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While absolutely a looser story, Hangman Page's storyline from the start of AEW to him winning the belt from Omega was definitely a good, long arc. They could have absolutely hammered it home better, and ending it just to give that goof Punk a vanity reign was a massive misstep, but it was definitely a good, long story. I'm probably missing some steps, getting some out of order, etc., but: Almost wins the belt from Jericho in the first title bout, gets too much too fast Meanders a while Tags with Kenny to win the tag belts That falls apart; Hangman talks about winning them back but Kenny wants nothing to do with the team, and turns heel Gets manipulated by FTR into screwing his longtime friends, the Bucks, so the whole Elite is gone and Hangman thinks it's his fault Is befriended by the Dark Order Gradually finds his confidence and strength through friendship, all the while Kenny is talking shit about how he'll always be below him Wins the world title I'd argue that AEW's story quality hasn't been the same since then. But you can put some of that at the feet of the Punk mess, Cole getting hurt, MJF getting hurt, and TK not really being the best at adjusting his booking plans due to injuries, etc.

Far more true for Dax than Cash, I thought. Especially when Cash was in there with Mox. Cash wrestles like a guy about to be in a road rage incident.

Per this discussion: When I watch wrestling, I want and love broader story arcs. I don't mean a story told in a single feud, but a narrative arc that takes a character or characters and grows them as they move through the story. Modern wrestling takes too much of the dumb in-ring shit from CHIKARA (that was good in the specific context in which it occurred), but not enough of the unifying story arc stuff that, while also dumb, was a unifying thread that encompassed more than just one feud in the company.. Lucha Underground was probably the closest thing we had to modernizing the broad concept of overarching story arcs. I've been watching a lot of WCW and have my complaints about the nWo arc never ending, but had it ended properly at Starrcade 1997, it would be a gold standard. That era of WCW has a series of story arcs that, while they go on too long and are usually booked into dullness by the end, are compelling and encompass a number of spots on the card. Raven's Flock is actually what I'm thinking of; that had a surprisingly satisfying story arc in which Raven used his free agency to get J.J. Dillon to agree that he could have hardcore matches for every one of his matches if he wanted, then he gathered lower-card losers like his buddy Stevie Richards who he knew he could control and used the power that he had from negotiating his contract to basically maneuver them like chess pieces into matches of his choosing within the scope limited by his contract. Eventually, he brought his long-time friend Saturn into the company as his second, but unlike the rest of the toadies that he convinced to follow him, Saturn had a mind of his own and ended up being the downfall of the whole Flock. There were missteps along the way, sure! It's not a perfect story. But from the point at which Raven shows up in mid-1997 to when the Flock is forcibly disbanded by Saturn in late 1998, we get this wonderful arc in which Raven tries to keep power over his followers using what he was able to negotiate in his contract and ultimately failing because one member of his group decided to push back against him. This was a roundly satisfying character story. Had Raven just disappeared from WCW television after this, it actually would have been perfect because it felt like his full story had been told. The other cool thing is that because other characters were caught up in it, it was able to sometimes fill multiple story spots in the company in an effective way, and in the midcard, no less. I don't think, beyond LU, there have been many or any stories in American wrestling that take eighteen months to tell a grand story about a character and then to wrap that story up narratively so I feel like I took a journey. That, I miss deeply and would love to see in more modern takes on pro wrestling. I understand that there are matches that are just there to be good matches, that there are looser character journeys that happen on wrestling shows, and that feuds are still a thing. But I don't think there's been anything nearly as effective as, say, the Savage and Elizabeth saga that started right before WM V and basically narratively completed at WM VII and that had people ugly crying on television in years. I don't watch AEW regularly or WWE at all, but I do read here and other places and have a sense of the big angles, and they don't seem to have the same sense of narrative that wrestling should have. Like, I hear people talking about Cody Rhodes "finishing the story," but what's the story? It's all based on this real-life truth that he was a career midcarder who left, raised his profile, and is back to become a world champ like his dad. That is a narrative story arc, but one which relies on knowing the real-life career goals of a guy playing a wrestler, which I find far less interesting than a story arc that is built around a character. In fact, real-life stuff is a crutch for long-term narrative arc storytelling. In the '80s, I had no idea as a kid that Randy and Liz had already been married for awhile, so them getting kayfabe married hit harder. Maybe you can't put the internet back in a box and shove it into the corner of the closet, but LU showed a formula for telling longform stories with clear character development in the internet era. Thank you for coming to my TEDx Talk.

We're getting back into those glory days of "I have no idea what he's saying but I understand what's happening" now that Will Osprey is here.

Thought the boy was asleep at the end of the show, but he shot up when Sting came down from the ceiling. He'd never seen that before.

I'm a big believer in the (Bill Watts?) philosophy that a regular tag team should always defeat two regular singles competitors thrown together in a one-off. Conversely, when a guy that regularly works tag matches works a singles match against a regular singles competitor, the tag guy should lose. Booking logic.

I think of U2 in 4 main eras: 1) Ascendant/Overtly Political - Boy thru Unforgettable Fire 2) Spiritual/Maturing - Joshua Tree and Rattle & Hum 3) Mature/Experimental - Achtung Baby thru All That You Can't Leave Behind 4) OH GOD WHAT HAPPENED. - Everything after... NYD is probably the quintessential song from U2 Mark I. Very angry, very righteous, very, very good. I tend to play it as the first song I listen to on the morning of 1/1. Mark II for me, and this may be a hot take... but "All I Want Is You" may be the most perfect song they have ever done. Mark III is "One". This is not up for debate. And the less said about Mark IV the better. Gun to my head... "Sometimes You Can't Make It On Your Own". I knew it was over when Bono said "Uno Dos Tres Catorce" and did the "I'm crazy" sign language. (This is a rabbit hole, I have a lot of thoughts about Bono & The Edge...)

Two awesome carry jobs last night from Stat and OC. Stat just rules so much. She's the absolute total package -- an athletic wunderkind but also understands her character and naturally connects with the fans. She's kind of like Bayley, except she's so strong physically she can't work underneath. Stat held everything together, let Sky Blue lean into the "lost high school freshman who met a lonely goth junior at the mall who convinced her steal a Ministry cassette tape" character stuff, and have a really good TV match. OC/Nick Wayne was along the same lines. OC was so generous in that match and (to no one's surprise) was in the right place throughout for Wayne to do his wild dives. Wayne reminds me a lot of a young Sean Waltman, who was the first heel cruiserweight I remember -- he knew when to preen and show-off and gloat. Having one of the best to ever understand that timing as your patriarch probably really helps with that. I love OC also selling his back progressively more throughout the match to set up the in-ring story for the Roddy match, with OC having an easy target for Roddy to target. Who else does that level of set-up than OC? He's one of the smartest workers to ever do it. It's no shock both OC and Stat are IRL best friends. They're both so good and get it.

Damn near every seg had something to do with progressing an angle. It's like TK lurks in various places and takes the criticism. Will Osprey is this close to needing subtitles. Don Callis has good comedic instincts. I LOL'd at him trying to diffuse the tension between Takeshita and Osprey when the fans were chanting for Osprey. It was Heenanesque. Apparently during the six man, somebody wiped out the table and the announcers had their drinks spilled all over them, leading to this exchange: Schiavone: I have to go into the ring for an interview next, looking like I wet myself! Tazz: That's normal for you, Tony. It may have been during the Atlantis/Jericho match...one wrestler went up top and Excalibur is just on this long, impassioned call of the action. He lays out for someone else to contribute and Tony just says, "yep." Excalibur fucking BROKE on that one. All the Eddie stuff in the six man was amazing. Everything else was kinda meh. I just don't like FTR. I feel like their "we're just old school guys aw shucks" thing is ridiculous, because their wrestling feels so performative and without actual weight. It's like they're just checking all the boxes of guys working an old school gimmick. All the criticism leveled at "indy guys" can be applied to FTR, but they get a pass because they name drop Crockett wrestlers. LOOOOOL @ Osprey's "track pants tucked into gym socks" look

That was the first time my girlfriend saw it live on TV, and she also went from a state of maybe-sleep to "holy shit!" (She had only ever seen it while I was getting high to monsoon classics or whatever)

The Darby mask moment was another WCW Sting classic call-out.

That was pretty obvious when he said he lost his luggage on the way to US. He probably just let go of the handle, got confused and then grabbed it again and was like "phew, I found it!" That being said, dumb or not, I can see people cheering for him making him do things that will go against the wishes of Callis. He's not outsmarting anyone, rather kinda outdumbing them by accident.

Terry as Denzel's friend

I personally seek raw catharsis from pro wrestling stories compared to stories in books, movies, or shows. I don't have any issues with a show or book narrative that lacks closure, but a pro wrestling story that lacks closure blocks me from catharsis and drives me up a wall. That's why pro wrestling stories are so important to me; something about them induces, for me, purer emotional reaction (in some ways) than if I read a great fictional book or see a great fictional film.

HAKU watches the Shockmaster debut for the first time ever: https://twitter.com/DarkSideOfRing/status/1763293822555947064

You know what was good storytelling in Wrestling? Crush Gals vs Dump Matsumoto and friends. You know what else was? Misawa vs Jumbo, and how it segued into Misawa & co vs Kawada & co. Now, at parts in both feuds, the wrestlers did speak into a microphone. I have no idea what any of them said (with the exception of the handful of YouTube videos that got subtitled), but wierdly I understand the characters and the story without knowing anything that they said.

I’m usually big on FTR but last night was one of those times where you could see everything being a performance rather than a fight.

Jericho was a good-looking guy back then. There may be some Hijo del Corozon de Leons wrestling somewhere in Mexico right now.

Switching one match that sounds like a Waffle House order for another...

Okay, I'll play nice. Those two are actually good songs.

I commented similar on FB, the Owen tragedy was entirely avoidable if WWF hasn’t taken a number of shortcuts.

Will Ospreay isn't a guy that should be booked to outsmart people. He's a dumb guy. He's like Davey Boy dumb.

The long lost cousin Jimmy Jack Earp.

Okay goddammit you gotta pull that out now (heh) And PWG is dead, for reals? Did Super Dragon totally retire? I know what the Bucks are up to now obviously. EDIT: "Not enough Day of the Jackal, bullet-in-the-crosshairs-finding-the-mark for me." Good lord Rollins tell us how you really feel haha EDIT II: DEAN liked all kinds of shit. I think the only time I posted on the green board (it was set up incomprehensibly so I left) was about the Cure and he said "Just Like Heaven" was the best pop song ever. But he grew up in the NVA hardcore scene and said Dinosaur Jr. was the loudest concert he'd ever been to and played in a country band (I think). All those song quotes at the end of the DVDVRs there for awhile, those had to be his picks, and they were all over the place. Man had multitudes.

Eh, he's a tag team wrestler. He should get beaten by skilled singles wrestlers. Of course, two singles wrestlers thrown together should be beaten, the majority of the time, by an established tag team as well.

I'm not sure, so I guess probably not. I mean all the Punk shit happened, and all of it derailed whatever Hangman's story was supposed to be. We never got the real payoff of "Hangman Page: Champion and Top Babyface" because TK figured Punk was the top and most visible guy and should be the champion. So then Page meandered for a bit again, got injured, rejoined the Elite (thus abandoning the Dark Order, which is a real head scratcher), and then got in a feud with Swerve and is now ostensibly a heel. So it's been a weird journey where he’s been aimless due to circumstances beyond his control. I do like his current arc of being obsessed with the title and losing himself. I hope this is some kind of Superman 4 thing where he sees what he's become and turns back, because he's really great as a wholesome yet asskicking babyface.

I think this may get at why I'm not as big on story stories in pro wrestling as I am on in-ring stories. The vast majority of pro wrestling stories aren't all that great, really. They work within the medium and can and are very satisfying there, but don't really hold up to really well-done stories in other mediums like tv show or books or movies or whatever. Also, most wrestlers don't have the chops to really pull off good acting. Like, the Bloodline stuff may have been a great pro wrestling story, but people saying the one Uso deserved an Emmy nom is ridiculous. Ron Killings is very funny within the context of pro wrestling, but his stuff wouldn't work on, say, a sitcom (although he may be funnier that a lot of what's on sitcoms nowadays). I think that may be why I lean into the in-ring stuff harder than the angles/promos/etc. It's the one thing I can get from wrestling that I can't get in other mediums I enjoy.

@HarryArchieGus I was going to say that what Eddie has gone through has been a pretty awesome story. I will most likely go to my grave thinking that when Eddie said to Mox that he will win the AEW title, bring it to her mother and say "This is why you don't have any grandchildren!" is the greatest line I have ever heard in wrestling! And he lost. And he lost some more. Until he clawed his way back and won and won some more, until it seemed to all collapse, but he pulled back and won everything, even over the guy who denied it the last time! That's pretty satisfying, eventhough it took a long ass while to get there!

Number 2 is still my favorite part of Page's story, the 'Hangman says 'Hold My Beer'' era. I loved his reckless abandon. The above got a bit cheesewhiz on the friendship tip, but I'd agree overall that it was a good story. I certainly can get behind a good story, Kingston for example has had several, but subtletly goes a lot further than the traditional Wrestling Story Arc generally allows. I'm more interested in character studies/character development than long term stories. The motivation of winning and being the best and inflated egos clashing with other inflated egos on similar journeys kinda covers things. As long as there are good promos on said road I can be more than satisfied. I get my fill of well told stories from movies and the seemingly endless number of cable and streaming television shows.

I love long term storytelling, but wrestling is not great at actually finishing the story and clearly moving on. I also love character development, but that's also pretty hard when the so called top promotion has been a plaything for the owner's perversions for god knows how long. That is the thing that AEW could really shine in, if they wanted to. Long term story telling with clear and satisfying character development. Combine that with strong intra-match logic and plenty of head-drops, flips and poison ranas and you would have me for life. Just saying. At this point, you probably already do, anyway, but still it would be nice. Thanks.

That do-si-do spot would have worked so well against Juice/Switchblade. Doesn't work in a match with "real ones" like the BCC and with Kingston at your side. Just a matter of context. I'm such a mark for when The Fantastics or The Rockers or RnR's would do a do-si-do. That was a fun match. I really liked how Mox pumped his fist and Claudio lorded the win over whichever FTR guy was on the floor (forget who.) It made their win seem important.

Visiting a close friend in NC for the weekend and we got to talking about wrestling (he isn't a huge fan). Long story short, him, my daughter, his girlfriend and myself will all be attending AEW Revolution. It will be my daughters first wrestling show ever and she'll be getting to see Sting's final match. She's so excited.

I want to clarify that when I said there needs to be increased shorter matches I definitely was not calling for a return of crash TV style where ever match ends with some bs. More give a variety of how matches both progress and end. More clear differences in hierarchy would be very good. If Mox runs through lower guys in 5 minutes it will mean more when one of those lower guys goes 10 with him. I feel like Tony Kahn is trying to meld North America TV wrestling with old school ROH match making and Japan roster hierarchy and it’s not perfect and I’m not sure if it will ever properly integrate

Oh shit! They should have the MEAT SCRAMBLE MADNESS match IN a WAFFLE HOUSE! It'd be the greatest thing since the Japanese Bath House match.

Yeah, full vest. No doubt everything was thoroughly tested then again and again. I enjoy the Little Log updates. Maddening. Don't cheap out like that. BS the show continued as well. I noticed that too. In WCW, Sting sometimes had a self release while other times he didn't if I remember rightly. Aww.

It also looked like Sting's harness didn't have a self-release. I thought I saw Darby unhook it for him.

Yeah it's understandably difficult not to have the thought, but the apparatus they had him in appeared to be super secure at least on TV, it was like a full upper-body vest (as opposed to poor Owen who was basically hanging by a keychain). I have no doubt they tested, re-tested, and tested again

Nick Wayne's Theme Song is something..."About to leave with the title and somebody's daughter" is pretty good for a 18 year old guys theme. Loved FTRKingston vs BCC Atlantis Jr/Jericho was tough to watch at times. Never a fan of the "Repel from the cealing" after Owen, but as a 1 time for Sting, OK. I was going to buy the PPV anyway but this was a good kickoff to "go home week" (Collision is the actual go home show)

Honestly, if they want to give Will Ospreay the rocket push while keeping him out of the title hunt for now, they should have him be smart. Have him absolutely stuff the turn attempt by Don Callis, and then cut the following promo. "Don, I'm not a bloody idiot. I've seen what happens to your "Family" members. I've talked to Kenny (Omega). I've talked to Chris (Jericho). I even talked to Sammy (Guevara). One of us was getting stomped into the ground tonight after the match, and because I KNOW you didn't tell me that you wanted Takeshita out, I knew I suddenly had a target on my back, ready for the knife to be stuck in. So, for once, someone's going to be one step ahead of you And if you think about getting revenge, don't. I'm a better wrestler then your family, and I'm sure as hell SMARTER then your Family is." Then Callis goes NUTS (How DARE someone outsmart him), throwing Takeshita and Hobbs at Ospreay relentlessly, probably with Fletcher joining Ospreay to take losses in tag matches to further the feud (gotta give the heels SOMETHING), and then when a certain someone is ready, have them take out Fletcher and say "You have no tag partner now".. and Ospreay says "I was one step ahead of you AGAIN, Callis.. I called a favor in with an old enemy of mine, who wants to kick your ass as much as I do". The Return of Kenny Omega. The place comes unglued.

If you can’t smile when Sting comes down from the rafters while Schiavone marks out, I can’t help you. Just a giant bigass smile on my face.

I have never even heard of anyone being anywhere near Cam Newton without thinking that Cam is the largest person they've ever seen. People who have been covering sports for 30 years all have the same reaction. LeSean McCoy while discussing the fight said, "I just saw him at the Super Bowl, and I had forgot just how big he is." Spencer Hall who spends his life covering college football said, "I know Cam Newton isn't the largest person I've ever met, but Cam Newton is the largest person I've ever seen." Bomani Jones said something to the effect of, "if you heard a 7 year old upon seeing Cam Newton say, "who is that big motherfucker over there?" You would not be surprised that he cursed, you'd be surprised that a child so young knew the correct technical term." I say all of that to ask, "why do you think you can beat up Cam Newton?"

I always kinda wondered if I would like War and whatever early singles or whatever. I rented The Joshua Tree from the library one time and just thought "what is this shit". My experience with downloading all the Police stuff was moderately better, it's just not my kinda stuff, but I like some songs (mostly the hits). This is unrelated to any opinions about I have about rich pretentious white rock stars who prefer their philanthropy to be performed as loud and obnoxious as humanly possible.

Well said, fellas - this kinda "tonal discrepancy" thing is more or less exactly what I wanted to articulate this morning

I wonder why that is? In any case, I really, really liked the trios match and during Cash being in there with Mox, I was thinking he's another one of those short, but strong and agile explosive wrestlers in PAC vein and would love to see those two go batshit against one another!

Yeah, I certainly don’t want anyone reading my posts the last couple days and come away thinking I think AEW is perfect. It isn’t. I could make a list multiple pages long of booking decisions they’ve made that I don’t like. I think they’ve been over reliant on the young bucks, who have never proven themselves to be a draw at this level, the decision not to have S&O win the tag titles at any point is baffling. The treatment of Adam Cole as a top star is puzzling, and the hesitance to elevate stars like Malakai Black & Ricky Starks to the tippy top is confusing to me. This “bang bang scissor gang” thing is a giant barrel of ass juice, although I think they’re eventually gonna merge the trios titles from this angle. I also think losing Juice Robinson to injury hurt the BCG guys. In spite of that, I also think AEW is doing a ton right, and the biggest thing they can do in 2024 is weather the storm and keep putting on a great product. Wwe is hot right now, but their business has always been cyclical. I still don’t really understand the notion that the wwe product is “good” right now. It’s largely the same shit in a Vince-free package, and that in and of itself doesn’t make it good. We’ll see where they are I’m six months.

Pull-up bar might be your best bet. Pull-ups are a PITA to scale, but it's better for overloading than what you probably have on hand. Pull day for me was pretty good - did 175 for 4x7 on bent-over rows, which were a little bit crap on form, but I'm pretty sure that's a PR for me anyway, so 4 sets of that is good nonetheless. This is probably the closest and hardest I've pushed towards rowing bodyweight. Rest of the workout was fine for accessory work and volume. Dunno what I'm going to do for the next Pull day, though; I haven't done DLs or T-bar rows in a few weeks. Maybe it's time for a Way, Truth, & Light workout again.

I am in week six or seven of "does anyone involved with the Acclaimed or the Bang Bang Gang even remember why they even considered teaming up?" so... I will respectfully disagree Also touching on what someone else said, I don't think we need a flood of matches that end in a few minutes via shenanigans... but a sharp uptick in 4-5 minute matches where the much higher in the hierarchy guy takes 80+% of the match as opposed to the now typical 55/45 split? That I will sign up for.

I feel like they won't go the multiman match way other than maybe to decide who challenges Gunther. Right now they are just putting forward multiple names to keep people guessing.

that's the most Arn Anderson promo eulogy he could have given