"Stone Cold" Steve Austin Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Worst and probably most protected - THE COBRAAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GojiColin Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Honestly the Oscutter doesn't bother me that much, I mean its just a dude leaping back into a cutter; at the very worst the taker of the move has to stumble around a bit so the move is set up; but to each their own, Now a great finisher is the Frog Splash. Eddie, D-Lo, Dash Chisako, Tanahashi, the list goes on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamp, broken circa 1988 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 16 hours ago, John E. Dynamite said: Osprey debuted a very silly new finisher recently. somewhere Kenta Kobashi is like "SEE, LIKE THAT" somewhere else Yoshinobu Kanemaru feels like someone just walked over his grave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwoy2j Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 I've been watching a lot of Mid-South and Mid-Atlantic lately and it seems like there's at least one match that ends with an abdominal stretch into a roll-up on every show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 That is very fruitily-embellished/convoluted but at least it looks impactful. At the same time I was hoping he'd just powerbomb KUSHIDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafkonia Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 I think it would be better if he just did half the rotation and slammed the guy down face-first, rather than spinning all the way into taking a back bump himself like the Roll-the-Dice/CrossRhodes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lamp, broken circa 1988 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 you never go full diamond head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 I'm going to put all legitimate MMA/Jiu Jitsu submissions as wrestling finishers on the worst list. The thing that makes wrestling submissions work is the drama of being able to fight the submission. It doesn't make sense to try to fight a rear naked choke or an arm bar once its locked in. You can fight an armbar before your opponent puts it on, but if your opponent doesn't tap it doesn't make much sense not to just snap their arm. If someone has you in a rear naked choke, you have 10 seconds at the most before you pass out...no exceptions. Why use a rear naked choke, when you can use a cobra clutch? Why use an armbar instead of a full nelson or another pro wrestling hold? It just doesn't really make sense to me that instead of using moves made for your sport, you steal moves from another sport that don't really fit. It would be like a quarterback trying to throw a chest pass like in basketball. Sure, they are both passes, but they aren't interchangeable. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 On 5/5/2018 at 8:36 AM, GojiColin said: Honestly the Oscutter doesn't bother me that much, I mean its just a dude leaping back into a cutter; at the very worst the taker of the move has to stumble around a bit so the move is set up; but to each their own, Now a great finisher is the Frog Splash. Eddie, D-Lo, Dash Chisako, Tanahashi, the list goes on. Art Barr's was amazing. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overly Critical Man Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 18 minutes ago, supremebve said: I'm going to put all legitimate MMA/Jiu Jitsu submissions as wrestling finishers on the worst list. The thing that makes wrestling submissions work is the drama of being able to fight the submission. It doesn't make sense to try to fight a rear naked choke or an arm bar once its locked in. You can fight an armbar before your opponent puts it on, but if your opponent doesn't tap it doesn't make much sense not to just snap their arm. If someone has you in a rear naked choke, you have 10 seconds at the most before you pass out...no exceptions. Why use a rear naked choke, when you can use a cobra clutch? Why use an armbar instead of a full nelson or another pro wrestling hold? It just doesn't really make sense to me that instead of using moves made for your sport, you steal moves from another sport that don't really fit. It would be like a quarterback trying to throw a chest pass like in basketball. Sure, they are both passes, but they aren't interchangeable. Sleeperholds and armbars have been a thing in pro wrestling for over a hundred years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Shouldn't a rear naked choke be illegal in pro wrestling lore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kafkonia Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 4 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said: Shouldn't a rear naked choke be illegal in pro wrestling lore? I believe that was Kurt Angle's exact argument when he lost to Tazz in the latter's debut match. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, kafkonia said: I believe that was Kurt Angle's exact argument when he lost to Tazz in the latter's debut match. It eas an even bigger deal when Dusty started using The Weaver Lock and the baddies wpuld complain it was a choke. They'd bring out Johnny Weaver to demonstrate and then he'd slap people back to life by hitting them on their backs like a newborn naby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Weak Machine Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Bockwinkel and Heenan on the sleeper: 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Stone Cold" Steve Austin Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 13 hours ago, Pete said: Art Barr's was amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 6 hours ago, Overly Critical Man said: Sleeperholds and armbars have been a thing in pro wrestling for over a hundred years. Like @Wyld Samurai said, in kayfabe terms, a sleeper is not a choke. The armbars that have been used are moves to wear down an opponent, not to snap their arm. My problem comes from when they use MMA jargon to describe moves that aren't used in that context. If someone wants to use a sleeper, which is supposedly not a choke, fine. As soon as you just call it a choke and let people use it with impunity you are undercutting the credibility of the move. Same with the armbar. As long as it is a hold to wear down the arm, fight it all you want. As soon as you make it a legit jiu-jitsu hold, there is no reason for the person not to just snap their arm. Now it just looks like these people are terrible at choking and armbarring people, because their opponent is just lying around in a move that should end a fight instantly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Chris Jericho knows at least 50 variations of the armbar. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sublime Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 I have issues with Charlotte's Figure 8 because it reduces the drama of the match, once she has the bridge there is a lack of drama, it makes it pretty much impossible for the opponent to reverse it and it doesn't allow for the camera to have those shots of the two opponents facing each other as they struggle in the hold like the figure four allows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 1 hour ago, Sublime said: I have issues with Charlotte's Figure 8 because it reduces the drama of the match, once she has the bridge there is a lack of drama, it makes it pretty much impossible for the opponent to reverse it and it doesn't allow for the camera to have those shots of the two opponents facing each other as they struggle in the hold like the figure four allows. Not only that, it seems like bridging like that takes pressure off of the hold. It's a hold that is about downward pressure, it doesn't really work when you elevate the legs like that. Over the last two days I've realized I spend a lot of time thinking about the mechanics of wrestling submissions. I don't know if I should get a life, or if I've found my calling. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 You just reminded me thst what I hate most about the current WWE production is thst the stupid ring post LED lights make it impossible for the coolest spot ever to happen again in a WWE ring - the ring post figure 4. I still wonder how or where Bret came up with that. It was genius to add thst to his heel repertoire. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 That frog splash video leaves me to believe WWE does own When Worlds Collide. Why in hell isn't it on the network? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 2 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said: You just reminded me thst what I hate most about the current WWE production is thst the stupid ring post LED lights make it impossible for the coolest spot ever to happen again in a WWE ring - the ring post figure 4. I still wonder how or where Bret came up with that. It was genius to add thst to his heel repertoire. That is a move that didn't make sense either...but I don't even care. That shit was dope. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyld Samurai Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 It made sense as a wear down move. Austin could never reverse it as Bret was too far away. In No DQ / No Count Out matches it's lethal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 9, 2018 Share Posted May 9, 2018 13 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said: It made sense as a wear down move. Austin could never reverse it as Bret was too far away. In No DQ / No Count Out matches it's lethal. Yeah, but hanging off the ring post takes pressure off of the hold to the point that it would be less painful than if the hold was applied in the middle of the ring. The figure four is essentially crossing the legs over each other and applying pressure to the top leg and bending the bottom against that pressure. Once you hang off of the ring post, the top leg is falling towards their opponent's feet instead of straight down on the leg. It looks really cool, but it doesn't make any sense if the goal is to afflict pain on your opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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