Forbidden Door II - 6/25/2023

[odessasteps]

19 minutes ago, EVA said:

Speaking of injuries, I’m shocked we’re not here talking about another gruesome Hiromu neck injury. It looked like he went straight down on his head from that overhead belly to belly by Cobb. They never showed a replay to confirm that it was as bad as it initially looked, but the crowd down front was visibly horrified.

That's a move he prob should not be taking. You'd think the agent would have said something before the match. Trying to remember how Goodison English was when I met him years ago. 

[worldcupfever]

After seeing the spectacle of Jericho interrupting the scrum and TK reacting with the worst acting ever, I'm so glad I stayed up past the end of the show.

[Shartnado]

1 hour ago, AxB said:

Is that an intentional Kenny Everett quote. or merely a coincidence?

Kenny Everett was a British DJ and Comedian in the 70s and 80s, he died of Aids-related illness in 1995.

Absolutely intentional. The Natural is a known Kenny Everett fan, as am I.

 

As far as the PPV, it's pretty safe to say that I got my money's worth here and then some. I have not seen the WrestleKingdom match between the two but Holy F'N Shit that Ospreay v Omega match! Other matches were definitely worth it, too. Jungle Boy, WTF?!? It's an unrecognized title, don't turn heel for something like that! Besides, Hook will probably dismantle you due to this!

Edited June 26, 2023 by Shartnado
Actual thoughts on the PPV

[The Natural]

29 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Absolutely intentional. The Natural is a known Kenny Everett fan, as am I.

Indeed I do. Kenny Everett still makes me laugh. Find myself revisiting this one:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BekDvBVtbko&pp=ygUWc2lkIHNub3Qga2VubnkgZXZlcmV0dA%3D%3D

Edited June 26, 2023 by The Natural

[Fighting a man with a perm]

Took today off to watch this at my leisure. Great way to spend my day, happy with my choices!

From the pre-show: Swerve is giving serious star energy. Get him in the main event scene post haste! The look, the music, the unique style and confidence on the mic. Another pre-show chap serving future main eventer is Kyle Fletcher. That kid has something, and you can tell he sees himself as a future big dog!

I've realised that with MJF, less is definitely more. His promos bore me to tears because it's all so obviously try-hard. But his little moments in matches are great - mocking Tana's bow legs, his trash talk, his jawing with the crowd. I'm not a fan of older wrestlers carrying on past the point of mobility (see Hardy, Jeff and Hardy, Matt) so this version of Tana does nothing for me.

That reaction for punk! Fair play to him leaning into it. I was entertained.

Having lost the Handsome Battle and taking his aggression out on the cold hearted handsome devil, I expect Jack to go on a rampage against all the handsome men of wrestling - watch out Anthony Bowens!

Takeshita's new jacket giving him some extra pep! That forearm to Ishii was ooooooooooooof! Thought it weird that in the space of 1 promo this went from a blood feud between BCC and Elite into an Eddie Kingston joint. The Elite were supporting characters here. Story just feels like it skipped a few steps.

I felt sorry for Sting, he seemed out of it towards the end of his match. I think they need to push for retirement match sooner than later.

Omega-Ospreay was, to my eyes, great! I was out my seat on Kenny's OWA 1 count. It felt larger than life, and sometimes that's what I want in my wrestling, not realism. If I want realism, I can watch MMA or boxing or whatever.

I'm still processing Danielson - Okada. Can't decide if the fake seizure was enough to spoil some incredible storytelling otherwise.

On to my match of the night, the 4 way. This is my shit right here! My major complaint was this deserved at least another 5 mins. OC is the best wrestling storyteller on the planet and it's not close. ZSJ broke out some nasty joint manipulation and world class shit-talking. Shibata exudes menace and physical charisma. Garcia - his stupid dance cracks me up, that he used it to psyche himself up when he was taking constant shots was brilliant. I want him to develop a way of doing that dance while holding someone in the Dragon Tamer - I believe in you Daniel!!

[The Natural]

Thinking the four way was my MOTN but I am sleep deprived so bear that in mind.

[EVA]

The whole arena standing up for the first Mox/Eddie face-off like it was Hogan/Rock at WM18 sure was something.

[Brandon Bones]

I’m disappointed in this show as far too much of it just didn’t hit for me.

The Sanada match, the Jericho 6 Man, Toni/Willow, and the Main Event all fell flat for me.  

The 4 way was great however.  
 

Kenny/Osprey was pretty good.  
 

Meh.
 

 

[EVA]

The important thing to remember going into Sanada/Perry was that  Sanada is not any good. The fact that he’s the champ right now is really representative of NJPW’s sorry state of affairs in the heavyweight division. He’s champ because Okada needed to be able to lose this match and Tana and Naito are cooked and Ibushi and Jay White are gone and Ospreay is doing this thing with Kenny and EVIL was a dud and Shingo is Drew McIntyre. There was nobody else.

They desperately need to hit on Umino, Tsuji, and Narita for the sake of their very near future.

[The Natural]

7 minutes ago, EVA said:

The important thing to remember going into Sanada/Perry was that  Sanada is not any good. The fact that he’s the champ right now is really representative of NJPW’s sorry state of affairs in the heavyweight division. He’s champ because Okada needed to be able to lose this match and Tana and Naito are cooked and Ibushi and Jay White are gone and Ospreay is doing this thing with Kenny and EVIL was a dud and Shingo is Drew McIntyre. There was nobody else.

They desperately need to hit on Umino, Tsuji, and Narita for the sake of their very near future.

I've never rated SANADA either. I'd have put the IWGP World Heavyweight Championship on Zack Sabre Jr. I'd have given ZSJ the push Will Ospreay's had. If not, ZSJ, Shingo Takagi. I still hate everything about that fucking belt.

[Iron Moose]

Sorry if this has been said upthread -- it'll be challenging to reevaluate Okada-Danielson with the knowledge that the seizure sell was to get his broken arm looked at.

SANADA was ... OK. Looks great in a suit, but is undermined in the eyes of casuals (like myself!) by the "...huh?" of "just five guys" and the very poppy entrance and the ... blank space ... between his moves ... and also, not knowing his finisher, the moonsault came off as a deflating transitional move that happened to end things. He really needed a video package and more of a sense of who he is and how he works.

(contrast with Tanahashi, where it's really easy to infer things from the energy of his entrance and "GO ACE!")

[The Natural]

LOL.

Edited June 26, 2023 by The Natural

[The Natural]

 

[Teflon Turtle]

I'm a bit pressed for time and will probably have more to say later, but there's one thing about Omega/Ospreay that I wanted to get out there now.

I don't know if the commentary team was not supposed to mention Kota Ibushi at all, but the entire commentary desk missed the call on the Kamigoye. Excalibur referred to it as a V-Trigger. To me it fouled up a story moment in the match that should've been called out: Kenny once again growing enraged at someone invoking Ibushi, just like how he kicked out at 1 after the Young Bucks hit him with a Golden Trigger in the tag match with Hangman. And really, this led directly in to him kicking out of the OWA at 1 that many of you mentioned as a big moment. 

 

[The Natural]

Man, Forbidden Door is a cursed show: CM Punk first time, Tomohiro Ishii first time, Adam Cole both times and Bryan Danielson both times.

Edited June 26, 2023 by The Natural

[The Natural]

https://twitter.com/twcworldwide/status/1673139012167675904

Kojima! Lariat! Kojima! Lariat!

[Kevin Wilson]

Everyone is being very nice not talking about Sting, which as a big fan of Sting I appreciate. I don't think wrestlers should automatically stop wrestling at a certain age, or certain condition, but if a match is happening and I spend more time being concerned about a wrestler than enjoying what they are doing, maybe time to consider hanging it up.

I will say, and I don't think this was his fault, but something was really off with the table spot and aftermath. First, he took the table bump super odd, almost like he was supposed to roll off but forgot he was 62 and not 22 and didn't make it. If he wasn't supposed to roll off (which would have made sense and still told the same Sammy/Jericho story), he took the bump in the weirdest way possible, in a half 'roll off' position. Then, like 15 seconds later he is back in the ring like nothing happened, on offense. And it didn't come across as him 'hulking up' but just him hitting his next spot. So either the timing was messed up, he was supposed to move, or they were just going spot-to-spot-to-spot even if it made no sense. Anyway that was a weird match.

[Iron Moose]

30 minutes ago, Teflon Turtle said:

I'm a bit pressed for time and will probably have more to say later, but there's one thing about Omega/Ospreay that I wanted to get out there now.

I don't know if the commentary team was not supposed to mention Kota Ibushi at all, but the entire commentary desk missed the call on the Kamigoye. Excalibur referred to it as a V-Trigger. To me it fouled up a story moment in the match that should've been called out: Kenny once again growing enraged at someone invoking Ibushi, just like how he kicked out at 1 after the Young Bucks hit him with a Golden Trigger in the tag match with Hangman. And really, this led directly in to him kicking out of the OWA at 1 that many of you mentioned as a big moment. 

 

The Japanese announcers called it a Kamigoye, at about 1:20 in the video in the linked tweet

 

[Raziel]

I mean, yeah, 2 things were apparent in this show, and that it's 1) Tanahashi needs to have an honest conversation with himself that his time as a top guy is over, and if he wants to keep going, he needs to drop any aerial stuff and stay fully grounded, and enter his tag match grandpa stage.  He did amazing things and carried a promotion on his back for over a decade, but it's taken its' toll and short of a visit to Columbia, it's time to admit the downside.

2) Sting needs the same conversation.  It's been great for North-of-60 Sting to have a last hurrah, but its time.  He can't hide in cinematics anymore, and doing anything other than the "2 bump legends match" is producing ever diminishing returns.

[Curt McGirt]

Remembering a bunch of stuff: 

- Punk going for a chop and then just kicking Kojima in the shin

- The four-way clearly being planned out by Orange

- Willow/Toni being very, very solid. Also according to someone on the chat it was cold in the arena because of Saraya haha. And they did the three-way heel hug which always gets a pop from me. 

- THAT elbow from Lard Lad. Holy shit. 

EDIT: Oh, and Sanada finally showing some personality!

Edited June 26, 2023 by Curt McGirt

[EVA]

He was definitely supposed to move and just forgot how long it takes old bones to get moving from a prone position.

[odessasteps]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

Everyone is being very nice not talking about Sting, which as a big fan of Sting I appreciate. I don't think wrestlers should automatically stop wrestling at a certain age, or certain condition, but if a match is happening and I spend more time being concerned about a wrestler than enjoying what they are doing, maybe time to consider hanging it up.

I will say, and I don't think this was his fault, but something was really off with the table spot and aftermath. First, he took the table bump super odd, almost like he was supposed to roll off but forgot he was 62 and not 22 and didn't make it. If he wasn't supposed to roll off (which would have made sense and still told the same Sammy/Jericho story), he took the bump in the weirdest way possible, in a half 'roll off' position. Then, like 15 seconds later he is back in the ring like nothing happened, on offense. And it didn't come across as him 'hulking up' but just him hitting his next spot. So either the timing was messed up, he was supposed to move, or they were just going spot-to-spot-to-spot even if it made no sense. Anyway that was a weird match.

I got that way watching Blue Panther and Negro Casas the last few years. 

[The Natural]

13 hours ago, The Natural said:

Great match between Bryan Danielson and Kazuchika Okada. HATED the convulsions teaser knowing Bryan Danielson's history record. Don't do that to the fans. Never expected Bryan Danielson to submit Kazuchika Okada, think the last time he tapped out was 8 years ago in the G1 Climax 2015 to Shinsuke Nakamura. That's huge. Looks like Bryan Danielson has injured his right shoulder.

I was right:

Bryan Danielson, Forbidden Door 2023.

Shinsuke Nakamura, G1 Climax 2015.

That's a massive deal, submitting NJPW's biggest star. When you consider Zack Sabre Jr's submission skills and he wasn't booked to tap out Okada.

[Craig H]

48 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Man, Forbidden Door is a cursed show: CM Punk first time, Tomohiro Ishii first time, Adam Cole both times and Bryan Danielson both times.

I think it's a stretch to say it's a cursed show. Almost everything went off without a hitch. Injuries can happen at any time. Danielson is working on borrowed time so him escaping with just a fractured arm, which sounds like a minor fracture, isn't bad. And you can't do much about Adam Cole showing up with the flu. So that's like two dudes. Everything else was fine.

Kenny got dropped straight on his head and neck. Things could have been worse.

[worldcupfever]

42 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

Everyone is being very nice not talking about Sting, which as a big fan of Sting I appreciate. I don't think wrestlers should automatically stop wrestling at a certain age, or certain condition, but if a match is happening and I spend more time being concerned about a wrestler than enjoying what they are doing, maybe time to consider hanging it up.

I will say, and I don't think this was his fault, but something was really off with the table spot and aftermath. First, he took the table bump super odd, almost like he was supposed to roll off but forgot he was 62 and not 22 and didn't make it. If he wasn't supposed to roll off (which would have made sense and still told the same Sammy/Jericho story), he took the bump in the weirdest way possible, in a half 'roll off' position. Then, like 15 seconds later he is back in the ring like nothing happened, on offense. And it didn't come across as him 'hulking up' but just him hitting his next spot. So either the timing was messed up, he was supposed to move, or they were just going spot-to-spot-to-spot even if it made no sense. Anyway that was a weird match.

Yeah, it definitely did seem like he got stuck between taking the bump and being out of the way completely.  That said, it sort of looked like Sammy was on his was to killing himself on that flip if there hadn't been a body there to take some of the impact.

Whatever there is to be said about the match itself, it really was crazy to see the visual of Sting and Suzuki facing off.