April 2024 Wrestling Talk

[Log]

Just now, No Point Stance said:

Since when have luchadors who dropped famous mask matches been allowed to re-mask? I guess another little grain of integrity in wrestling has been swept into the dustpan of history.

They can do something like petition the commission to be allowed to wear a lost mask for a special occasion. Apparently, Panther petitioned and had it granted for this match. 

[BloodyChamp]

Does anybody like this promo?

[Elsalvajeloco]

Everytime I see it, I think they could have trimmed it down especially when Taker even then wasn't known for talking.  It's one of the few times WWF bothered to really explain things and having exposition. That said, later on, they never explained why these two people have supernatural powers somehow. If you're going to do origin stories, at least go all in.

[BloodyChamp]

I’d never seen it. I don’t think it’s up there with the others but it’s still good. That’s a testament to how good the WWF was with this type of thing at the time as much as I hate to say it. 

I agree that it was a rare cut and dry explanation of events that happened. You rarely got that in wrestling. It was neat how it was so relatable. Playing with matches, punishment, chores lol! 

So Paul Bearer ran the neighboring funeral home? 

[odessasteps]

46 minutes ago, No Point Stance said:

Since when have luchadors who dropped famous mask matches been allowed to re-mask? I guess another little grain of integrity in wrestling has been swept into the dustpan of history.

As mentioned in the lucha thread a couple weeks ago, he made a request to the commission. Happens every so often on a big occasion. 

[SovietShooter]

58 minutes ago, No Point Stance said:

On 4/6/2024 at 2:55 PM, sabremike said:

 

Since when have luchadors who dropped famous mask matches been allowed to re-mask? I guess another little grain of integrity in wrestling has been swept into the dustpan of history.

This was just a special occasion type of deal, Panther does not typically work with the mask on. This was just a throwback, kinda like how Jericho puts on the old Liontamer tights on occasion.

A few months back for one of the Halloween shows, CMLL had everyone that worked all wear their old masks, and at the end of the night they all came to the ring and removed them one by one in a ceremony.

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

9 minutes ago, BloodyChamp said:

I’d never seen it. I don’t think it’s up there with the others but it’s still good. That’s a testament to how good the WWF was with this type of thing at the time as much as I hate to say it. 

I agree that it was a rare cut and dry explanation of events that happened. You rarely got that in wrestling. It was neat how it was so relatable. Playing with matches, punishment, chores lol! 

So Paul Bearer ran the neighboring funeral home? 

I think the story is that Paul was the apprentice of Taker's father at the family owned funeral home and attending the PRESTIGIOUS college for morticians. The gist of the story from Taker's POV Is the future Kane was messing around with chemicals he shouldn't have been touching which led to the fire that killed their parents. I believed that contradicted Paul's story that Undertaker was playing with matches or something and that was the cause of the fire.

Okay, now the big gapping hole in the story is somehow we're suppose to believe that police or no one in authority told kid Taker that his brother was still alive. It wouldn't even make sense that he was missing because it wouldn't make sense for Bearer to come home from the aforementioned college and then sneak away with kid to later adopt him. Also, even if we suspend disbelief, are we to assume that Bearer somehow had a guardian type relationship with now parentless kid in some type of foster care? Also, where did Undertaker go as a kid? Was he like Caine in Kung Fu as a kid wandering the earth? When Bearer is introduced in WWF in 1991, they never went into the background and if he had a previous relationship with the Undertaker IIRC. From one POV, you can probably explain that ended up putting them in separate homes and maybe Taker didn't remember. That or Taker was so shaken mentally that his lack of supervision for his brother that he never wanted to face his brother again even he was alive. However, they probably should fleshed that out. Then again, they undid a bunch of this with the, "he was never burned to begin with!". And before that, when Kane and Bearer exhumed their parents at some random cemetary and somehow do this without getting arrested and thrown in prison.

[Cobra Commander]

There might be a certain amount of Calvinball to Lucha commissions but I suspect that as long as the promotion doesn't act like the unmasking never happened, it'll pass muster. As long as they're not mad at you for something else.

I guess there is a "fuck 1999 WCW booking" exception they made for Rey Mysterio

 

[odessasteps]

Part of me says that the commission only cares about Mexico, so if you lose your hood in the US or Canada or Japan, it doesn’t reall6 count. 
 

but they can be pernicious and a pain whenever they want to be.

[Coletti]

Blue Panther was his usual maskless self in the CMLL v AEW tag match after which Danielson made the challenge, so Panther only wore the mask for that one on one match. 

[JLowe]

2 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

There might be a certain amount of Calvinball to Lucha commissions but I suspect that as long as the promotion doesn't act like the unmasking never happened, it'll pass muster. As long as they're not mad at you for something else.

I guess there is a "fuck 1999 WCW booking" exception they made for Rey Mysterio

 

And you know, I think that’s bullshit and don’t respect that he hooded back up. He made the decision, he lives with it.

[Cobra Commander]

commission-wise, I guess if you're not outright committing fraud in promoting someone who was unmasked as still having a mask?

would Lucha commission work under the premise of "don't make us look bad and pay us money"?

[SovietShooter]

5 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

commission-wise, I guess if you're not outright committing fraud in promoting someone who was unmasked as still having a mask?

Back in the olde days journeymen-type workers would go from territory to territory and work under different names/masks and lose them, so it has kind of always been a gray area.  The commissions are legitimate public officials, but they are also in on the act.  So they traditionally turned a blind eye to guys remasking when they moved to a different area.  A good example of this would be Adolfo Tapia who was working different gimmicks in different areas in the late 80s/early 90s, losing his mask multiple times, including to Hijo del Santo.  I've never heard any stories of anyone claiming fraud when he was regimmicked in AAA as La Parka.  Conversely, Silver King lost his mask to Hijo del Santo, and wrestled for almost 20 years unmasked. Then suddenly in the late 00s he decided to put the same mask back on again, and work masked in AAA as Silver King - and the commissions put a stop to it.

5 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

would Lucha commission work under the premise of "don't make us look bad and pay us money"?

To a large extent, that is what the commissions are. Usually commissions only get involved in a newsworthy way when there is some kind of incident that gets enough publicity that they have to step in. Aside from that, the only real functions are licensing wrestlers, and some don't even really mess with that.

[Log]

1 hour ago, JLowe said:

And you know, I think that’s bullshit and don’t respect that he hooded back up. He made the decision, he lives with it.

I kind of wonder if Rey didn’t have much of a choice. I doubt him losing it in WCW was handled like it is in Mexico with a bigger payday, etc. He probably showed up to the building that day and found out he was booked to lose it. 

[odessasteps]

WCW is the company that luchadors unmasked in a stupid skit that meant nothing, even on the night. 
 

arguably, Juvy benefitted from unmasking, he might be the only one. 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

12 minutes ago, Log said:

I kind of wonder if Rey didn’t have much of a choice. I doubt him losing it in WCW was handled like it is in Mexico with a bigger payday, etc. He probably showed up to the building that day and found out he was booked to lose it. 

I mean, the stip was Rey's mask against Elizabeth's hair. There was no way he was winning that one.

[Cobra Commander]

with an eclipse tomorrow, clearly the best way for a pro wrestling company to put the eclipse in a story line is for a monster to emerge as a result of the eclipse, only for the monster to job to Lawler at the Mid-South Coliseum next week

[SirSmUgly]

14 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

with an eclipse tomorrow, clearly the best way for a pro wrestling company to put the eclipse in a story line is for a monster to emerge as a result of the eclipse, only for the monster to job to Lawler at the Mid-South Coliseum next week

Sounds like a recruitment job for Mark Guleen of the House of Guleen.

For some reason, after a long intro from Guleen, Gloaming the Eclipse Beast would emerge from a nearby pond in broad daylight instead of stepping through a portal in the sky during the eclipse.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I'd like to think the House of Guleen has been collecting rare human oddities, and he's up to 25,679. He is just waiting for the perfect time to unleash them.

[Cobra Commander]

the House of Gulleen is using AI to generate people with 7 fingers

[Eivion]

10 hours ago, No Point Stance said:

Since when have luchadors who dropped famous mask matches been allowed to re-mask? I guess another little grain of integrity in wrestling has been swept into the dustpan of history.

I think the rule is they can remask after 5-10 years. Generally most don't outside of an entrance or special occasion. It was a special occasion for Blue Panther, and it seems he legit got permission from the Commission to remask for the match.

[Godfrey]

So I've been thinking about the HHH/Ospreay comments. When he first made them I thought he was talking about NXT level talent and was taking a shot at someone like Sammy Guevara who chose AEW over the 7 day a week training in the performance center. There's a discussion to be had there, I don't think either of those extremes is totally the right move but they work for those companies

But Ospreay on the main roster is different. I did a little research (not a ton so could be wrong) and I don't think it's the crushing schedule it used to be

WWE: Two TV shows plus two house shows a week, most likely only 3 shows a week plus a possible PLE and additional promotional appearances

AEW: One to three TV shows a week, plus a possible PPV, independent bookings, and self-promotion

That's not so different so I don't think it was so much workload for Will as much as he would have had to move to the States and take less money. But it's also not what HHH is portraying it as and WWE wrestlers aren't hardhat wearing blue-collar folks grinding it out for a paycheck

And the whole thing is moot if HHH wanted Ospreay to go to NXT and work the Coconut Loop. At this point in Will's career there's no way I would take that deal either

Edited April 8 by Godfrey

[The Natural]

17 hours ago, No Point Stance said:

Since when have luchadors who dropped famous mask matches been allowed to re-mask? I guess another little grain of integrity in wrestling has been swept into the dustpan of history.

 

17 hours ago, Log said:

They can do something like petition the commission to be allowed to wear a lost mask for a special occasion. Apparently, Panther petitioned and had it granted for this match. 

I meant to bring that up after watching  Blue Panther/Ultimo Guerrero/Mistico/Volador Jr vs. Bryan Danielson/Jon Moxley/Claudio Castagnoli/Matt Sydal. CMLL's Homenaje a Dos Leyendas, 29th March 2024. Thank you for asking, No Point Stance and Log for answering.

[The Natural]

16 hours ago, SovietShooter said:

This was just a special occasion type of deal, Panther does not typically work with the mask on. This was just a throwback, kinda like how Jericho puts on the old Liontamer tights on occasion.

A few months back for one of the Halloween shows, CMLL had everyone that worked all wear their old masks, and at the end of the night they all came to the ring and removed them one by one in a ceremony.

 

 

14 hours ago, Coletti said:

Blue Panther was his usual maskless self in the CMLL v AEW tag match after which Danielson made the challenge, so Panther only wore the mask for that one on one match. 

 

13 hours ago, JLowe said:

And you know, I think that’s bullshit and don’t respect that he hooded back up. He made the decision, he lives with it.

 

7 hours ago, Eivion said:

I think the rule is they can remask after 5-10 years. Generally most don't outside of an entrance or special occasion. It was a special occasion for Blue Panther, and it seems he legit got permission from the Commission to remask for the match.

Thank you all too.

[Elsalvajeloco]

44 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

So I've been thinking about the HHH/Ospreay comments. When he first made them I thought he was talking about NXT level talent and was taking a shot at someone like Sammy Guevara who chose AEW over the 7 day a week training in the performance center. There's a discussion to be had there, I don't think either of those extremes is totally the right move but they work for those companies

But Ospreay on the main roster is different. I did a little research (not a ton so could be wrong) and I don't think it's the crushing schedule it used to be

WWE: Two TV shows plus two house shows a week, most likely only 3 shows a week plus a possible PLE and additional promotional appearances

AEW: One to three TV shows a week, plus a possible PPV, independent bookings, and self-promotion

That's not so different so I don't think it was so much workload for Will as much as he would have had to move to the States and take less money. But it's also not what HHH is portraying it as and WWE wrestlers aren't hardhat wearing blue-collar folks grinding it out for a paycheck

And the whole thing is moot if HHH wanted Ospreay to go to NXT and work the Coconut Loop. At this point in Will's career there's no way I would take that deal either

I have no dog in the fight, but it's not like Ospreay is some rookie. Okada definitely ain't a goddamn rookie. That first brush with the IWGP title was well over 10 years ago, and he (Okada) was already wrestling well before then. If the concern is anything, it's the fact that their bodies have already been through so much. If I was Paul or TK, the first thing I would be doing to putting on a schedule that preserves them so they can be on every notable show we have. Yeah, they might do an occasional TV match. However, based on how a lot of their notable, higher paid talent is treated (especially in WWE), they're getting treated like their special so they can maintain that sense of importance. At some point, guys like Hogan, Warrior, and Savage weren't doing matches on Superstars and Challenge unless it was a big time angle associated with it.

If there isn't going to be large talent turnover or annual cullings post WrestleMania *knock on wood*, then one of the priorities of the new ownership is not running them into the ground. Hence, why they probably don't look at the few non-televised live events they run as something they want to do anyway. Probably view them as antiquated and unnecessary injury risk.