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JUNE 2018 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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30 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

They were essentially the New Age Outlaws, but somehow worse in the ring.

The Outlaws were a great team. They were better on the mic and had better catch phrases. 

The Revival might have a case for an all time great team for carrying Enzo and Cass to a good match. 

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48 minutes ago, Victator said:

The Outlaws were a great team. They were better on the mic and had better catch phrases. 

The Revival might have a case for an all time great team for carrying Enzo and Cass to a good match. 

That Revival match (at Roadblock?) a few weeks before the call up legit tricked me into thinking Enzo was going to be the next huge underdog face.

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2 hours ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

You jest, but I can see them doing a Braun/Alexa romance now that the Mixed Match Challenge has been formally introduced into Raw canon. WWE posted photos of the two holding the MITB briefcases to take the shape of a heart. Sooner or later, they're going there with those two.

Geez, Alexa is so little, if she and Braun had a baby, the baby would give birth to her.

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5 hours ago, just drew said:

Damn. The sad thing is, together, there was money to be made with the two of them. They were guys who could've overcome sloppy work with Enzo's promo and Cass's size. They were WHITE HOT the last year they were in nxt and the first few months they were on Raw. For the life of me I can't understand the decision to split them up. Been downhill since then...

If they'd managed to not both be giant dickheads in real life, they would have had fine careers as a midcard tag team.  They were never going to put on MOTYCs, but they would have been perfectly fine in the same role Gallows & Anderson have.

4 hours ago, Rick said:

I look forward to Big Cass' reinvention in Japan. Hell, he can't be much worse than Lance Archer.

How dare you.  Lance Archer is a good worker.

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2 minutes ago, mattdangerously said:

How dare you.  Lance Archer is a good worker.

To be fair, he use to be pretty crappy. 

Its hard to imagine Cass getting better tho. He had two ppv matches with a motivated Daniel Bryan and blew it. 

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33 minutes ago, sydneybrown said:

Geez, Alexa is so little, if she and Braun had a baby, the baby would give birth to her.

I'm going to re-imagine the SNL Bill Brasky buddies sketches with Braun as Bill Brasky. Another 90's reference for you guys that love them so much.

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Someone already said it about them on the board, but Enzo/Cass/Mela are the ultimate example of Bruce Prichard's "And then the damn bell had to ring" line. One guy dripping with charisma and mic skills, one guy with a great look, a hot woman... And zero in-ring ability between the three of them.

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I don't think that you can argue that Enzo and Cass were the hottest NXT act. They might have been the hottest tag team, but American Alpha, Gargano and Ciampa, and The Fucking Ascension were at least as over as they were. 

Then, you have to consider all the singles acts that were mad over from Bayley to Sasha Banks to Sami Zayn, etc., etc. I haven't actually seen NXT since about November of 2016, but I'm guessing that there are some hot acts that came through since then, too. 

I also don't find it reasonable to use Enzo and Cass as a data point for "NXT acts that are hot don't necessarily translate" since they did translate when they first came up as a tag team and the goal is to book guys to hide their deficiencies so that you can make money off of them as an act, not to separate them and expose them. 

As someone said (and unless things have changed since I last saw a WWE show), WWE doesn't value tag teams. They value them only a bit more than managers. And it doesn't have to be one or the other between "WWE doesn't value tag teams" and "Enzo and Cass are acutely failing at acting like decent human beings." It's probably both, but that doesn't take WWE off the hook for not knowing how to monetize their workers properly. 

Then again, I guess they don't have to with companies throwing around money like drunks in the club on a Saturday night just to pay for any type of live programming, but that's another topic.

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5 hours ago, OSJ said:

C'mon Greg, settle down... I'd love to hear the argument that these guys were the hottest act NXT ever had. They were a couple of sub-mediocre wrestlers with a catchphrase and intro. There was no "mic work" to speak of, there was just the same old thing week after week that some people found to be amusing.  Hell, the Exotic Express had more of a potential shelf-life than these guys.

Reposting from an older thread, but my argument:

If we're focusing on what NXT was, solely as NXT, these three would have the case for the top spot. NXT's biggest benefit during the glory days was that all three divisions- the women with Bayley, the men with Sami Zayn, and the tag team division with Enzo and Cass- each had their own "Screw the titles, this person/people are the heart and soul of this division" and every fan kind of knew it.

What makes Enzo and Cass number one, though, was the fact that Enzo and Cass actively sucked in the ring, and people inherently knew this. In an NXT where fans were engineered to prefer great wrestling, and a division filled with great tag teams throughout the division who could actually wrestle, Enzo and Cass came in with two strikes against them in the NXT style as "Performance Center students with no particular run on the indies, let alone being indy darlings" and managed to not only hit a home run, but hit a grand slam down by three in the bottom of the ninth with two outs to win the World Series.

In a NXT where Full Sail was actively ready to despise anyone who didn't come from "muh indies", they managed to make Full Sail fall in love with them, EVEN WHILE KNOWING they were actively terrible in the ring. Even with the great character of Sami Zayn, there'd always be that question of "Did they love Sami Zayn, Moral Compass of NXT, or did they love El Generico (TRAINER IN AN ORPHANAGE OF! Sami Zayn!)"- and the same thing could be said for most of the women who were behind the Women's Revolution (with only Charlotte being a Performance Center graduate of the core "Women's Revolutionaries"). 

What Bayley and Sami Zayn did was a chemical reaction and made NXT so great- but if Bayley's biggest reason she would go above Sami Zayn would likely boil down to "Bayley made herself a star wholly in NXT", then it also had to be mentioned Enzo and Cass did it all in the tag division, without even getting to win the big one like Bayley or Zayn did, and did it without any indy cred at all to speak of (where even Bayley had a run in SHIMMER- and with how few indy women WWE hired until the Women's Revolution took, even that small run would be enough to say "Did they love Bayley, or did they love Davina Rose (NOT! Bayley!)" 

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On one hand it's nice that we have a recent precedent for how bad you have to be for Vince to give up on you.

Unfortunately, Roman Reigns clears "Big Cass level bad" by a lot and even Jinder is slightly above that threshold as well, so no hope on those fronts.

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6 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

I don't think that you can argue that Enzo and Cass were the hottest NXT act

I agree here, they were cult favorites like Tyler Breeze, Adam Rose/Leo Kruger, and Emma. They may have gotten some initial buzz but they all fell into midcard (at best) roles on the main roster. Nothing wrong with being comedy midcarders, it varies the card and not everyone can be a main eventer*.

 

*Stone Cold, the midcardiest of midcarders in Memphis and WCW who said he went to WWF to be a carpenter/plumber, saying that "if you aren't aiming for the top you're in the wrong business" was such a shitty thing to say to young wrestlers. Making a living and getting exposure is okay especially if the boss doesn't particularly like you or totally gets your gimmick

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7 hours ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

I'm going to re-imagine the SNL Bill Brasky buddies sketches with Braun as Bill Brasky. Another 90's reference for you guys that love them so much.

WWE Drunk Legend: Braun Strowman was eight feet tall and chewed on jobbers like chaw to gain more protein so he could hit more softball home runs like his shoot father!

Legendary WWE Jobber: Terry Garvin molested me! And Donahue didn't believe me!

Silence from the group

Entire group at once raising drinks that piss off Vince but would make Bill Watts proud: TO BRAUN STROWMAN!

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5 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:

Reposting from an older thread, but my argument:

If we're focusing on what NXT was, solely as NXT, these three would have the case for the top spot. NXT's biggest benefit during the glory days was that all three divisions- the women with Bayley, the men with Sami Zayn, and the tag team division with Enzo and Cass- each had their own "Screw the titles, this person/people are the heart and soul of this division" and every fan kind of knew it.

What makes Enzo and Cass number one, though, was the fact that Enzo and Cass actively sucked in the ring, and people inherently knew this. In an NXT where fans were engineered to prefer great wrestling, and a division filled with great tag teams throughout the division who could actually wrestle, Enzo and Cass came in with two strikes against them in the NXT style as "Performance Center students with no particular run on the indies, let alone being indy darlings" and managed to not only hit a home run, but hit a grand slam down by three in the bottom of the ninth with two outs to win the World Series.

In a NXT where Full Sail was actively ready to despise anyone who didn't come from "muh indies", they managed to make Full Sail fall in love with them, EVEN WHILE KNOWING they were actively terrible in the ring. Even with the great character of Sami Zayn, there'd always be that question of "Did they love Sami Zayn, Moral Compass of NXT, or did they love El Generico (TRAINER IN AN ORPHANAGE OF! Sami Zayn!)"- and the same thing could be said for most of the women who were behind the Women's Revolution (with only Charlotte being a Performance Center graduate of the core "Women's Revolutionaries"). 

What Bayley and Sami Zayn did was a chemical reaction and made NXT so great- but if Bayley's biggest reason she would go above Sami Zayn would likely boil down to "Bayley made herself a star wholly in NXT", then it also had to be mentioned Enzo and Cass did it all in the tag division, without even getting to win the big one like Bayley or Zayn did, and did it without any indy cred at all to speak of (where even Bayley had a run in SHIMMER- and with how few indy women WWE hired until the Women's Revolution took, even that small run would be enough to say "Did they love Bayley, or did they love Davina Rose (NOT! Bayley!)" 

Sami Zayn was loved because he never betrayed his good guy tendencies in NXT. Even after Neville called him a goody goody and said that Zayn couldn't win without betraying his morals. That's why he was loved, he never betrayed that in NXT.

Pretty much the same with Bayley. She got more aggressive but she was still the starstruck fangirl at heart. It was the main roster that changed that for Sami and Bayley.

Enzo and Cass would have been tag champs if Enzo didn't break his foot (or whatever it was). By the time he healed AA, Blake and Murphy and The Revival had risen so E&C were stuck between a rock and a hard place before their call up.

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4 hours ago, The Natural said:

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I'll repeat this story. One of my best friends at university said everyone looks good is a suit. Big Asshole is an exception to that.

Everybody looks like a tool in a suit. Shows you have no real flair for fashion if you need to wear matching pants and jacket. Enjoy the middle if you love suits.

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3 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:

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How dare you!

Isn't it odd that the only person more beloved in Mexico than the two known assholes Vampiro and Konann is the gigantic asshole Morrisey? And that none of them are Mexican?

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43 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

I missed the date by a couple days but 17 years ago DDP cut one of my all time favourite promos -

 

He tried to do what Sting tried to do when he signed. DDP made it about being made famous since UT stole that slogan/catchphrase from Billy Gunn. Sting tried to say it wasn't about WCW vs WWE it was that HHH was an asshole and needed to be stopped. Bookers put a stop to their improvs real quick after that, if I'm remembering correctly.

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