CWC EPISODE TEN - SEMIS & FINALS (9/1416)

[turk128]

This was a scary sight, like a freakin shark diving at his prey:

[Red is Dead]

That Pele kick reversal into the kneebar. Watch the "Paul Heyman Guy" tshirt dude. You could see his colour drain from his face and his life flash before his eyes when perkins locked that in. 

Brilliant ending sequence.

[Craig H]

I fucking loved TJP throughout this tournament. It may have been his first match, but I've been blown away by the guy ever since. I thought for sure this would be setup to crown Gargano as the first Cruiserweight champion, but then he lost and I honestly had no idea which of the finalists would win it all. I know ZSJ and Ibushi talked about not signing with WWE, but I thought it could be one of those things where they're just keeping it kayfabe for everyone, then one of them would win, and then it would be revealed that they signed a contract the day of.

I loved all of the finalists though, and so many more throughout this tournament. This was my first exposure to Gulak, Galagher, TJP, Metalik, Tozawa, and Cedric Alexander. I'm totally fine with TJP winning. They beautifully setup him wearing Cinderella's slipper and have him be the underdog to win it all.

Going forward, I really hope to see many of these guys again. I hope they'll get the time they need to flourish on Raw so that this doesn't become a throwaway division.

And now I'm bummed. 10 episodes gone and there's no more CWC. Wednesday goes back to just watching NXT. No more Mauro and Bryan on commentary. And by the way, Mauro and Bryan killed it on commentary last night. I wondered how Bryan would do in a live commentary setting and he was awesome. A huge reason why this entire tournament worked was those two guys, especially Bryan, getting over why many of the little things the competitors did mattered so much. Raw and SmackDown are lacking that element in such a huge way. We talked before about how Ibushi kicking out of the Burning Hammer meant it would take an even bigger death move to put him away, but it was needed because Bryan sold Ibushi's history in the tournament, the wear and tear on Ibushi's neck, the bumps Ibushi took throughout the match, and then ultimately it was a combined submission to put Ibushi away and it worked. It worked brilliantly. I can't say enough about how well Bryan called the matches last night. After last night, I'd rank the announcers WWE has at 1) Daniel Bryan 2) Corey Graves 3) Mauro Ranallo.

[Craig H]

Also, change all of the turnbuckles on Raw, SD, and NXT to the CWC style. Way more padding and a wider platform for wrestlers to stand on.

[Beech27]

6 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

I'm still not sold on Metalik, and I'm not sure why he's so popular here. He's the epitome of the "empty spots" style that people hate. Granted, most of his spots do look great (like that high-jump rana to the floor), but his matches are all very "get my stuff in no matter what," which I guess will translate fine to the main roster. The match with ZSJ was really disjointed and not that good outside of some cool moves, but there's no way that's all on Zack. Metalik clearly had no interest in selling, transitioning, or establishing a coherent story either.

It's weird. I basically agree with all of these criticisms--in particular, in a tourney where basically everyone was criticized for inconsistent limb selling, his in the finals still managed to stand out as egregiously spotty--and yet I also find myself sold on him as a legitimate star on the main roster. I see the appeal. He'll get over, because he does fun, impressive spots in fun, impressive ways. And yet, I'm equally sure I'll be bored with all of them in six months or less.

I hope I'm wrong though! God knows it happens plenty. I haven't been too interested in Ibushi in a couple years, and I found his role as the de facto tourney ace--and the myriad underdog permutations it allowed--really interesting. I came away more impressed with the other guy each time, but at a certain point, you have to acknowledge the constant, not just the variables. 

[RIPPA]

For those that need this info

Meltzer

ZBJ/Metalik - 3 3/4

TJP/Ibushi - 4 1/2

Tag - 3 3/4

TJP/Metalik - 4 1/4

[JCM]

Ibushi had the best match 3 rounds in a row so yeah you kind of have to acknowledge the constant. I think he works WWE main event style far better than guys like Rollins and Owens. It would've been nice to get some limb selling in there somewhere, but the match with TJP was super fun. Honestly I don't think Nakamura has had three better matches so far in NXT than Ibushi's three matches in the CWC.

[RIPPA]

One thing mentioned last night is that it might end up being for the best that Ibushi didn't sign yet because they can bring him back outside of the cruiser weights.

He is basically the same weight and size and Balor and something like only 5 lbs lighter than AJ - so he can just come in as a dude looking to work the regular roster.

[Craig H]

I'm worried what they'd do with him outside of NXT and another CWC given he doesn't look like he speaks any English. Of course, you pair Heyman up with him, make Ibushi look like he can destroy anyone like Brock, and it's not a problem except I can't imagine anyone booing Ibushi.

[Beech27]

3 hours ago, RIPPA said:

One thing mentioned last night is that it might end up being for the best that Ibushi didn't sign yet because they can bring him back outside of the cruiser weights.

He is basically the same weight and size and Balor and something like only 5 lbs lighter than AJ - so he can just come in as a dude looking to work the regular roster.

As awesome as this tourney was, this does sort of highlight one potential main roster challenge, going forward. Just looking at Raw, you've got maaaaaaaaaaaybe six-foot Owens as your champ--and while he certainly doesn't make weight, the guy busts out springboard moonsaults from time to time. Rollins and Zayn are actually quite close to 205, and both--broadly speaking--wrestle a "cruiserweight style" already. That's to say nothing of Balor, when he comes back, who's technically within the classification . Even among the bigger guys, we see Reigns and Big E--himself only 5'11--doing dives in big moments. 

I don't really know what I'm getting at here, except a general notion that main eventers are smaller, and/or, for lack of a better term, indie-er. Like, if a future CW title match is Alexander/Itami, and the Universal belt is contested between Balor/Rollins... how different are those matches, really? And if the CW division isn't clearly different--in terms of style and/or a (maybe lower?) weight limit--then it's just going to be viewed as lesser. 

[Kyuubi]

10 hours ago, Tim Evans said:

Ibushi/TJP was amazing to watch live. The Full sail crowd HATED TJP to begin the night and were booing every mention of him before the show like he was roman reigns. The finish was awesome as they went nuts when Ibushi lost. TJP won them back after the Metalik match. I don't mind TJP winning as I guess he was the only one that could show up on Raw Monday.

Watching Sasha mark out for the tag match at ringside makes me like her even more. She's such a mark.

Dude, you were at the Fullsail Center? I would have gone, but I am strapped for cash since I am prepping for my LSAT and gas money to drive to and from Orlando is a bit too much.

Honestly my favorite match of the entire tournament is still Kota/Alexander with Kendrick and Ibushi being a close second. I just hope that Cedric is not the first defense for Perkins because I much rather him win the championship because, in my eyes, he is a better wrestler(No one ever loses in the first title defense for a brand new belt). Feed him Tony Neese or Adrian Neville or somebody. Now that I think about it, Finn Balor is qualified for the belt as well if he gets well soon. Anybody but Cedric or Kendrick or Gallagher or anybody I actually care about and want to be treated seriously.

As for the final matches, Gran Metallik is insane. Like I have seen some awesome highflying, but the shit he did with that floatover the rope hurricarana? Man has insane body control. TJP is probably the most mediocre guy, but I am happy that he won it in spite of just being that ZSJ and Ibushi would not sign. They were good matches all of them were. I just have a hard time buying that TJP beat Ibushi when Cedric with his insane kick in the face/brain buster combo could not and Kendrick's burning hammer straight on the neck could not. Even the hold that finished him off looked like shit, but it's whatever. 

The tag match was my favorite match of the night. There is something about Cruiserweights and tag matches that are always chaotic fun. Kind of sad that Cedric is bringing that stupid middle rope springboard complete shot to the WWE, but I still can believe how much 20 pounds effects a wrestler. Cedric did not move like this last year. Like he was good, don't get me wrong, but rewatching his old matches and I am shocked at the difference. Gargano and Ciampa grew on me, especially Gargano who I previously thought was a epitome of vanilla midget. Gargano does Shawn Michaels better than Dolph Ziggler although I afraid that is not much of a compliment. Noam Darr is by far one of the weakest links in the tournament.

I still think this is the best thing WWE has ever done and now am wondering what the fuck was CM Punk's problem with Triple H. I never knew him as a person who hated cruiserweights or indy stars. He just did not think CM Punk was that good and maybe he wasn't. Oh well, dude has promoted the best wrestling WWE has put out in 2 years and made me happy to be a fan again. This tournament is awesome and it was great to watch. If they make this an annual thing, I am definitely going to Fullsail to spectate.

[EVA]

It has to be a little bit of a black eye on HHH that he couldn't lock up Ibushi or ZSJ, the two guys clearly positioned as the cream of this crop from the start, coming out of this thing.  Maybe Ibushi less so, because he's an odd cat, and there's no accounting for what he decides to do at any moment.  But the biggest company in the world can't seal the deal on the skinny fat lad?

[Craig H]

That's a good point, but I imagine they're not going to pay ZSJ more than he would make elsewhere and ZSJ would also likely see a higher volume of work elsewhere. Better to do that than pick up whatever couple house shows or NXT shows you'll work.

It's why I don't understand making the CW division a Raw division. It should travel between both brands. Hell, the title color is red and blue combined to make purple. It would allow them to make better use of the cruiserweights on house shows since you could schedule those matches for each touring brand.

[Jiji]

Kyuubi, you should watch Dragon Lee do the rana off the apron spot, as I find his version to be more visually stunning. 

TJP is a guy who I saw as second best in each of his last three matches of the tournament. That's not a good look for the winner of such a talent-stacked tournament. He's everything I don't like in wrestling. He makes everything seem so effortless, and while Sabre can certainly be criticized for the same (and God knows so many of you have critiqued him for exactly that), I find Perkins' style way more offensive. There is little to no emotion in his matches. Everything he does is super graceful but if I wanted to watch pure grace there are way better forms for expression for that than wrestling. Sabre at least sells a struggle when applying some of his moves and I usually get the sense he's in a battle, while Perkins is focused more on looking cool and everything seems to come so easy for him. His story is nice but as a worker I'd have him in the bottom third of the tournament. That they couldn't get Ibushi signed or had Perkins go over because he's American seem like a combination of poor execution and lame a excuse to put over TJP.

In terms of a showcase and match quality, the tournament exceeded expectations. A few quibbles and some poor booking don't negate all of the great matches we got. And it's a shame about the booking because there was some legitimately fantastic subplots throughout.

[Niners Fan in CT]

7 hours ago, RIPPA said:

For those that need this info

Meltzer

ZBJ/Metalik - 3 3/4

TJP/Ibushi - 4 1/2

Tag - 3 3/4

TJP/Metalik - 4 1/4

I often disagree with Meltzer but I agree with his rankings here except the tag didn't do too much for me.

[Niners Fan in CT]

6 hours ago, Beech27 said:

 And if the CW division isn't clearly different--in terms of style and/or a (maybe lower?) weight limit--then it's just going to be viewed as lesser. 

They could possibly do like boxing/UFC and have the cruiserweight title (lower weight class title)  not mean as much as the heavyweight but have it be close. In boxing, it doesn't matter what the weight class is anymore, it matters WHO is holding the title. 

One way to show the importance of the cruiserweight title is to have some guys try to cut weight in order to get to 205. 

[evilwaldo]

9 hours ago, Craig H said:

That's a good point, but I imagine they're not going to pay ZSJ more than he would make elsewhere and ZSJ would also likely see a higher volume of work elsewhere. Better to do that than pick up whatever couple house shows or NXT shows you'll work.

It's why I don't understand making the CW division a Raw division. It should travel between both brands. Hell, the title color is red and blue combined to make purple. It would allow them to make better use of the cruiserweights on house shows since you could schedule those matches for each touring brand.

This.

If a guy is making good money under contract to another Fed that has treated him well he could be apprehensive looking at how the WWE has treated cruisers in the past, the current travel schedule, and how other wrestlers are being treated.

If you are making good money without the WWE schedule why sign?

[turk128]

12 hours ago, Craig H said:

I'm worried what they'd do with him outside of NXT and another CWC given he doesn't look like he speaks any English. Of course, you pair Heyman up with him, make Ibushi look like he can destroy anyone like Brock, and it's not a problem except I can't imagine anyone booing Ibushi.

Heyman prob think of a couple ways to turn him. Make him a ruthless ace, put him under a mask and say the peons don't deserve to witness his visage, etc. They have enough to make an asskicking Japanese stable with Heyman as ambassador.

[turk128]

11 hours ago, Craig H said:

That's a good point, but I imagine they're not going to pay ZSJ more than he would make elsewhere and ZSJ would also likely see a higher volume of work elsewhere. Better to do that than pick up whatever couple house shows or NXT shows you'll work.

Especially given that some of the behind the scenes people in WWE are not high on ZSJ and think he's over-rated.

[Wyld Samurai]

That'd be Fit, correct? Curious what Regal thinks. 

I'm pretty sure both love Jacky Boy.

[Go2Sleep]

12 hours ago, EVA said:

It has to be a little bit of a black eye on HHH that he couldn't lock up Ibushi or ZSJ, the two guys clearly positioned as the cream of this crop from the start, coming out of this thing.  Maybe Ibushi less so, because he's an odd cat, and there's no accounting for what he decides to do at any moment.  But the biggest company in the world can't seal the deal on the skinny fat lad?

I definitely don't see it as a blemish on HHH as an executive. The fact that WWE even ran the CWC is huge, and they still got several quality signings out of the deal.

Ibushi was gonna be a tough get because he's already a star in Japan. Guys like Nakamura and Itami who give that up to move halfway around the world, learn a new language, and work their way up the ladder in a new company are the exception not the norm. ZSJ is a little more surprising, but he is an indy superstar and one of a handful of guys right now who can pass on WWE in that situation.

[turk128]

4 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

That'd be Fit, correct? Curious what Regal thinks. 

I'm pretty sure both love Jacky Boy.

Yup, I forgot who the other one was.

[turk128]

 

[RIPPA]

Just for the record - ZBJ is moving his family to the US (at least according to the WON an issue or two ago)

That isn't to say he won't be working all over but just an FYI

[NikoBaltimore]

I don't blame ZSJ one bit for not signing.  Yeah, it's great it's going to start Monday but right now it's unproven how it's going to work out.  If he's waiting to make sure the division gets treated right then considers signing then that's a smart move.  I'm sure that due to CWC what he's making now will be a good bit more so he wins either way.  Ibushi seems like a wacky journeyman who can't be tied down.  He's got a helluva reputation and I'm sure will do just fine so good for him.