DougN Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I will definitely agree that he is not probably, but is definitely the greatest athlete of the past 10 years. Top 5 basketball player? I'm sorry, I just don't see him being better than Jordan, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell, Kareem, or Oscar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Why don't we wait until everything is said and done before we make any decisions about where he lands historically? The dude could potentially have another 10 years of relevant basketball. It's not like there was a consensus at this point in Jordan's career. I think it's folly to compare eras, but I will say this: Jordan benefits immensely from playing in the pre-internet era. I think the conversation would have been very different if MJ had a 24 hour news cycle to deal with every time he punched someone in the shower after practice, called a teammate a gay slur, or got caught on a cell phone camera walking in to a casino a 3:00 AM the night before a game. Until the first three peat, you would have had people like Skip Bayless bringing the hot takes with talk about how he needs to be a better leader, and then after he won a few more, the conversation would've shifted to something even more patently ridiculous like "Michael never won a championship without a Hall of Fame Coach". I think a realistic and impartial look at Lebron's career is a major casualty of the increasingly ever present "Embrace Debate" era at ESPN. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Completely agree on this. I heard someone make an extremely similar point about Peyton Manning and while he had some points, I think the argument is DEFINITELY more valid for LBJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 LeBron is the first social media sports superstar. He was drafted in June 2003. MySpace appeared in August 2003. Facebook came into existence in 2004, Twitter in 2006. Not to mention all the sports blogs--Deadspin, SB Nation, Bleacher Report, TMZ Sports. 24-hour news cycles, everyone and their grandma having an outlet to express their wee opinions on everything. LeBron arrived on the scene just as all of this was taking off. Dude has been under a microscope his entire career. But not only has he achieved at a high level, he's been the best at what he does while being a reasonably sane person in the process. Jordan would have been screwed in today's landscape--gambling, throwing teammates off training tables, club hopping, whatever. LeBron has been great, and beyond great. But it's not great enough. It'd be funny if it weren't so ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Bulls and Raps have the same record but Toronto has the tie breaker. I think I'd rather have the three spot against the Whizzers, if it puts Brooklyn on the same side as Miami. I think Miami would win that possible match-up regardless, I just want to see Pierce and Garnett fuck with the Heat one more time. So the final games for both teams look like this LOS BULLS @ Minny Detroit(I'll be there!) @Knicks Magic @Bobcats RAPTORS Sixers Knicks @Detroit Bucks @Knicks Predictions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I think the Bulls pull it off. LOS BULLS @ Minny - Bulls win Detroit(I'll be there!)- Bulls win @Knicks - Could go either way since Knicks are making their last surge. Magic- Bulls win @Bobcats- Either win or lose, but I think the Bulls will win. RAPTORS Sixers - Raptors win. Knicks- Could go either way since Knicks are making their last surge. @Detroit - Raptors win. Bucks - Raptors win. @Knicks- Could go either way since Knicks are making their last surge. So really, it all depends on what the Knicks do these last few games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.K.o.S. Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Those are all games that both the Raptors and Bulls should win. Basically I think the Raptors need to go 5-0 to keep the third seed, but they have this habit of playing down to their opponent's level - they let the Bucks hang around way too long last game. Plus you've got the iffiness of Lowry and Johnson and the distraction of the JV DUI, and with all that combined, going perfect down the stretch will be tough. Unfortunately I think the Bulls are gonna pull ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie M. Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Pacers are sitting all five starters against Bucks. I have full confidence that the Bucks can and will lose this game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 With all the hype since he joined in 2010, Lebron with the Heat has only yielded one 60+ season (or 73% for the lockout season).\ With the way the East was this year, there is no reason whatsoever that the Heat AND the Pacers shouldn't have hit 60 wins. I'm from Cleveland, so I hate Lebron like he is an ex wife. That being said, we can't keep moving the goal posts on him like this. He has 3/3 on conference championships and 2/3 for NBA titles, all the while putting up historic individual numbers. There has to be a point where we stop looking for reasons to say he has failed when he clearly hasn't, not even in Cleveland. LeBron is the all-time goal post adjuster, no matter what he does everyone thinks he should have done more. He is already one of the top 5 players of all time and somehow some people will find a way to downgrade him. He is probably the greatest athlete of his generation, but no one wants to give him credit. Nah. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 OK, top 5 may be hyperbolic, but if you were to have a conversation about the best players of all time, you would have to bring him up. He has been great for ten years and is not slowing down. He has averaged at least 27 points, 7 rebounds, and 6 assists for every year of his career other than his rookie year. Scoff all you want to, but he's probably going to do this for another five years barring injury. Just being great that long puts him in the top 5 conversation for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 LeBron isn't great. He's not elite. He's not Jordan or Magic or Bird or Oscar or even Karl Malone. The league is watered down, he wouldn't play like this if it was the 1980s, they'd kick his ass. He's not clutch, he doesn't know how to win, why couldn't he win a chip with Cleveland? Loser LeBron, Dwyane Wade's sidekick, South Beach bum, looo-ssseer. (sarcasm) Pacers and Bucks tied in the 4th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 In fairness, I can't think of anyone outside of Z-Bo or Reggie Evans from today's game that would have survived the 80's and early 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 In fairness, I can't think of anyone outside of Z-Bo or Reggie Evans from today's game that would have survived the 80's and early 90's. Maybe Artest and Stephen Jackson. . . .The Mailman would have eaten alot of people alive to be fair. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 #1 in the East: no one wants it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 In fairness, I can't think of anyone outside of Z-Bo or Reggie Evans from today's game that would have survived the 80's and early 90's. Maybe Artest and Stephen Jackson. . . .The Mailman would have eaten alot of people alive to be fair. . . This is fallacy, LeBron is as big as Karl Malone and better than him at basically everything. Durant is a seven foot small forward with 25 foot range, he could play in any era. I'd take Westbrook against any point guard in the 80s or 90s not named Isaiah. I'd pay an entire week's pay to watch Chris Paul and Blake Griffin play a game of 2-on-2 against Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp. Carmelo, despite all of his flaws would be an elite scorer at any point in NBA history. I honestly think this is probably the best the league has been since Jordan, Bird, and Magic were in their primes. You can talk all that back in my day shit if you want, but these dudes are good. Oh, in a year or two I think Anthony Davis could be a combination of Hakeem Olajuwon and Shawn Kemp. I liked the 80s and 90s too, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing how good the current crop of players are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Oh, in a year or two I think Anthony Davis could be a combination of Hakeem Olajuwon and Shawn Kemp. This is an amazing combination that no man can live up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_MJ_ Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 I'm not sure what Michael Beasley did to get pushed to the bottom of the Miami's bench, but when a not very far removed D-League center is getting significant minutes over you, you know you're on the outs with the coaching staff. Of course, the Bucks lose to the Pacers' bench fulfilling that prophecy. Pacers/Heat is on Friday, but I wonder if either coach is going to sit their players? The Wade situation is quite interesting and concerning for them. Somehow, the Suns are hanging on to the 8th spot in the West. Next up for them: The Spurs. Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuetsar Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 In fairness, I can't think of anyone outside of Z-Bo or Reggie Evans from today's game that would have survived the 80's and early 90's. Maybe Artest and Stephen Jackson. . . .The Mailman would have eaten alot of people alive to be fair. . . This is fallacy, LeBron is as big as Karl Malone and better than him at basically everything. Durant is a seven foot small forward with 25 foot range, he could play in any era. I'd take Westbrook against any point guard in the 80s or 90s not named Isaiah. I'd pay an entire week's pay to watch Chris Paul and Blake Griffin play a game of 2-on-2 against Gary Payton and Shawn Kemp. Carmelo, despite all of his flaws would be an elite scorer at any point in NBA history. I honestly think this is probably the best the league has been since Jordan, Bird, and Magic were in their primes. You can talk all that back in my day shit if you want, but these dudes are good. Oh, in a year or two I think Anthony Davis could be a combination of Hakeem Olajuwon and Shawn Kemp. I liked the 80s and 90s too, but that doesn't stop me from recognizing how good the current crop of players are. Their good, there's no doubt, but Malone threw elbows like nobody's business. The game was tougher back then. Today's guys would adapt, but would literally get their asses kicked for a while too. . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 When do we factor in how travel, training, nutrition and etc.. have changed? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Private planes that leave when they want certainly helps players during cross-country trips. Nutrition is better, but the biggest difference is medicine/surgery. What would once cripple a player can now be worked on. The player can usually return within a year. And with private jets at their disposal, athletes can travel anywhere at a moment's notice to get the best treatment their money can buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Lebron is 6'8", 260 lbs, and athletic as hell. He'd thrive in any era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 No one- not even the biggest Cleveland fan, can deny Lebron is one of the best to ever play the game. But that's never been the issue- the question is: IS LeBron THE BEST EVER? That's the real problem as a whole. Yes, Jordan got his career in before the current "Embrace Debate" era of ESPN- but that era also HELPED LeBron's aura as much as it could hurt it, simply because the same talking heads who would have been arguing about any little thing LeBron does or doesn't do for time-eating debates are the same talking heads who anoint "LEBRON JAMES PLAYS BASKETBALL BETTER THAN ANY PERSON HAS, DOES, OR EVER WILL EVER AGAIN, When he retires THEY SHOULD FOLD THE NBA ENTIRELY! An MVP is not enough for LeBron anymore- make his nickname real and crown him King of the United States!" any time James has a game even slightly above his own average- whether or not it was all that great (and this isn't just Miami- they said it all the way back from the time he had his great game in the 2007 playoffs against Detroit, and talking heads fell all over themselves to claim it was better than any and every Michael Jordan playoff game in history combined. Never mind that it was one game in a series, that (even though screw replacement level, if you replaced LeBron with even the second-best player in the NBA in 2007 the Cavaliers are in the lottery- but with him they win the East) they lost to the Spurs in the Finals, or that Jordan had scored more than that in the Playoffs before- it was the first moment where they had a case to claim LeBron James was the Best Ever that they'd been waiting for for years. Lebron's ONE of the best- but he's not THE BEST yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrag Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 Oh, in a year or two I think Anthony Davis could be a combination of Hakeem Olajuwon and Shawn Kemp. This is an amazing combination that no man can live up to. Barring injury Davis will surpass those dudes, crazy as it is to say. I'm staying away from comparisons when it comes to The Brow. I've never seen anyone like him and he is only 21. Terrifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougN Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 SK's right in that as much as the current Sports Coverage Era has criticized LeBron, it's also lauded him to a ridiculous level. My thing is that yes, he's one of the greatest to play the game. No one's debating that and anyone who would would just be insane to even attempt to. But it's not a given that he's a Top 5 all time player as of right now and to be honest, I think you could make a case that he's not Top 10. Wouldn't be easy, but I think you could do it. Sure, he could have years ahead of him and end in that curve, but as of right now, he's not and that's the problem. People spend too much time discussing LeBron and Jordan when he hasn't really passed people UNDER Jordan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgundy LaRue Posted April 10, 2014 Share Posted April 10, 2014 And Jordan has been crown the BESTEST EVAH! NO ONE COMPARES, NO ONE SHOULD EVEN TRY! If LeBron gets overly praised, the same can be said for Jordan during his time. Dude retired for good 12 years ago, and people still don't want to consider that maybe, perhaps, someone else even has a chance to reach that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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