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ALL ENCOMPASSING STAR WARS THREAD


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On 11/24/2020 at 12:28 AM, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Oh, that’s what that was. It’s a good thing I stopped watching the new movies after TFA.

 

On 11/24/2020 at 1:53 AM, Niners Fan in CT said:

You didn't miss anything. 

I recommend Rogue One.

Edited by The Natural
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5 hours ago, EVA said:

 

*Speaking of syndicated quality:  For as much money as Disney spends on this show (upwards of $100 million per season), it’s very amusing to me when you start seeing TV budget constraints randomly come in to play.  For instance, in the 3rd and 4th episodes of this season, there are two corridor shootouts on completely different planets that are clearly the exact same corridor set, just slightly restaged.  Likewise, once you get past the CGI establishing shot of the occupied city in The Jedi, the “city” certainly appears to just be one street, with the seat of power not more than 50 feet away from the outer walls.

This has been my pet peeve for a while now with this program. It’s more noticeable when almost every cantina looks identical, with different gel lighting. But you just have to expect it’s been apart of making movies & TV since the beginning.

For my personal favorite episode of this season, it’s still gotta be episode 2, and I can’t believe people don’t like it. It’s easily the best directed episode from start to finish. It gets the best use of its sets during action, and dialogue while looking big budget. It even manages the best use out of Baby Yoda. No other episode this season yet has found a way to get that character involved with a major action set piece except this episode. 

I have this theory on Baby Yoda that before this season, the plan was they would get him involved in bounty hunts, like he was Daigoro in Lone Wolf & Cub. But some executive nixed it, along with Mando doing more bounties. So instead we end up with our protagonists kind of pussyfooting around the galaxy to avoid hurting the marketability of the little guy. I mean did you see the reaction to him eating those eggs? Just think if he shot that little alien that held him hostage.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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RE: Ahsoka and the number of Jedi out there. It has been a consistent theme through a lot of Star Wars media, that no one really seems to know how many survived. Everyone from Cal Kestis on after, seem to believe it's just them and maybe a handful of others.  I mean, that is what Palpatine wanted, for everyone to think all the Jedi were dead, and it worked.

Also I'm glad we didn't veer into *another* TLJ argument. That bantha has been beaten to death.

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I honestly have zero recollection of episodes 2, 3, or 4, that's how unremarkable they were and how much they blend in with every other blah episode in the series. I remember episode 1 well because of Space Raylan and also because it was incredibly lazy to kick the new season off already recycling TWO plots people complained about from the previous season. It's like they thought, well, if we just have both in the same episode then maybe it will be greater than the sum of its parts or something.

And I vaguely remember Bo Katan doing something or whatever.

@EVAhit the nail on the head. I mean, we're now through FIVE episodes and we have yet to see what the fuck is up with Temura Morrison at the end of episode 1. You can't give people a stinger like that and just not follow up on it. The complete lack of any kind of urgency with this series is maddening because these are short seasons with sub 60 minute episodes.

Here's the entire series - Mando takes a bounty and discovers he has to deliver Grogu to a scientist with the former Empire, Mando decides he can't hand over a seemingly harmless child and goes rogue, fighting ensues because of his decision, Moff Gideon then has to get involved directly to take the child and fails, we later learn that the former parts of the Empire want the child because of his high M-Cell count and they need his blood to power whatever creepy cloning shit they're doing, and Ahsoka won't give Grogu the training it may or may not need because it could go the way of the dark side and Mando instead needs to take Grogu to Tython so it can choose it's own path. Oh, and Mando is on again off again search for other Mandalorians. I mean, that's it. That's like, what, 3, maybe 4 episodes total?

And along the way, we get really interesting shit dropped in our laps that gets little to no follow up. We've had shit like Moff Gideon has the darksaber, Din's clan was part of a death cult that raised him in a really fucking weird way, Din trying to obtain more Beskar for his armor, Beskar is basically indestructible even resisting direct hits from a lightsaber and heavy canon fire, possible super storm troopers or whatever, whatever the fuck it is the Empire has been doing on the outer rim, someone that looks like a battle scarred Jango Fett clone shows up because?, and the Mandalorians that helped Din up and bounced without even giving him a way to reach them. All of this are little or big things that get dropped on us in service of more...Mando out there bounty huntin' and getting into adventures on weird planets.

Somehow, despite all of these gripes, I still like the series even if you can throw most of it away. Sometimes the settings are really interesting, it's nice seeing more planets explored, and it's fun to watch something be successful that doesn't involve the Skywalker Family Drama.

Edited by Craig H
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Of the 13 episodes of the show so far, I think there are like 7 that actually push the main story forward in a meaningful way (1.1-1.3, 1.7-1.8, 2.3, 2.5).

I hope I’m wrong about this, but based on how they’ve paced things out so far, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if yhe next episode is some kind of random detour or side quest on their way to Tython.

Edited by EVA
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I don't think it's healthy for anyone to judge the show that you want them to be making instead of the show that they're trying to make. I'm not saying you can't do it, but you're just going to get aggravated. The purpose of the show doesn't seem to be about moving the plot ahead every week but instead to tell stylized stories that let them do western/monster/samurai style stories that occasionally move the broader plot along. It's more Doctor Who than Game of Thrones. It's ok to prefer the latter to the former, but I'm pretty sure they're doing exactly what they're setting out to do here.

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That's my guess. I'm not counting on seeing Tython this season. Hell, I doubt we even learn more about Jango/Boba/whoever, the darksaber (even though Bo Katan said she's looking for it), the clone things, or the other Mandalorians this season. I'm guessing at some point in the next 3 episodes, assuming this season is also only 8 episodes long, we'll get Din and Grogu stuck somewhere trying to save someone and it will again take the help of Space Apollo Creed, Space Raylan, and Cara Dune to bail everyone out. That's just how it feels like the formula for this series is going to be, but I'll be happy to be wrong. This is more me setting the bar low and not having high expectations.

We practically got a full episode dedicated to Ahsoka and that was pretty cool and unexpected. When the Sasha Banks stuff got announced I figured that every media outlet was blowing it way out of proportion and people were setting themselves up for disappointment. I was right there, but I'm happy I was wrong when I thought the same thing about Ahsoka.

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On 11/27/2020 at 5:41 AM, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Forget the hyped guest star. Michael Biehn is here!

I didn't recognize him!  I spent the whole episode thinking, "man this guys is familiar!"  My wife is a massive Terminator fan and she didn't recognize him, either.  Time is a harsh mistress, bros.

I need to get with @Matt D's interpretation of this show and relax a little, because I'm getting impatient with the fetch quest nature of it.  I love the show and the look and feel of it and all that, but "Mando goes to a place, gets into some local mess, solves the locals' problem, gets a clue at the end which leads him to a new place, rinse, repeat" is wearing on me. 

Also, Boba Fett shows up at the end of episode 1 and then we probably won't see him again until the finale or something.  Come on.

Edited by Technico Support
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I legit do not find the lore, or plot of this show compelling whatsoever. Especially if they give it to you in the vague “Read the supplemental material” way. You gotta do more than give me a Star Wars word. That’s why I only care about the setting, and action. I just need a sci-fi fix, and this also gives me a tv western fix too. Honestly the best lore this show has helped flesh out is Mando’s new armor, and the metal Beskar. That’s really because they put a lot into it. If they did it with everything else I’d care more.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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Guys, don’t let Matt guilt you into thinking the problem with the show is your expectations!  The problem with the show is that it’s not a very good version of the show it’s trying to be.  Filoni and Favreau have created some fantastic toys but too frequently they put them in the wrong sandbox.

I prefer the episodes that are more tightly focused on the main storyline, not because I have some preference for serialized shows (I don’t) but because that is when the show is clearly at its best and the standalone eps are often quite bad.

There is nothing inherently wrong with the format of interspersing “mythology” eps (to use the old X-Files verbiage) with a bunch of standalone eps that sprinkle bread crumbs to the next big thing.  That was kind of the standard format for most genre shows (and a lot of great ones) for a long time.  But there was a key difference between the shows that did that successfully and the Mandalorian:  format.  They were long-form shows, with significantly longer episode orders and and, often, longer episodes in general.  There was less pressure on those shows to be about their business. 

Conversely, Mandalorian is 8 episodes per year, with most eps clocking in at a little over half an hour.  We spend precious little time in this world with these characters, and that’s why it just intinrisically feels bad when they, say, waste 50 minutes on a wild goose chase on Tatooine.

On top of that, the standalone episodes tend to drift away from the central dynamic that drives the series (Mando protecting/relating to the Grogu).  Every time Mando pawns Grogu off to a babysitter to do some random job, all the air goes out of the show.  It becomes a pretty generic sci-fi action show when Mando is on his own, and the standalone plots are seldom good enough to support the weight of the show without the central  Mando/Grogu dynamic at play, no matter how many killer guest stars they line up.

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It’s tough when your co-stars job is to be cute, and mute. That scene with the baby, and Ahsoka I thought was terrible. They should’ve thought twice before they green-lit the thing knowing how many times they’d find a way to write him off the show.

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Grogu is definitely a blessing and a curse.  The show was going to be big, regardless, but the Baby Yoda effect is what made it a cultural phenomenon.  But now you have to keep feeding the beast.

And I imagine that it is, indeed, very difficult to figure out ways to keep Grogu plausibly involved in the action. I don’t want to minimize that at all.  But that’s the bargain they struck when they decided to make him central to the show, and they get paid millions to figure it out.

Instead, they’ve done a lot of punting.

Edited by EVA
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EVA is killing it. This has been a good dissection of what the series is and why, at least to me and others I know, it's something of a bust. A couple other friends already checked out of it. My one friend who likes a lot of Star Wars stuff made the joke that when they go to the writers room the question comes up what is Mando going to do in this episode and the response is, "I don't know, uh, ditch baby Yoda and go hunt bounties?"

If their goal is to be like Doctor Who, and to be completely honest, that's how I've started thinking about the Mandalorian before Matt D brought it up, then I guess they're nailing it. Except even with Doctor Who, the standalone stuff is genuinely fun to see the Doctor (whichever version) interact with the people around him. In this, the main characters are a guy in an emotionless suit who speaks in a monotone, emotionless way, and a $1 million puppet that looks pretty fucking cute. And that's it. You generally have to rely on the guest star of the week to provide the heavy lifting for emoting and there's a couple times where it's worked very well (Timothy Olyphant, Rosario Dawson, and maybe Carl Weathers) and a bunch of times where it doesn't (woman from Strangers with Candy, Bill Burr, Gina Carano, Bobby Cannavale's son, etc.).

I don't even think the settings are all that interesting because they're mostly the same. There's a reason why episode 5 this season is getting a ton of praise and that's because the photography was beautiful and the setting was fairly unique. The settings are all mostly the same, presumably for budgetary reasons, but that's been my one nit pick about Star Wars for a long time now in that it feels like the galaxy is 90% desert planets.

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To put it another way, imagine season 1 of Breaking Bad, but that's what season 2 was like and then that's what season 3 was like. That's suddenly a very dull series that's just dragging you along without ever feeling like it's going somewhere. I typically give the first season of tv series a break because they're finding their footing, but you kinda have to start pushing the envelope and reinventing yourself to prevent what you're making from growing stale. 

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Honestly, I think you guys are underselling the done-in-ones and the scope of episodes in S2. 

  • Super charismatic Boba Fett armor guy and sand people and giant monster.
  • Giant spider and egg-eating and Appa as an X-Wing Pilot
  • Bo-Katan doing Bo-Katan shit (admittedly, if you haven't seen the animated stuff, this means a lot less, but I can't help you there. Go get a 6 year old and go to town. I did it in this thread over the span of a year or so).
  • Samurai Ahsoka.
  • The stuff with the S1 pals I actually found pretty forgettable. I remember they had to go to a tower for some reason and there was a car chase with tie fighters? I don't know. We got some plot stuff there actually, right?

I think there were more done-in-one episodes in S1 that didn't work than in S2 so far. Even then, something like the jailbreak episode (which was not great) can really rest on the guest stars. 

All that said, the 8 year old is watching S1 right now, and she's going to go nuts for the Darksaber reveal at the end and Bo-Katan and Ahsoka in S2 but literally all she cares about right now is Baby Yoda and she got visibly frustrated he was off screen so long in the jailbreak episode and then doubly so that Mando had to save him when he was about to use the force because she wanted to see him wreck that guy. 

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I much more interested in the story of the week stuff, rather than the overarching plot. I'll be quite content if the show continues to be Kung Fu in Space and each week is just Mando travelling around and helping people with their problems. Touched by a Mandalorian.

It's not gonna happen, but I actually wouldn't mind if there isn't any sort of end game with Grogu. Like everytime Mando thinks he's close to an answer something, another obstacle or dead end comes up. Fate seems to be a big part of Star Wars, what if all these dead ends are fate trying to tell him to quit searching and accept that he and Grogu are meant to be together; no lost race to take him in, no Jedi to train him.

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I think this debate boils down to how long the series is expected to run.  It feels to me like Disney thinks "we have a smash hit on our hands,  let's do all these little cool side quests to lengthen the run"  but if they were to announce season 3 is the finale then it'd feel more like they wasted time.  

I don't necessarily think they are wasting time though,  I think this series has two objectives: 

1. Mando gets Grogu to X 

2. Introduce characters that will expand the TV Universe for years to come. 

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They are definitely milking this thing for as long as possible.  Disney has already come out and said that streaming is their future, and this is by far their biggest (and currently *only*) hit show.

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Disney did announce that they are going full steam ahead with Disney+ planning to spend millions and millions for future programming so this is the first..  the Marvel shows are on the way and there will likely be a WAVE of new Star Wars content.  An Ahsoka Tano show is likely among others..    

This TV Universe is going to be like when Thanos would show up for ten seconds and it took years to get to the conclusion of that arc.   It will all be satisfying in the end but you will have to spend hours with Tony Stark fighting random guy in a suit that he wronged. 

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You guys typed a lot of things since I was last here this morning. I love all parts of this show. The standalone episodes, and the ones that move the greater plot. I look forward to this 40 minutes every week, so idk maybe I should just dissect more.

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