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It's cool we'll do the moderating. Thanx

I mean I get it with Slim Jim hopping back on. They probably have a very surface level understanding of - "According to the internet, that guy is the bad guy right? Make him gone and we're good." It's a low bar to jump over, but at least they were willing to do it. The rest of us are, understandably, like that It's Always Sunny gif of Charlie and the Conspiracy Board yelling "You don't know how deep this runs Slim Jim!" I'm glad Vince is being taken out. I can't overlook the small victories. But, like many of you, I need a little more. But that will have to come from someone else, and it's not some company who was just trying to get their product in front of some eyeballs. It needs to be a human being, and I know there's one somewhere in that fucking shit hole, and I just wish they'd say any thing.

Feels like an opportunity to keep his job if Endeavor is really thinking about purging Vince cronies. But that hinges on Kenny Wrestlefart from Ken's Wrestlefarts dot com asking a moderately tough question.

They snapped out of it

So I didn't read the complaint (didn't feel like I had the stomach for it) but was talking online with a friend of mine who works as more or less a guidance counselor for at-risk kids as he worked his way through it and what stuck out to him was how much Vince was manipulating everyone he came in contact with in this complaint. The poor woman obviously got the worst of it, but he was even having the woman lie about things to Laurinaitis when they first became "acquainted" and he was quite literally Vince's partner in crime (he learned more later and still continued, that sure as shit don't absolve him). Lesnar comes off as a true asshole but it didn't appear at any point he was aware that this wouldn't be consensual. I point this out as I've seen a lot of people going "of course people knew" and so forth but from reading the complaint what he told me was how much it stuck out that Vince tried to keep several people in the dark about several aspects of all this, with only some people at a corporate level seeming to really get any sort of clue about this and in all likelihood no idea just how fucking depraved it got. I think it is worth keeping in mind that Vince as a matter of his daily life is probably manipulating everyone around him, lying to them, letting them only now certain bits of info, he's an actual fucking sociopathic predator. The actual wrestlers in the locker room probably thought he was a not a good person (especially after all the NDA stuff came out) but it seems very unlikely that Vince this aspect of his existence, for that particular mask to slip in front of them unless they were bizarrely close, and even then I doubt he was ever anything approaching honest.

Keep in mind that social media sucks and magnifies everything especially the negative stuff. Curt got those memes on FB, from who? Don't know. Could be from a meme farm or another entity that is not a wrestling fan and should not necessarily be taken as representative of the average wrestling fan

Could we get rid of all the things we call Vince-isms: Medical Facility, Championship Opportunities, Faction, ....

Someone earlier said something about people like Vince being master manipulators. To go off of that, the more I hear about all this and look into it, it is so clear that Vince was an expert predator who knew exactly how to get to the point of interpersonal power he was looking for. She was in some form of financial trouble and her parents dying had her in a very vulnerable place. Introduced by a mutual acquaintance, Vince offered friendship with helping financially and always wanting hugs. Even one day inviting her over while he was in his underwear, this all comes across as him putting himself in a position where he is a ~friend~ but subtly introducing more uncomfortable things to try an push the boundaries of their friendship in the disguise of being a rich buddy. He gets her a very high paying job and then eventually discloses that the job entails a physical relationship with him and others. The rest you can guess where it all leads. Assault, rape, threats of ruining her character, her having panic attacks begging to stop a future rape being left to deaf ears, her repeatedly saying Stop literally at her place of work before and during the rapes, distributing nude and compromising photos of her to mutual coworkers, and so much more degrading and inhumane actions by Vince and others. Anyone who is implying what is being alleged is a girl who isn’t getting checks anymore for a mutual consenting relationship (not here, but I’m reading moronic statements elsewhere) is a dumb piece of shit. The fact that we have actual text messages where Vince is coming across like a demonic 14 year old is pretty damning for him. Fuck him was typing more but derped out

Oh god that's the most unflattering way for him to go out and it's definitely most deserved RF: we're here today with easily the most influential figure in professional wrestling of all time, and thank you for *inaudible*. So obviously, first question, in 1993, you bought Greg Valentine back into the territory *inaudible*, umm, what are your memories of *inaudible mumbling*

Bobby Valentine disguise.

I know Lex has his own podcast now. However, someone needs to sell him on having a Lex Luger soundboard segment of his verbal grunts throughout his career and then have him guess the match.

Ellering is definitely the sassy gay neighbor of Bobby in this show.

I don’t know I feel like if you asked me ten tears ago if Vince was doing something like this to someone I would be like “I figured.” And I’ve never been within a mile of the guy. And there’s almost no way this a sudden urge and idea he got in 2021. He’s been doing things Like this for as long as he’s had the ability to probably. And he’s not a subtle guy. And he clearly saw it as a way to deal/coerce/tempt people, one of whom was head of personnel for decades. There’s just no way to stay and be clean of this ‘stay tuned to Netflix for a moving tribute to the great jimmy Snuka

Good riddance.

There's nothing wrong with taking a break. I'm not giving up though. Like I stated above, I'm too angry not to, and I'm not letting anyone steal away one of the few things in my life that keep me breathing.

If you wanna make a low-effort protest against WWE, watch an illegal stream of the Rumble instead of peacock.

People can be victims in some circumstances and predators/enablers in others. Vince himself was a victim of physical and sexual abuse as a child. In no way does it excuse his actions as an adult. It's possible to have sympathy for Stephanie for what she went through as a child (and given some of the long standing rumors out there...), but she isn't immune from consequences if she enabled Vince as an adult by doing clean-up work for him to stay in power.

Ronda should come back and use her sandy hook on Bruce... Alternatively: You'd think Ronda'd be on board denying something awful happened to push agendas... Add in : Worst person you know makes a good point pic.

Turns out that Slim Jim isn’t exactly leading the revolution

If we get Dragon vs. Sasuke then I want Dragon vs. Onita too. Dragon vs. Yuki Ishikawa, even in exhibition form. Versus Park, of course. Jun Kasai. Ricky Morton. Demus. Dr. Wagner Jr.

I kinda want to see Dragon vs L.A. Park. Has he wrestled Kikutaro before? I'd like to see that too. Hell, bring in The Great Sasuke too.

- Really liked Moxley vs. Moriarty. Everyone knows that the strike exchange is worn out worse than your socks at the very back bottom of the drawer, but when you throw forearms as loud as that? Moriarty did something I think I've never seen that before and that's stop the corner punches before ten just to piss off the crowd. Good job kid. Moxley tried to flick Shane's cap off and failed, so had to physically grab it, haha. Lee actually seemed like Mox was willing to put him over in spots with this and that's about as good as you can ask for. Meanwhile, BCC didn't run in during the beatdown... well, we know where this is going. - Takeshita match was an ass-stomp of course. Hey, with this at least you can't complain about him just throwing bombs because that's what he's supposed to do. Not on the level of the Darby squash, but then what is? And do you really want to see Daniels' career shortened that bad? - Didn't watch much of Anna/Ruby but I'll give it to Ruby, she's always willing to take the fall and look good doing it. - Eddie could barely contain himself when he brought up Nagata. He is gonna be right at the curtain in Gorilla peeking out, mark my words. Willie Mack gets a shot for a shot! Should be good, and I bet he wins. - My attention also took a nose dive for the main. Call it the Kip Effect. Butcher looks so much better without hair up top.

I'm still holding to my prediction that he basically traces Joe Paterno's footsteps. His life's work in ruins, rightly drummed out of his personal fiefdom in disgrace, and just... doesn't continue.

That complaint was really damning. Usually complaints are just words and what is alleged. Sometimes there are some pictures or something. Putting text messages out like that absolutely sealed the deal. The other thing in the complaint that was interesting is how easy it pointed to Brock. The other people who knew things but not sued all had things like “Corporate Officer #4.” They put Brock out there on blast. No attempt at anonymity at all. Her attorneys are really interesting. The woman taking the lead in the press is named Ann Callis. She ran for Congress as a Democrat a few years ago and was a judge in Illinois. I have no clue if she and her firm have done sexual harrsssment claims. But their website talks about all the class action damages they have won against really huge companies. (“We represent everyone who ever smoked a cigarette and now we are suing Philip Morris for $10 billion.”) The “actual” lead attorney is a corporate attorney from Connecticut — he does things like “I represent this big company against this big company.” I am guessing they needed the Connecticut attorney since he’s in the Connecticut bar. It also helps if you have a Connecticut attorney who probably knows (or knows people who know) the judge and the lay of the land. Callis is based in St. Louis. I forget how it works in terms of how you can represent people if you’re not in that state’s bar exam. But such an interesting mix. Usually, you will see an attorney who specialize in workplace discrimination law handle a case like this. You don’t see corporate attorneys or class action firms take on cases like this. I am so curious as to how this woman picked them.

No. I could see him faking it to escape though. Paul London just needs to keep a straight face for him to pull it off this time.

Vince fucked with the money, and that’s really the only rule in capitalism. Don’t fuck with the money.

Okay here's the deal. This is an upsetting story. People are upset. If it upsets you that people get upset, don't be shitty at them because they're upset. AND If you're upset, don't lash out at everyone because your upset. It's unhealthy and honestly unhelpful. We're all trying to sort out how we feel, and up until now we were doing it pretty well. We had disagreements, and most of us tried to listen and be respectful. There are no winners in this story. If you can't handle talking to each other like human beings over this inhumane shit, I start giving a week off to anyone involved in the conflict. Both sides. Doesn't matter if we're personally cool or not. Walk away from your keyboard. Mute the person that's bothering you. It's best for everyone else who've come here to connect to other fans and find some shelter from the storm. I'm going to go have a date night with my wife and celebrate my sister giving birth to a baby girl. When I come back, y'all better be cool to each other.

Yeah, loose accusations based on assumptions sit weird with me, especially considering my own past with abusers and how well they can cover their tracks if they want to. It's foolhardy to assume someone knew based on proximity to the abuser, or the abuser's boldness.

Scott Hudson being great has been discussed many times IIRC. Lex Luger, whose greatness has also been discussed, missed the boat on 1 thing though. He could have had an Iron Shiek or Terry Funk sized postprime career if he would have had brains enough to capitalize on his gaffes. “I DON’T KNOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWW!!!” was right up there with “make you humble” and others.

I'll second this, I always really, really enjoyed Hudson in the booth (particularly on the weekend shows) and in many ways, I think he suffered from being put in a series of impossible situations from '99-'01: 1) having to follow Schiavone - obviously there's plenty to be critical of Tony about when it comes to late era WCW, but he was (and is again!) the guy we all grew up with. So with that, Hudson started on Nitro behind the 8 ball to a degree from just a "who's the new guy?" perspective alone 2) Being put in a similar position as the aforementioned Schiavone in having to sell a lot of awful bullshit with a straight face. This was also made 1000x worse by his having to sit next to dickhead Mark Madden doing his "How do you do, fellow kids?" routine, making Jay & Silent Bob references in a fucking Hawaiian shirt and sunglasses. 3) His WWF 'Invasion'-era tryout with Arn on color was the Buff/Booker match from Tacoma in July, and we all know what happened there. Shit match, apathetic crowd, and while Arn's obviously an all-time promo, color wasn't his strong suit; he just really didn't give Hudson a lot to work with at all, so Hudson defaulted to a 'play by play' mode which, while I obviously think it's rad, its also historically the polar opposite of what WWF/E has wanted out of its lead announcers ('We tell stories!') So I think that was that. FWIW I saw an interview with him years and years ago and he said he's pretty happy and making good money doing some kind of forensic crime lab shit (Possibly for the FBI? I may be misremembering that last detail).

in the spirit of the "AI booked wrestling promotion" joke in the Vince thread, i'm guessing if there was a wrestler with 6 fingers ala AI Hands, that 6 fingered wrestler could use a clawhold with the wrestling logic that "he has an extra finger, making his clawhold extra effective" (even if most people with extra fingers just have like a nub for the extra digit) "He had an extra toe which makes his kicks more powerful" isn't any more absurd than the whole "loaded boot that can be kicked into place" thing, is it?

It's frustrating. I feel like at one point in history people would have. But since maybe 1980 or so we have had three generations just swamped with the propoganda that "business" has nothing to do with morality or humanity. It's frankly more illegal or will lead to your justifiable firing to do the "right" thing in almost any situation because "the right thing" would violate your fiduciary legal obligation to maximize growth for your stockholders. People have gotten so good at thinking like that, and so much of those decisions is filtered through just paperwork...no people, just papers, numbers. People who are fucked over by other people pulling levers at other companies will, without even a thought of dissonance, pull levers on other people because "that's the job." and to question that apparently makes you insane. Because those business rules overrule everything else. Why? Because it's somehow ordained by some God somewhere that anything else is a violation of business logic. So it's not even a hard choice. They make it sound so tempting "your professional obligations...be rational about this...real jobs are at stake. that's real jobs...those rapes that's moralist abstractions...but these spreaadsheets aren't going to balance themselves!!!!!" So of course everyone nods their head. To do anything else would mark you as obviously insane. So march on, Slim Jim soldiers. March on WWE SUPESTARS! You're the real heroes!!!!!! Getty images of SLim Jims being manufactured. I think there was a movie about this. It was called Drag me to Hell. It was about some low level bank employee that got what she earned and how in the end no one at the bank cared and no one else cared that she did "the job right."

I was lucky enough to see the Great Sasuke vs Swerve Strickland in 2019. Sasuke wasn’t really mobile, but he was doing sweet mysticism to give Strickland a tummy ache. https://www.instagram.com/p/BsSPexjFq-J/?igsh=ank4aTN0ZzNxeGE3

We need a beef jerky company with integrity and we need it NOW

Hopefully we don’t see Hunter answering questions about Vince’s behavior while wearing a wig and glasses.

Is this worse than comparing the steroid trail to 9/11? Tough choice.

Well, they fired the guy named in the lawsuit, and probably some other people later too. Decades of injustice completely fixed, just like that. It was a dark two days, but everything is right again. Now, as members of the WWE Universe, let's all tune in for the Royal Rumble tonight, the first stop on the road to WrestleMania!

I’m glad to hear TKO did the right thing, even if I’m sure it wasn’t for the right reasons. Just have to hope that they don’t stop there and continue to investigate who else was involved, aided and abetted, etc.

A lot of shit here to process... As far as "who knew what", I'm willing to give a broad pass for now. Because I think we all assumed; you, me, John Cena, and everybody else, that there was a culture of quid pro quo sexual harrassment in WWE. And that's already a horrible thing, but it's also a pervasive thing throughout society, and I think all of us collectively just held our nose walking by and compartmentalized it. And I believe it generally falls under tort law, so it doesn't carry the stigma that a criminal act of rape does, even though it should. But this? This is beyond horrific. This is a man who, upon meeting a young woman whose parents had just passed, his mind immediately went not to any sympathy or empathy, but, "Hey, what a great opportunity to mold my own personal sex slave!" And then proceeded to subject her to rape, gang rape, imprisonment, and coprophilia. You could know full well that Vince was a pervy old man and still not be aware that he was capable of these depths of depravity. The important thing to me is what comes next. There has to be full mea culpas from Vince's long-time defenders. And the sad thing is there won't be from all of them. I mean, guys like The Rock and Cena who have ongoing careers to think about, it would be in their best interest to make a clean break and make it yesterday. But a guy like Taker? I think you could find a torture dungeon full of womens' corpses in Vince's basement and Taker wouldn't badmouth the man. I think we'll have to be done with Taker, but then I think a lot of people started that process anyway when they started to realize that he presided over a disgusting locker room culture for decades, and in particular participated in a gay-bashing sketch that may have ultimately contributed to Chris Kanyon's suicide. But Mark Callaway's got nothing to lose or gain at this point, so he'll probably sit back in his Texas mansion doing his little youtube Mt. Rushmore lists and patting himself on the back for not "betraying his friend". What about Triple H and Steph? It's a weird situation. I definitely think Steph was a victim. I have no doubt Vince was and is capable of incest. He sexualized his daughter from the moment he put her on TV. Rather than coming out about it, I think she played the long game of revenge, hoping to stay in his good graces long enough to take the company over and scrub it clean of him. And I think Triple H came along with her on that ride. Just go back 20 years to the reports of him watching Samoa Joe's tryout with Vince and burying him for being "too indy", then fast forward to Trips booking him like a monster in NXT. Obviously he was playing a role. The problem is this: in playing the role, how many foul acts did the two end up collaborating in? The Ryan Nemeth AMA someone posted is just one example where Triple H had to be Vince's heavy to the locker room regarding sexual harrassment. I mean, if you cozied up to Stalin in order to eventually take him down, and he had you take charge of a few liquidations along the way, how much culpability do you ultimately have? Now obviously the relationship between Vince and his daughter and son-in-law became more contentious in the last few years, but I think there's gonna have to be some significant signs that they were working against Vince behind the scenes to keep them from getting scrubbed along with Vince. And yes, I know a lot of people are worried that Vince will once again Houdini his way through this...but no, I don't think so. He's done. This is Epstein-level shit. It's not his company any more. He's clearly more liability than asset, not to mention he's practically geriatric at this point. They're probably figuring out how to Benoit him out of company history as we speak...

I would say so in light of certain threads that have been started. There is still time for Roop to legally change his middle name to "Definitely Not Sweetan".

The early 80s mid South women's matches are pretty surreal - months of nothing, several weeks of trailing that the Popular Girl Wrestlers will be appearing, Wendi Richter/Princess Victoria/Velvet McIntyre turn up and have a completely serious athletic contest, in the middle the wrestlers fall on top of the ref and they do a chauvinist comedy spot where they roll around and the ref gets embarrassed/horny, then the finish is something completely standard for the promotion. Like Watts' stern wrestling values and hatred of gaga led to him presenting women's wrestling more seriously than most other promotions did for decades I thought Roop was absolutely dishwater when I started watching Mid South, but there was a great guest commentary week in 82 where he was lobbying for Ted Dibiase to get fined for interfering in a match, and Boyd Pierce hulks up and cuts an angry (for Boyd) promo on him telling him he's there to commentate not advance his own agenda; Roop spends the whole thing doing this magnificent shocked/embarrassed/bug-eyed look and then spends the rest of the show doing the most exaggerated best-behaviour "these sure are two fine athletes" babyface commentary possible. So they did sort of have an onscreen reason for him to commentate so neutrally going forward. I guess he was very well cast as a creepy political manipulator who was always complaining about something

George South: Trainer of Champions. And Big Swole.

We will probably see it (cross yer fingers) but definitely Casas, of course. I can't think of him NOT facing Casas before he hangs 'er up.

Bryan Danielson versus Mance Warner infront of 80 people at a GCW show

When they start tweeting various versions of "I hope the actions of one and only one evil man are not allowed to taint or destroy the legacy of the WWE Universe for all those we have inspired and empowered over the years." then we'll know what they were hearing behind the scenes...or at least what they were told to say.

My gut reaction is to feel like that. But I try to take a breath and be understanding. Not everyone has the strength, you know? BUT This thought goes through my head: Imagine fighting a guy over using real glass in a match you're not in and threatening to walk out of the biggest show in the company's history. Then you leave and work for people you've called bootlickers and embarrassing humans. Then this happens. What do you do? I'd give anything for Punk to be the guy he wants us all to think he is.