Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

AEW Dynamite - 10/2/2019


Dolfan in NYC
 Share

Recommended Posts

I didn’t listen to Cornette’s review, but if he really said “The matches should be shorter, and have less false finishes”, then I don’t know if he watched the show with a real critical eye. All the matches were common TV length matches(Under 15 minutes). The matches that had close two counts, all had an adequate amount of them. Which were the title match(Like no duh, that match needs to be a little epic), and the opening match(With how important Sammy will be in the future, it’s a no brainer that it needed to be a little more special). It’s not like people were kicking out of finishers. 

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree.  In particular with the Sammy-Cody match - I loved that they didn't play to formula on having Sammy go down to Brandi's interference.  It sets a precedence that, one piece at a time, they're moving away from the tired formula.  Also, it made Sammy look strong.  The finish also seemed fresh.  I loved that match, and, that said, cared very little for Sammy coming in.  Cody's work against Darby and now Sammy in introducing them by simply having good stories/matches is extraordinary.  

I'm a big believer in understanding history and the fomulas that worked, and then pushing forth by improvising on that.  Thinking outside the box.  Like really good jazz.  The mentality of 'that's not how you do it' is laughable at this point.  Certainly there are tried and true formulas that help get things over, but the other side of that is what has made so much wrestling so stale and so predictable and souless.  

Edited by HarryArchieGus
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I sort of agree with everybody. I'm not going to complain about an actual false finish personally but Cornette is directionally accurate - in modern prowres there are too many so-called false finishes that noone is buying as the finish, and it's valid to point out that it didn't really used to be that way. Some wrestlers did use pinfalls, but commentators used to put them over as establishing dominance or as forcing your opponent to use up energy on a kickout. I guess Vince came out against that somewhere down the line, as I swear I haven't heard any pinfall psychology on commentary in over 20 years.

I am reminded of Kenny Omega having Terry Taylor tell him that if you try and fail 3 times to pin a guy  in a match then you're telling the crowd you can't beat the guy. Now obviously that's beyond stupid, but it's not actually a terrible heuristic in terms of cutting the number of bullshit near falls. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then blame Ric Flair, and not the modern wrestlers for all the kick outs in matches. I mean how many combined pin fall attempts did Flair, and Steamboat have in their famous trilogy? 250? Yeah, some had the “Pinfall psychology”, but most were the “He almost got him Jimbo”.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's important to draw a distinction between near-falls (finisher < kickout) and 'wear-down' pinfalls (a la Flair/Steamboat).

I don't want to sound too Al Snow here, but Terry Taylor be damned: the goal of a wrestling match is to win, usually by pinning the other guy. You can only pin him on the ground. So if you ever knock a guy down, and don't go for a pinfall, you're not trying to win. I always go a little crazy when i see someone knock the other guy down, then pick them up, knock them down again, and again, and again...

This isn't a video game. Wrestlers don't have HP. You can quickly, at any time, with the 'right' pin (leverage, blah blah blah).

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, ComingToAmerica said:

I guess Vince came out against that somewhere down the line, as I swear I haven't heard any pinfall psychology on commentary in over 20 years.

Commentators have brought it up in Regal's WWE matches. The way he works forces them to acknowledge it sometimes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ComingToAmerica said:

Cornette is directionally accurate - in modern prowres there are too many so-called false finishes that noone is buying as the finish, and it's valid to point out that it didn't really used to be that way. Some wrestlers did use pinfalls, but commentators used to put them over as establishing dominance or as forcing your opponent to use up energy on a kickout. I guess Vince came out against that somewhere down the line, as I swear I haven't heard any pinfall psychology on commentary in over 20 years.

I am reminded of Kenny Omega having Terry Taylor tell him that if you try and fail 3 times to pin a guy  in a match then you're telling the crowd you can't beat the guy. Now obviously that's beyond stupid, but it's not actually a terrible heuristic in terms of cutting the number of bullshit near falls. 

Everybody bought that Brandi interference as the finish.  I see a lot of false finishes that everyone is buying.  I'm not against the point that sometimes matches have false finishes that should be the finish.  Of course. 

The Taylor point, if it's as simple as that, is the kind of nonsense that makes wrestling finishes so cookie cutter and predictable.  The issue with false finishes is if they're poorly done, and nobody buys it, or the lack psychology in the sense of - you just killed that guy with a huge move (sometimes a move bigger than anything else on the show or in the match) and it's kicked out of and followed up with a clearly weaker finish.  A guy doing three different bigger moves and not getting the win doesn't necessarily not work.  The ideas of yore concerning Wrestling psychology have always been far too rigid when the product, for better or worse, is constantly changing.  Also, we live in a time when 'real fights' show us that wrestling psychology was even less realistic than we seemed to understand.    

Edited by HarryArchieGus
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

None of that happened on Wednesday Night, so either Jim didn’t watch, or he’s bullshitting his criticism of it, which didn’t feature blow-away PPV style modern matches.

Not surprising. He condemned Lucha Underground when all he ever watched was a 4 minute teaser clip before Season 2. Jim Cornette shits on things because it's literally the only thing he's done that's drawn money that didn't involve Ricky Morton.

 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

54 minutes ago, Ace said:

Not surprising. He condemned Lucha Underground when all he ever watched was a 4 minute teaser clip before Season 2. Jim Cornette shits on things because it's literally the only thing he's done that's drawn money that didn't involve Ricky Morton.

 

 

I dont remember the RnR being part of the Last Stampede. I think they were feuding with russians when the MX were feuding Watts and the Dog.

Edited by odessasteps
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

 I see a lot of false finishes that everyone is buying. 

There's two types of buy-in. The crowd counting the fall and 'playing along' is one kind of buy-in, and there's nothing wrong with that per se, but it doesn't mean as much to the TV audience and I don't think you should over do it. But the best thing they could do is actually have the commentary team try to bring back better psychology

On the Brandi interference nearfall, as I say I have no issue with it. Cornette has more of an issue with it, I suspect, because Russo and his wish to constantly do the opposite thing because swerve~!. I also suspect Cornette is also not a jazz aficionado, and whilst I can appreciate a bit of spice there is clearly lots of shitty jazz.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, ComingToAmerica said:

On the Brandi interference nearfall, as I say I have no issue with it. Cornette has more of an issue with it, I suspect, because Russo and his wish to constantly do the opposite thing because swerve~!. I also suspect Cornette is also not a jazz aficionado, and whilst I can appreciate a bit of spice there is clearly lots of shitty jazz.

I’m not sure having a kick out after interference is really a swerve in the Russo variety. It’s playing off expectations of past spots. You see that a lot in past matches, tournaments, and rematches in all of wrestling history.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I dont remember the RnR being part of the Last Stampede. I think they were feuding with russians when the MX were feuding Watts and the Dog.

My apologies for not including a series of matches I did not see 35 years ago.  I'll add the addendum of Watts and JYD.

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know I'm a little late to the party, but as someone who was kind of against all this nonsense (Not a HUGE fan of the Elite, rather meh on Omega, cool on Cody, and a little contrarian when it comes to anything that has a "cool" vibe or seems overly pandering to Meltzer) and a guy who feels like he's somewhat of a WWE apologist, I watched this with an open-mind last week and LOVED it.

Gave me a real Nitro vibe (Not just because of the announcers!) with lots of emphasis put on the wrestling, storylines for wrestlers up and down the card and everything came off a little less polished and little more real than your average WWE show.  I'm really excited and looking forward to this week's show which is not something I've said about a WWE show in a long time.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, caley said:

I know I'm a little late to the party, but as someone who was kind of against all this nonsense (Not a HUGE fan of the Elite, rather meh on Omega, cool on Cody, and a little contrarian when it comes to anything that has a "cool" vibe or seems overly pandering to Meltzer) and a guy who feels like he's somewhat of a WWE apologist, I watched this with an open-mind last week and LOVED it.

Gave me a real Nitro vibe (Not just because of the announcers!) with lots of emphasis put on the wrestling, storylines for wrestlers up and down the card and everything came off a little less polished and little more real than your average WWE show.  I'm really excited and looking forward to this week's show which is not something I've said about a WWE show in a long time.

One of us, one of us. We accept you. We accept you.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, listening to John Pollock and Wai Ting reviewing this episode and when they get to the Rose/Rio match and reference Omega's involvement, they say something along the lines of Kenny "possibly setting up something down the line with Rose."

Mr Omega, I beg you. And this is coming from a guy who likes Jim Cornette, do not wrestle Nyla Rose. The interwebs are not prepared to handle the fall out and all the bullshit that would come with Jim Cornette's hot take on "Kenny Olivier" wrestling Nyla. Please do not do this. You may kill us all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Phil4126 said:

So, listening to John Pollock and Wai Ting reviewing this episode and when they get to the Rose/Rio match and reference Omega's involvement, they say something along the lines of Kenny "possibly setting up something down the line with Rose."

Mr Omega, I beg you. And this is coming from a guy who likes Jim Cornette, do not wrestle Nyla Rose. The interwebs are not prepared to handle the fall out and all the bullshit that would come with Jim Cornette's hot take on "Kenny Olivier" wrestling Nyla. Please do not do this. You may kill us all.

I don't think it will lead to that.  If anything I think it'll lead to a mixed tag with Kenny and Riho against Nyla and somebody (Moxley could work unless you want to them to be strictly a singles match)

Some other things I forgot to point out.  When going to the show if you get stuff like a shirt or hoodie they have an email club called Elite Fleet.  So when you sign up they screen print the Fleet logo on your shirt.  I think that's a neat idea and it gives an added incentive to buy at the show instead of online (plus no shipping)  They said they'll announce stuff before others finds out so we'll see how this goes.  And for the show I know it's been 18 years but with it on TNT the look of the show made me think back to Nitro.  I can't put my finger on why exactly but whether it was due to how they shot or who knows what it gave me a weird flashback.  Either that or I just need to get my eyes checked.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

 And for the show I know it's been 18 years but with it on TNT the look of the show made me think back to Nitro.  I can't put my finger on why exactly but whether it was due to how they shot or who knows what it gave me a weird flashback.  Either that or I just need to get my eyes checked.

Cable ropes, a darker grey of mat, wrestlers talking into the camera, and interviews at the entrance(I want to see more of that). Those are the four things that stick out for me. Maybe the replays as well. JR was getting tongue tied during them when they were coming at him at a million mph like Bobby Heenan, and Zbyszko used to.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...