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AEW Dynamite - 12/4/2019

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8 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Not that I necessarily disagree and this is probably WWE wide thing, but if we're getting on AEW for the Nightmare Collective/Dark Order/Butcher and the Blade, can we get on NXT for a bunch of dudes having the burned out jam band roadie/Confederate civil war general beard look that the Forgotten Sons/Killian Dain/Cameron Grimes etc. are all rocking? I just wish they throw all those dudes into one stable and be done with it. I'm completely over that look.

When you put it this way, they're 100% justified in keeping Luke Harper off TV. 

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2 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

When you put it this way, they're 100% justified in keeping Luke Harper off TV. 

If you're going to have that look, AT THE VERY LEAST give that person a clear, discernible gimmick. NXT and AEW have a problem that is completely on the opposite end of the spectrum from each other. AEW's problem is they want to give people different gimmicks (some straight from 1995 WWF) and it's too camp to really have much credibility with the live audience. With NXT...take the Forgotten Sons for example. I'm not sure what the hell they're suppose to be. Are they like a buff, roided up version of the United Daughters of the Confederacy? Are they some radical online right wing extremist group? If they are, at least have the balls to go in that direction cause otherwise it's no way for them to get really over and get heat. A guy like Tomasso Ciampa can get over on the fact he is a great wrestler. If the underneath guys have the same fucking look and just are slightly above average to good in the ring, what's the point? Just put everyone in solid black with kickpads and call it a day.

Even if some of these segments are dogshit, AEW is at least showing me they are willing to die on the gimmick hill and make it actually be pro wrestling. One of these is going to stick...hopefully? 🤣 Let's not forget post Hogan arrival WCW until mid 96 was bad gimmick heaven. That doesn't even cover fall of 96 to spring of 97 which was Glacier/Mortis/Wrath fighting over an amulet, a talisman, or whatever the fuck. Two months in, not all of these are going to be winners. You're going to have to sift through plenty of dog poop.

Edited by Elsalvajeloco
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I definitely thought this was the worst episode they've done so far, but I don't really think it was bad.  I missed the first match and caught some of the Fenix/Trent match, which seemed good.  I saw the highlights of the opener today and it looked pretty good.

Statlander/Shida was pretty decent and it's nice to see Statlander get a good win.  I think they really blew it with the post-match stuff and they definitely took the heat from her with the stupid Brandi shit.  What's the point of the win if you just forget about 5 minutes later because of some goofy angle?  It's not like they can't fix it by bringing it up next week but I still think it would be better if everything was booked differently.  Brandi's stupid shit about joining up with her and Kong reminded me way too much of the goofy, overdone Dark Order vignettes.  This company needs to decide what they are.  Are they realistic sports-esque wrestling or are they goofy and unrealistic?

The Cody promo was good but again, you've got realistic Cody cutting a killer promo but then he's mentioning his goofy wife in the same promo.  I think it takes you out of the show and the promo when he brings up his wife's weird gimmick and angles.

The Blade and Butcher vignette was decent enough but did resemble the Dark Order stuff and Brandi's cult.  Allie hasn't come across better in AEW than that vignette, which is good.  Keep her and Brandi away from the ring.

Pentagon/Daniels was nothing special, and it just made me wish for a Lucha Bros. match.  I used to think Penta would make a great main event guy but now I'm not sure.

The Jericho segment was fun and put over Moxley well

Janela's promo was fine until Moxley came in with his corny line and made him look like a geek.  Their match was fine but nothing special, and Moxley looked good, which was the point.  I think Moxley needs to win the belt soon since he's pretty hot and there is plenty of time for him to chase and build more heat for the match.  He's #2 on the roster in my book because people know him but he isn't totally established as some sort of made main event guy.  Put the belt on him and have Omega chase towards a rematch at the end of the year. 

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1 hour ago, Rev Ray said:

Since we are listing what MJF can ask for: Pharoh.  Take away his best friend.

JUST TUG AT MY HEARTSTRINGS DAMMIT!

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17 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

With NXT...take the Forgotten Sons for example. I'm not sure what the hell they're suppose to be. Are they like a buff, roided up version of the United Daughters of the Confederacy? Are they some radical online right wing extremist group? If they are, at least have the balls to go in that direction cause otherwise it's no way for them to get really over and get heat. 

I see what you're saying. Here's a vignette of theirs from last year. It's all perfectly vague.

At first I thought maybe the name was a take on Trump's "forgotten men and women" shtick, but I doubt their have any interest in touching the hot stove. So instead it's something to do with forgotten dudes who live near a bunch of scrap metal? I dunno. 

Doesn't help that I can't remember any of their names or who's who five minutes after their segment is done.

Edited by West Newbury Bad Boy

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1 minute ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Here's a vignette of theirs from last year. It's all perfectly vague.

At first I thought maybe the name was a take on Trump's "forgotten men and women" shtick, but I doubt their have any interest in touching the hot stove. So instead it's something to do with forgotten dudes who live near a bunch of scrap metal? I dunno. 

This looks like B roll footage from a country music video. Imagine if Memphis in its heyday was this bland.

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1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Not that I necessarily disagree and this is probably WWE wide thing, but if we're getting on AEW for the Nightmare Collective/Dark Order/Butcher and the Blade, can we get on NXT for a bunch of dudes having the burned out jam band roadie/Confederate civil war general beard look that the Forgotten Sons/Killian Dain/Cameron Grimes etc. are all rocking? I just wish they throw all those dudes into one stable and be done with it. I'm completely over that look.

Can we call this group Phish?

Or Credence Clearwater Revised?

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10 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Wasn't Trent the one who lost to PAC in that match with the botched finish a few weeks ago?

He was. I think it was "pronouns pal" moment where the announcer came out of a discussion about Trent and said "he's 1-0 in singles competition" meaning Fenix. I was confused to, but then he (was it Excalibur?) went right on to say "and 6-5 overall" and I figured out that he was talking about Rey.

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1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Not that I necessarily disagree and this is probably WWE wide thing, but if we're getting on AEW for the Nightmare Collective/Dark Order/Butcher and the Blade, can we get on NXT for a bunch of dudes having the burned out jam band roadie/Confederate civil war general beard look that the Forgotten Sons/Killian Dain/Cameron Grimes etc. are all rocking? I just wish they throw all those dudes into one stable and be done with it. I'm completely over that look.

I chalked it up to No Shave November except for Bobby Fish and Ciampa.

Tomaso's a pretty weird looking dude clean shaven.  The beard adds a grungy element that helps his gimmick.

Edited by J.T.
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I think the beard is fine on Ciampa and maybe Dain, but that's it in NXT. 

Vince also apparently hates beards, which makes the dearth of wrestlers with scraggly unkempt beards really weird. Daniel Bryan? Fine, he's been rocking it longer than most of these guys. The rest? Get your beard trimmed and tailored and this is coming from someone with a beard.

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Dain is supposed to be a fucking Irish mastodon so he looks perfectly fine scraggly.

I suppose you could also give Dunne a pass since I doubt anyone would believe in a clean shaven dubbed the Bruiserweight.

Fish has usually maintained a painfully manicured beard and 'stache.  Has he fallen off recently because his grooming is impeccable to a fault.

Edited by J.T.

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Yeah, anyway. NXT is boring.

MJF is apparently behind the Butcher, Blade & the Bunny? And he picked QT Marshall to be Cody's partner? What? I can't even explain that.

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11 minutes ago, Casey said:

MJF is apparently behind the Butcher, Blade & the Bunny? And he picked QT Marshall to be Cody's partner? What? I can't even explain that.

1SKU.gif 

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Whether any or all of the Forgotten Sons were involved with that Aces N' Eights poop duke in TNA, they all certainly look like they were. And that's bad enough.

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WHY WASN'T THIS ON DYNAMITE?!

 

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4 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Honestly, this episode of Dynamite was pretty skippable. Most of the matches were solid, but nothing worth seeking out and mostly heatless aside from the opener. The action peaked early. Only thing anyone should bother seeking out is the Cody promo.  

I'd personally have cut the Brandi promo and thrown MJF on the show. I don't know why we need three "dark" heel groups at the same time anyway, but her live promo was pretty bad. Terrible affectation and rambling, aimless material. She should keep it to pre-tapes, because that format has somehow gotten people into Dark Order's incel recruitment videos. 

You had me until the Dark Order dig.

I like zany, horror themed shit but yeah even I think three similar groups like this is way overkill unless it was something like Lucha Underground. I like the variety show approach, as STRAIGHT SERIOUS WRESTLING can get tedious at times. We've seen Brandi deliver great promos both babyface and heel so far but it's almost always pretaped. Like I said, this stuff is coming off as the worst of angsty girl teen dramas from 2001 UPN. 

Main event had some dope spots but was very much a match. I hope in time the company can shift just a bit away from total go-go-go indie spotfests to highspot wrestling with storytelling and a bit more thought behind it. I am having a hard time connecting to a lot of AEW's tv matches because it's just a bunch of spots with not a whole lot of greatness in-between for the most part.

Last two weeks haven't really done it for me. 

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I also love zany horror stuff and I wish I could like the Dark Order PSAs, but they really do look like rip offs of Wham City's Adult Swim stuff like This House Has People In It, The Cry of Mann, and Unedited Footage Of A Bear.

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I have no clue what the words you just said mean, but Dark Order is awesome.

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Wham City Comedy is the pride and joy of Baltimore, MD.   They are an odd art and performance collective that specializes in really dark comedy.  They usually develop short performance pieces that are usually tied to some web based ARG (alternate reality game) that delves further into the weeds.

The three most noteworthy projects they've worked on are the ones I mentioned and they got a lot of traction playing on Adult Swim's late Saturday line-up.

The Dark Order PSAs share the "something is not quite right" theme that is common in WCC's pieces.  They're almost mirror parodies.

Edited by J.T.

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45 minutes ago, FluffSnackwell said:

Whether any or all of the Forgotten Sons were involved with that Aces N' Eights poop duke in TNA, they all certainly look like they were. And that's bad enough.

The only one that could have been was Jackson Ryker fka Gunner. I don't recall if he was if part of Aces & Eights. I've done a pretty good job of blocking Bischoff & Hogan TNA from my memory.

As for this week's Dynamite, I enjoyed the show a lot. I feel like the six man tag probably should have been the main event with Moxley/Janela opening the show. Pentagon and Christopher Daniels have a better match in them somewhere, but I would keep Daniels & Kazarian as the primary duo of SCU. I'd like to see them use the Freebird rule to get more Scorpio Sky singles matches.

Like Scorpio Sky, Trent? could break out and have a great singles career ahead of him. I've really enjoyed his matches against Fenix and Pentagon. I'm not in any hurry to see the Best Friends split up. It's way too early for AEW to be splitting teams. 

Cody's promo was great. It had such a great old school vibe. I could easily have seen Dusty putting up his watch, custom clothes, or money to get his hands on Flair or Tully. I'm dying to see Cody get his hands on MJF. I love MJF assembling an army between himself and Cody, and picking jobber QT Marshall as Cody's partner. I'm glad we got an explanation from the Butcher, the Blade, and the Bunny.

Another great vignette from the Dark Order. I love the mind control cult vibe that's developed. I never thought that was the direction they'd go with the former SSB, but I think it's great. I want them to succeed so badly because I've liked them for a long time and partially because of how cold they started, but have turned it around quickly.

I wish Brandi wasn't seemingly doing the same thing with her Nightmare Collective. I like how the women's division is shaping up with the additions of Shanna, Kris Statlander, and Hikaru Shida. I'll have to check out Melanie Cruise since last night was my first time seeing her. With all the additions, the Britt Baker push can be slowed down. She's miscast as a face and it was too soon given her shortcomings in the ring, although it seems the Britt push only came because of Kylie Rae's departure.

Jericho nails it once again. His promo and the confrontation with the Jurassic Express. I like Jericho busting his ass to get over Darby Allin, Scorpio Sky, now Luchasaurus and Jungle Boy.

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I really like Trent but I don't think he has the charisma to be a big deal in singles. He and Chuck are good together and they've got something in OC. I wouldn't mess with it.

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Trent really hasn't evolved much as a performer since his fun Superstars matches with Tyson Kidd back in the day. I expect him to remain very good, but I'm not holding my breath on him making that jump to main event singles talent. 

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4 minutes ago, Oyaji said:

I really like Trent but I don't think he has the charisma to be a big deal in singles. He and Chuck are good together and they've got something in OC. I wouldn't mess with it.

I wouldn't mess with it either. I hate seeing teams split when they don't need to be.

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5 minutes ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:

Trent really hasn't evolved much as a performer since his fun Superstars matches with Tyson Kidd back in the day. I expect him to remain very good, but I'm not holding my breath on him making that jump to main event singles talent. 

If they had a midcard title, he'd be perfect for that. But yeah, I don't see Trent ever moving into the main event title scene. Then again, I don't see that happening for Scorpio Sky either. Maybe hovering between midcard and the upper midcard, but never full blown World Champion material. They're both good, but neither are that good.

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