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AEW Dynamite - 12/23/2020


Dolfan in NYC
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35 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is a bad take. It's a bad take in the sense that you seem to not understand why growing an audience is important. So what, market to only the people who watch already? Never grow? Never get bigger? Never make more money?

It's not wrong of people in here just making observations on what worked with them and what didn't.
 

 

Bud I went out of my way to express that twice in my first post 😉 legitimately I swear, check it out and see i didn't go back for any edits promise. Already pointed out it was a bad take 😊

which I guess you didn't read and that's fine. Never said anything about not growing or not getting bigger.

Never said it was wrong for people to make observations. I kinda feel like this was all explained in the first post.

Talk about a bad take but what you quoted and what you're saying I said, I didn't actually say! 🤣 Pot meet kettle?

Nevermind, who has time for reading when reactionary takes are faster. 👌

 

 

 

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After catching most of the Benoit Dark Side of the Ring again today (god, I am a masochist) I was reminded that Jericho actively helped heal the divide between the two sides of the family. I'm not saying that makes up for engaging in a super-spreader event or having Cokehead Jr. and other nuts on your show, but is a reminder that people are complicated and not all terrible. 

There, that's my nice thing to say on Xmas. Now if you'll excuse me I gotta go listen to Sarcofago and blaspheme Christ. 

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Meh. I read it lol. I just narrowed down your point to this :

On 12/24/2020 at 9:15 PM, Hayabusa said:

-maybe just focus on retaining the audience you have.

-One group of Twitter posts being used to gauge interest is kinda like when two friends are debating a movie or something and one person says, "Well yeah but all my friends hated it."

Then my response, narrowed down was essentially :

-Focusing on retaining the audience you have, aka not looking for a new audience (or as I phrased it, growing your audience) is dumb.

-Then I explained the NBA viewing universe is way bigger than the wrestling viewing universe. So relegating the NBA twitter responses to a "group of friends" is dumb when it's probably closer to 5 or 6 million people... but maybe you have a lot of friends and 5 or 6 mil is no big deal for you playa lol.
 

13 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

Nevermind, who has time for reading when reactionary takes are faster. 👌


On this, we agree lol.

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@NoFistsJustFlipsI mentioned this earlier...I looked up some of the Twitter accounts of the people who "trashed" Jericho and AEW and for the most past they were people with few followers. Nothing went viral and there was little to no interaction with the posts. So I'm not sure they are anything to really make a big deal about.

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Honestly I didn't think anyone was making a big deal to begin with lol. It's an interesting insight into what non fans think, and considering what might appeal to them. Their follower amounts are kind of irrelevant. Does a person's opinion matter less if they're unpopular? Maybe it's coming off like I'm saying they should change things based off of that insight. That's not what I'm trying to say at all. I look at it more like it was a free market research group. Don't like take Jericho off tv because they were making fat jokes or anything drastic like that. But the consensus was that it looked like a bootleg WWE. Maybe that was a blind spot for AEW. So in that sense maybe they can learn from this free marketing research and tweak some visuals.

But his original idea my first post was talking about was that "maybe just focus on retaining the audience you have" is a bad thought process to have. That's all.

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On 12/24/2020 at 6:15 PM, A_K said:

Love Jericho & his many evolutions over the years (decades), but the shape he's in is pretty disgraceful at the moment. He's a highly paid athlete, a marquee star, and looks like he's just rolled out of a several month booze-binge. I get that he's 50, but he's roughly the same age as The Rock & was more agile as an athlete than The Rock when competing as a peer, but look at that difference in physique between the two now. Someone can put me right with some examples, but can you imagine prime authoritarian-Vince allowing marquee stars to deteriorate & roll out like that? If so, who? Physically he's a shadow of even what he looked like on his post-WWE tour in NJPW a couple of years ago. Sting is over a decade older and ostensibly looks in better condition.

RE: some segments of NBA fans' reaction to Dynamite .. are you really that surprised? I'd figure that AEW is pretty blazenly & deliberately politically-correct in its outlook. As mentioned, it has a heavily left-leaning fanbase. While there are some more mature themes to the booking it is not the hyper sexualised / graphic material of WWE at zenith-popularity that these uninitiated spectators may have been exposed to before falling off in years gone by. There's a lot of humour that is going to come across as straight up lame to segments of the non-watching populace suddenly introduced to it via mainstream testosterone sports lead-in (if watching various half dressed dudes in gimp masks giving Adam Page homo-erotic piggy backs, or male dinosaur/Amazonian cliques, for example). Up to AEW on if its trying to appeal to that audience. If not, so what, who cares what they think, its not the target demographic? If yes, then they can resist existing in an echo-chamber & try best to incorporate the feedback.

I agree with your sentiments but AEW is a promotion that wants you to take a joke like Marko Stunt seriously, employs Joey Janela, pushes Chuck “Dad Bod” Taylor as one of the top tag team guys. So I could understand how he could not care.

But what makes it worse is that he said a couple of years ago that he was gaining weight on purpose because the AEW roster was so small he wanted to work more of a bully style. I forget the old time wrestler he referenced.

The problem is he doesn’t actually look intimidating, he looks like shit. So he should quit drinking for a while and lean up.

But comparing him to the Rock isn’t fair. The Rock is several inches taller, so can carry more weight better. He’s also not taking any bumps and hasn’t been on the road in a long time. And I would guess that The Rock has more gas (or some type of exotic pharmaceuticals) running through his veins than you local ConocoPhillips.

I guess Jericho could hire The Rock’s pharmaceutical consultant if he’s committed to being a physically imposing presence. But he should probably just lean up—carrying the extra weight probably isn’t good for his joints at this point.

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15 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Honestly I didn't think anyone was making a big deal to begin with lol. It's an interesting insight into what non fans think, and considering what might appeal to them. Their follower amounts are kind of irrelevant. Does a person's opinion matter less if they're unpopular? Maybe it's coming off like I'm saying they should change things based off of that insight. That's not what I'm trying to say at all. I look at it more like it was a free market research group. Don't like take Jericho off tv because they were making fat jokes or anything drastic like that. But the consensus was that it looked like a bootleg WWE. Maybe that was a blind spot for AEW. So in that sense maybe they can learn from this free marketing research and tweak some visuals.

But his original idea my first post was talking about was that "maybe just focus on retaining the audience you have" is a bad thought process to have. That's all.

The problem is that people are conflating 10 people shit posting on the internet with the NBA fan base when that’s not necessarily the case.

They should and obviously do want to grow their fan base but overreacting to a few people on Twitter is not how you do that.

And while growing your fan base is important in order to grow you have to maintain your fan base and attract new viewers. If you alienate your core audience by chasing new viewers you become TNA.

And a good way to start down the TNA would be to panic and overreact to what a small fraction of NBA Twitter  tweeted.

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4 hours ago, Infinit said:

@NoFistsJustFlipsI mentioned this earlier...I looked up some of the Twitter accounts of the people who "trashed" Jericho and AEW and for the most past they were people with few followers. Nothing went viral and there was little to no interaction with the posts. So I'm not sure they are anything to really make a big deal about.

MJF buying Russian Twitter troll bots to body shame Jericho and retrospectively take all the credit for the duet needs to be the reveal here.

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3 hours ago, Bryan said:

The problem is that people are conflating 10 people shit posting on the internet with the NBA fan base when that’s not necessarily the case.

Do people not understand how Twitter works? If it's only 10 people you would never see the tweets. 10 isn't enough for the algorithm to pull it up in your "for you" section. Generally tweets need to be in the 10,000s to trend, but has to at least be in the 1,000s to show up on anyone's radar in the "for you" section. So thousands and thousands of people were talking about Jericho not 10.

 

Doesn't negate your main point. Just felt the need to point out it's a way bigger sample size than 10.

 

3 minutes ago, RolandTHTG said:

MJF buying Russian Twitter troll bots to body shame Jericho and retrospectively take all the credit for the duet needs to be the reveal here.


Okay you win the thread. This is a GOOD take lol.

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People would probably talk less about Chuck's body if he had anything else going on. Bland face, bland body, bland tights, nothing gimmick at best, doesn't look like much of anything compared to his peers, isn't enough of a promo or a presence to compensate or intimidate. Lots of other guys with sub-optimal bodies for television get by with less criticism because they have other qualities worth lauding. 

"He's in better shape than I ever have" is the faintest of faint praise. I'm not expecting any of you to be shirtless on TV and look like a somebody. 

But I'm probably brainwashed by Vince McMahon and want everyone to look like Ultimate Warrior or something. 

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6 hours ago, Bryan said:

I agree with your sentiments but AEW is a promotion that wants you to take a joke like Marko Stunt seriously, employs Joey Janela, pushes Chuck “Dad Bod” Taylor as one of the top tag team guys. So I could understand how he could not care.

But what makes it worse is that he said a couple of years ago that he was gaining weight on purpose because the AEW roster was so small he wanted to work more of a bully style. I forget the old time wrestler he referenced.

The problem is he doesn’t actually look intimidating, he looks like shit. So he should quit drinking for a while and lean up.

But comparing him to the Rock isn’t fair. The Rock is several inches taller, so can carry more weight better. He’s also not taking any bumps and hasn’t been on the road in a long time. And I would guess that The Rock has more gas (or some type of exotic pharmaceuticals) running through his veins than you local ConocoPhillips.

I guess Jericho could hire The Rock’s pharmaceutical consultant if he’s committed to being a physically imposing presence. But he should probably just lean up—carrying the extra weight probably isn’t good for his joints at this point.

Yes Rock was a lazy comparison on my behalf as it was the first name that came to mind who was a peer at peak & is roughly same age. To mention other contemporary examples grouped in his category of superstardom, Jericho is same age as Goldberg when he had his SS Lesnar bout .. or 'Taker when he met Lesnar at WM. My general point is that he is doing himself a disservice performing in this sort of condition; I agree that there is probably a lazy acceptance wrt a few other low-rent performers on the roster that it goes accepted or unmentioned. With the great depth of the roster there's no excuse for it really to move forward. Just do away with the chaff.

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4 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Do people not understand how Twitter works? If it's only 10 people you would never see the tweets. 10 isn't enough for the algorithm to pull it up in your "for you" section. Generally tweets need to be in the 10,000s to trend, but has to at least be in the 1,000s to show up on anyone's radar in the "for you" section. So thousands and thousands of people were talking about Jericho not 10.

 

Doesn't negate your main point. Just felt the need to point out it's a way bigger sample size than 10.

 


Okay you win the thread. This is a GOOD take lol.

The Twitter trending algorithm just trends based on terms that are in use regardless of context.

For instance, earlier today Aminu was trending for me under NBA but 75% of the posts were black people referring to a story a movie or something I couldn’t figure out.

On any given day there are probably hundreds of tweets referencing Jericho (more when he wrestles on Wednesdays), so it wouldn’t take much for him to trend.

I don’t know how many people were tweeting about it but it wasn’t a significant amount and the NBA people weren’t starting from zero. 
 

So everything needs to be kept in perspective.

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8 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

 But his original idea my first post was talking about was that "maybe just focus on retaining the audience you have" is a bad thought process to have. That's all.

Not really, thats not exactly it. Never grow? never get bigger?never make more money?

 

if you'd read my first post you'd know I never said any of that. Putting words in my mouth to mop the floor with those strawmen is what got me thinking takes one to know one when it comes to giving crap takes, I mean if you're moving the goalposts don't go and omit that part 

Now, I'll ask again since I don't know if anyone managed to answer, as reading really doesn't matter according to noFistsjusFlips (and I legit love that username btw)

What makes Twitter trends so important that their feedback is the priority to focus on, over feedback on say, reddit or Instagram or Facebook or whatever other popular platform is out there? Nevermind who has more numbers, tiktok or cameo, but which platform manages to actually represent the ratings trends in terms of user feedback being almost on equal terms with what pulls in ratings?

Does Twitter have a track record of accurately reflecting what moves the needle and what doesn't? Legit asking cause fuck me, I don't keep up with the newz and rumblings much less all the bte/dark/travel vlog/ tweets out there.

Do Twitter trends mirror ratings, or do Twitter trends not correlate at all to what actually draws ratings? Which platform fits the demo and has feedback directly correlating to what the ratings are when they come in 🤔

and if it isn't Twitter, why should anyone care what trends on there if it doesn't reflect the demo sticking around and watching the show? Asking for a friend. All 6 million 🙄

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16 hours ago, Bryan said:

I agree with your sentiments but AEW is a promotion that wants you to take a joke like Marko Stunt seriously, employs Joey Janela, pushes Chuck “Dad Bod” Taylor as one of the top tag team guys. So I could understand how he could not care.

I really don't see why I should have a problem with the way Marko Stunt is featured. Yes, he gets some offense in, but he's a "cult" jobber and sometimes tag team attraction by beeing a projectile to throw around. I don't have to take him seriously and I really don't feel like AEW wants me to take him seriously. I mean, he won two singles matches against an unsigned unknown and against Nakazawa (who sits in the same boat with Stunt) and both matches were on Dark. He's not beating people he shouldn't beat. Same with Joey Janela. I don't think he's won a single match on Dynamite. Yeah, I thought Janela looked a bit to strong against Kenny Omega, but, come on, these are jobbers who haven't beaten anyone.

If you think Jericho looking like shit shouldn't beat pretty much everyone, that's something I can understand more. But even here, in kayfabe he's still one of the best wrestlers off all time so he should able to overcome physical shortcomings by virtue of experience. Vince Carter was still a great basketball player even when he was nothing like his former Air Canada self.

I'd like to second the idea that Jericho should incorporate falling off into his gimmick more. I had the same idea about Christopher Daniels, who has somewhat the same problem. Daniels should start to cheat more and more to keep his (future) winning streak with Kazarian alive and realize that he just can't beat most opponents clean anymore.

Edited by MrKothoga
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