly negotiate w/ WWF. This angle worked because it was ribbing on the square, because the dastardly heel network was gonna go over in the end, and Heyman knew it.  

 

But soooo many indys, and even places like TNA/ROH/AAA have had these angles where guys come in to destroy the company and it makes no sense at all. It makes a helluva lot more sense for guys to just say "there is more money being in main events, and this group has the sole purpose of dominating the main events, which is done by holding all the gold". 

 

Shit, ROH could easily just bring some of the guys from their past in and start a big feud about the "old ROH style" vs the "new style".  Or Brawlers vs "Strongstyle".  Whatever. 

[Newb82]

Part of the idea when SCUM first formed was that they wanted to kill the promotion because Jim Cornette had ruined the RoH that they loved and in their mind it would be a mercy killing.

Then Cornette left RoH and Steen left the group, so it was guys raging against the promotion and trying to kill it for no particular reason.

[Ace]

Hell, wasn't The Prophecy's objective to destroy it as well? What was the objective of "The Group"? Corino's original stable with the shitty name? 

[Brisco]

Hell, wasn't The Prophecy's objective to destroy it as well? What was the objective of "The Group"? Corino's original stable with the shitty name? 

 

The Prophecy was trying to destroy the farce that was the Code of Honor. They wanted to destroy the company and rebuild it in their image.

 

At least they had a gameplan.

[Newb82]

From what I've read about early RoH The Group was formed to oppose The Prophecy, compete for worst stable name in wrestling.

[Brisco]

The Group included Steve Corino, Samoa Joe, C.W. Anderson, Michael Shane, Guillotine LeGrande & Simply Luscious

[Sublime]

That certainly sounds like a...group...of people...a kind of lameass group of people too. I mean Samoa Joe is someone I always dug (before TNA killed his love of life) and Corino is a guy that can be really enjoyable (or really f'n irritating) but Michale Shane? Guillotine LeGrande? not really guys that I was ever dying to see, same can be said about Anderson, dude was good but overall suffered from Lance Storm syndrome in that his personality was nonexistant.

[Spontaneous]

The thing that kills me about this angle though is, its just two guys. Why book them if they plan to ruin your company? Why does the entire locker room not just rush out and beat the snot out of two guys trying to kill a paycheck for all of them? Why did Homicide and Kingston have to be invaders and not just guys who believe they deserve the top spots in the company?

 

I really wish Evolve and ROH would just merge already. They both lack what the other has, for the most part.

[Territorial]

That certainly sounds like a...group...of people...a kind of lameass group of people too. I mean Samoa Joe is someone I always dug (before TNA killed his love of life) and Corino is a guy that can be really enjoyable (or really f'n irritating) but Michale Shane? Guillotine LeGrande? not really guys that I was ever dying to see, same can be said about Anderson, dude was good but overall suffered from Lance Storm syndrome in that his personality was nonexistant.

 

The Group was formed in '03.  At the time, Samoa Joe had just debuted in ROH and was basically an unknown.  It was a really forgettable collection of random dudes who didn't last very long as a stable.

 

Did like the Prophecy.  Maff and Whitmer were a surprisingly good team (only time I've liked Whitmer) and, at the time, I dug Christopher Daniel's "fallen angel" gimmick.

[Brisco]

Even though it was run by the worst human in wrestling I LOVED '02-'03 ROH and that period of the indies in general. The following is about The Group/Prophecy feud from the ROH Wiki.

 

 

At Final Battle 2002, while Daniels and Simply Luscious were in the ring talking with Gary Michael Capetta, Steve Corino, Daniel's friend and Luscious' real life boyfriend, came out and said he was going to form a group of his own, one that was so elite it did not even need a name, and they were going to take all the belts in Ring of Honor. He then threatened to break up with Luscious because she was a member of The Prophecy, but stopped when she left them and join The Group. Samoa Joe, also tired of Daniels and The Prophecy, left to join his friend and fellow Pro Wrestling Zero1 wrestler Corino as a member of The Group. Corino said that it was only business and not to be taken personally by Christopher Daniels. Daniels responded by bringing Allison Danger, the real life sister of Steve Corino, into The Prophecy, and start a feud between the two factions.

At Expect the Unexpected, Daniels and Xavier lost the tag team title to A. J. Styles and Amazing Red. Less than two weeks later, Xavier, having suffered a concussion in the tag match, defended the ROH Championship against Samoa Joe. Christopher Daniels and Allison Danger were in his corner, but Michael Shane, the newest member of The Group, came down superkicked him, and the two were cared to the back by The Group. Xavier then lost the title to Joe. He then took time off from ROH, and The Prophecy, to heal. With Xavier gone, Morgan rarely in Ring of Honor anymore, and Mark Briscoe quietly leaving The Prophecy to form a tag team with his brother, Daniels began to search out new members for The Prophecy. At The Epic Encounter, Dan Maff walked out on his partner Monsta Mack after losing to The Backseat Boyz. Later that night, Daniels wrestled Homicide, Maff's trainer, in a singles match. After the match, The Group ran down and attacked both wrestlers. Maff ran down and chased them away, seemingly to help his trainer, but ripped off his "Repeat Offenders" shirt to reveal a Prophecy shirt underneath. He then threw his old shirt on top a Homicide's unconscious face and walked away with Daniels and Danger. After the show, he was confronted by Monsta Mack, who wanted to know why he joined The Prophecy. Maff told him that he was getting nowhere in ROH by obeying the Code of Honor, but that he could rise to the top by siding with Daniels. The two wrestled one final match together at Retribution: Round Robin Challenge II. After losing, Maff and Daniels attacked Monsta Mack. In the Round Robin tournament, Daniels defeated both Amazing Red and Paul London to win the tournament. After the main event, when Samoa Joe (along with Michael Shane) defeated Doug Williams, The Prophecy ran down and attacked The Group.

At Night of the Grudges, The Prophecy and The Group squared off in their first and only match against each other. The two factions wrestled in a six man tag match with Daniels, Maff and Morgan facing Samoa Joe, CW Anderson and Michael Shane (who was subbing for Steve Corino who pulled out the night before), where the losing faction had to disband. The Prophecy won when Maff pinned the ROH Champion Samoa Joe. Donovan Morgan left ROH, and thus The Prophecy, after the match. As a result of pinning the champion, Maff was granted a match for the ROH Championship at Wrestle Rave 2003. His father died the day before his match, and Maff, despite his best efforts, was unable to defeated Joe in the emotional match, which he dedicated to his father.

[BEN!]

Guys, Super Domino was a major threat. We all know what he did to the Great Power Uti in their fight.

He didn't do shit to The Great Power Uti.  He didn't punch him in the balls and Uti kept the replica WCW US belt.  And look at the shape America is in now.  Thanks for nothing, so-called Super Domino.

 

 

Why are people always trying to invade ROH and TNA? It doesn't seem worth the effort.

 

Pro wrestling's greatest one hit wonders are "Outsider Invasion" and "Evil Authority Figure" and wrestling promotions have been covering both for what seems like almost two decades non-stop.  I don't think anybody in charge even knows why they keep playing these tunes anymore much less understands why their versions don't catch fire like the originals did.

[TimWresPowr]

This Outlaws as invaders gimmick was discussed to death yesterday on another board I frequent.  It has since come out that that wasn't the intention at all.  Seems lots of people latched on to one sentence in a review of the show that everyone must have read.  Supposedly the intention was that they were going to take over the tag division and oppose what corporate ROH stands for, basically saying they are rebels.  Supposedly this has been misinterpreted as an invasion angle.  I can't point you to anything ROH has released stating such but that's what's now being reported.  I think I saw reference to that confusing line being edited out of the promo as it appears on the VOD or something.

[Newb82]

Pro wrestling's greatest one hit wonders are "Outsider Invasion" and "Evil Authority Figure" and wrestling promotions have been covering both for what seems like almost two decades non-stop. I don't think anybody in charge even knows why they keep playing these tunes anymore much less understands why their versions don't catch fire like the originals did.

Shit, PRIME is actually doing BOTH with outsiders that are backed by the "evil authority figure" invading the company and trying to take all the top spots.That their show got canceled once FOX bought Sports Time Ohio should serve as a lesson to all.

[Newb82]

One thing I haven't mentioned that I've found funny about current RoH is that they keep telling their viewers, in so many words (and this was essentially the whole point of the SCUM angle) that "we know RoH isn't nearly as good as it used to be...but it's all Jim Cornette's fault".

RoH as a company often seems as obsessed with their "glory days" as WWE gets with the "Attitude Era".