Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Brian Flores v. NFL


Cobra Commander
 Share

Recommended Posts

At the risk of not seeming like I appreciate the gravity of what he's alleging, unless he's got some serious receipts... this is seeming a lot less like the earth shattering news it did at first.  

The Dolphins asked him to throw games and wanted him to tamper to get Brady. That's (internally to the NFL) bad, but I don't see "racism" there. 

The Giants interviewed him after he figured out via an incorrectly sent text that he wasn't their top choice.  Which sucks, but it is going to be hard to accuse them of racism because they have a ton of plausible deniability.  

The Broncos showed up late, and in some cases drunk.  So, that's really not good.  They were clearly not serious about him and wasted his time.   They may have the hardest time out of anyone.  

Beyond that...  

I don't know.  I really hope there's something more to this.   The interview this morning was weird.   Flo gave halting, tenuous answers, and his lawyers interrupted him on multiple occasions.  It kind of seemed like he didn't want to be there and/or wasn't prepared.  

And look, I know the NFL has some absolutely racist or otherwise discriminatory people and practices.  Kaepernick is enough to prove that.   

Have they tried to get better?  Arguably yes.  Arguably no.   

But as of now... this is going to be a tough thing to prove, especially with whatever white shoe law firm the NFL and the owners are sure to retain.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's the whole thing

He absolutely is right in challenging the NFL as a whole.

HOWEVER, his case will be weakened by challenging each of his individual claims by lawyers

Like with the Giants example - he basically admitted that was the job he wanted and tried to imply that he was only interviewed to satisfy the Rooney Rule. However, the Giants had already interviewed both Patrick Graham and Leslie Frazier to satisfy the Rooney Rule requirement before Flores had his interview.

He definitely needs other folks joining his suit

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems like his issue with the Dolphins is a seperate case, less a racism issue and more of a whistleblower thing. They fired him for not being willing to act unethically. If he's got the paper trail to back it up he probably would have a better chance winning that on its own than he does tying it into a larger racism suit.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, The Comedian said:

It seems like his issue with the Dolphins is a seperate case, less a racism issue and more of a whistleblower thing. They fired him for not being willing to act unethically. If he's got the paper trail to back it up he probably would have a better chance winning that on its own than he does tying it into a larger racism suit.

Along with this specific point - Hue Jackson tweeted last night basically confirming that he was given bonuses for tanking when he was coaching the Browns.

The executive director of his (Jackson's) foundation said they had records that supported Flores' case

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We all know that the NFL has a problem with minority head coaches, but unless he has some evidence that specifically state "we didn't hire so and so because he's black"(or something similar) I'm not sure he has a case. Scummy? sure, but maybe not illegal. It sounds more like sour grapes because he didn't get the job he wanted. More power to the suit, but I think he just torched his career without a backup.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Gonzo said:

And after everything that happened today, we get HAWT TAKES like this one:

Yes, Minnesota's new GM. . .a 40-year old black man who 7 or 8 years ago wasn't involved with the NFL at all and has been entrusted with every aspect of the Vikings' football operations by the Wilf family. . .is racist because he wants his first move to be hiring Jim Harbaugh to coach his football team.

Jesus tap-dancing Christ.

I think you missed the point.  The issue isn't hiring Harbaugh, the issue is having a black dude sit through a 9 hour interview for a job you already decided to give to someone else.  The Rooney Rule is well intentioned but it doesn't really address the problem, because the owners don't actually want to fix the problem.  The entire issue is that as a society we have an unwavering commitment to maintaining the status quo.  They clearly interviewed Brian Flores after already deciding to hire Brian Daboll.  They performatively interview black candidates to make it look like they are giving black people a chance, but they've shown time and time again that they don't actually have any intention on hiring more black head coaches.  I don't know if they can prove any of this in court, but that doesn't actually matter to me.  What matters is that a league that is 70% black there is only one black head coach.  The only way that makes sense is if either black people don't want to coach, which we know is false or that somehow the vast majority of the people who perform the job at the highest level can't teach the game, which is not an argument you'd make about any other industry.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Kuetsar said:

We all know that the NFL has a problem with minority head coaches, but unless he has some evidence that specifically state "we didn't hire so and so because he's black"(or something similar) I'm not sure he has a case. Scummy? sure, but maybe not illegal. It sounds more like sour grapes because he didn't get the job he wanted. More power to the suit, but I think he just torched his career without a backup.

Hi there black person, we know that you are probably right thinking this job is racist, but unless your boss looked you in the face, on camera, with a notary public there to witness saying, "I am racist and that's why I'm firing you," you should probably be quiet about it if you ever work again.  Never mind your dignity or your humanity, just be quiet and hope these racist assholes hire you again.  FTFY.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The biggest problem with the Rooney Rule right now is that black coaches know that it is bullshit and they aren't even trying anymore.  Which unfortunately feeds the "well if you don't interview you don't deserve it" thought among owners.    

  

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Along with this specific point - Hue Jackson tweeted last night basically confirming that he was given bonuses for tanking when he was coaching the Browns.

Why do I feel like this is Hue trying desperately to explain why Cleveland was so awful while he was there in a way that makes it not his fault?

Jackson apparently alluded to this same allegation a couple days ago by saying "They didn't want me to!" when somebody said "if only you could have done that for the Browns", in reference to Cincinnati winning.

Edited by Tabe
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Marvin Lewis sharing another story of what we all already know happens

The Richardsons (no shock here) blatantly lied to Lewis (and Ozzie Newsome) and Lewis knew not to trust them but he knew he still had to do the interview or it would reflect poorly on him in the future

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think everyone agrees that teams do sham interviews just to meet the Rooney Rule requirements, hell the Bills just did it a few days ago with their OC job. And that practice should definitely stop. The issue is that in this particular case, Flores doesn't really have a case for it based on what we know, so he really needs some other former coaches to join him or to have some earth shattering piece of evidence that we don't have yet.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I think everyone agrees that teams do sham interviews just to meet the Rooney Rule requirements, hell the Bills just did it a few days ago with their OC job. And that practice should definitely stop. The issue is that in this particular case, Flores doesn't really have a case for it based on what we know, so he really needs some other former coaches to join him or to have some earth shattering piece of evidence that we don't have yet.

Let's suppose he gets 20 coaches to join in and say "yeah, I had a sham interview".  Does that actually help Flores prove his case?  Or does it just prove that teams feel compelled to follow the Rooney Rule?  And I mean those questions from a legal lawsuit perspective not a "we really know what's going on here" perspective.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It seems what most people are hoping is that even if Flores loses - he makes the NFL, at a minimum, go through discovery since that would be bad for them.

(Hence another reason folks immediately started comparing him to Curt Flood)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, RIPPA said:

Along with this specific point - Hue Jackson tweeted last night basically confirming that he was given bonuses for tanking when he was coaching the Browns.

The executive director of his (Jackson's) foundation said they had records that supported Flores' case

To follow up on this - the Browns put out a statement flat out calling Jackson a liar.

The exact quote is "The recent comments by Hue Jackson and his representatives relating to his tenure as our head coach are completely fabricated."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

It seems what most people are hoping is that even if Flores loses - he makes the NFL, at a minimum, go through discovery since that would be bad for them.

The issue with all of this is that we are all discussing this shit like legality is morality which is how people justify all types of atrocities.  Who gives a fuck if this lawsuit proves without reasonable doubt that the NFL is racist.  That's not a standard I judge anything by.  Anyone with eyes can see that there is a problem with how the NFL hires coaches.  We shouldn't need a court to say, "It's racist for a sport that is played by a majority of black people at the highest level don't seem to believe any of those black people have the ability to teach anyone else."  They can say the exact opposite, and guess what, that shit will still be fucking racist.  We will never get anywhere if we can't address obvious racism without a court case that states whether or not something is racist.  The reason this shit is so pervasive is our collective tolerance of it.  Every time something like this comes up and we just sit around and discuss it like someone else is the arbiter of what is and what is not racist, you are letting someone else decide your tolerance of racism.  It seems like it's just a way to blame someone else for your tolerance of racism.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Tabe said:

Let's suppose he gets 20 coaches to join in and say "yeah, I had a sham interview".  Does that actually help Flores prove his case?  Or does it just prove that teams feel compelled to follow the Rooney Rule?  And I mean those questions from a legal lawsuit perspective not a "we really know what's going on here" perspective.

The league has an issue with minority representation for its HCs and GMs, but I think if you take the Rooney rule out of the equation, you still have coaches that will get interviewed not for sincere interest, but to show other suitors they're not desperate for one specific candidate and/or the very least here some different perspectives since this is a good time to hear from various aspects of a coaching circle.

I'm surprised Flores didn't land somewhere this year because I think he's a really good coach, but the constant OC change and reports of being abrasive with your GM can have an impact on that. At the same time, the Dolphins have been a horribly ran organization since Huizenga sold the team to Ross.  

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny listening to Dolphins talk about how it isn't that he was trying to pay off Flores to lose but that he was so damn cheap about it.  Especially since it seems that the guy they would have gotten is in the Super Bowl next week

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stephen Ross spent about a billion dollars to buy the Dolphins and the stadium.

If this all goes south for him and he's forced to sell the team, is there any reason to think he would get meaningfully less than the Broncos reported $4 million asking price?

Sure, you lose the status of owning an NFL team, but 300% profit is hard to get too upset about.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Somehow Ross will be forced to sell yet Dan Snyder can keep on being terrible to women

and the Raiders will probably have to fire their coach again for some reason.

yes, the one that hasn't even been hired yet

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The most interesting thing about the lawsuit, to me, is that what he (and maybe Jackson) have proof of has nothing to do with racism but the "integrity of the game" which is something NFL owners/Goodell actually care about. Its interesting that Flores mentioned it as that has nothing to do with the racism complaint, it shows he was going more "scorched earth" than just focusing on racism (that's not to say there isn't racism in the NFL, there is, just looking at his lawsuit as they feel like two different issues). I'm not sure if he can even sue for that, certainly not the NFL itself. I don't know what will happen with his case but if he has proof about the payments to lose I suspect the NFL will try to settle it quickly just to get rid of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

The most interesting thing about the lawsuit, to me, is that what he (and maybe Jackson) have proof of has nothing to do with racism but the "integrity of the game" which is something NFL owners/Goodell actually care about. Its interesting that Flores mentioned it as that has nothing to do with the racism complaint, it shows he was going more "scorched earth" than just focusing on racism (that's not to say there isn't racism in the NFL, there is, just looking at his lawsuit as they feel like two different issues). I'm not sure if he can even sue for that, certainly not the NFL itself. I don't know what will happen with his case but if he has proof about the payments to lose I suspect the NFL will try to settle it quickly just to get rid of that.

This is merely me kinda brainstorming, but it doesn't strike me as overly far-fetched that both Flores and Jackson were hired to tank the teams essentially as "fall guys" and a bit of evidence that black people have a chance at coaching jobs too. "We need to be really bad the next year or two, this is the perfect time to score some PR points by hiring a black head coach and then we can fire him for losing so much when we're ready to start trying to win again."

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • RIPPA unpinned this topic

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...