AUGUST WRESTLING DISCUSSION THREAD

[alan]

Shelf life, yes like everything, but roiding up and bashing fake russians was not unsustainable. Eight years of Reagan says otherwise.

[Charlie M.]

Massive goal post shift from how the Roadies/Nastys comparison originated.  It wasn't about who drew more money or had a better look.  It was just about who was better at working non-brawling tags.

[jaedmc]

GTFO with that Mark Henry pity party that didn't get to have "a novelty". He had REALITY. He had legit claim as one of the strongest men in the WORLD. Road Warriors didn't get that. Someone sad they were the baddest dudes, and they made people believe it. Someone said Mark Henry was the World's Strongest Man because he actually was. He didn't have to make people suspend disbelief because they could just play videos of him lifting Volkswagen's and dunking basketballs.

[jstout]

When were the Nasty Boys a good tag team? I can't recall anything but the Hogan cronies who were stinking up the Monday Night Wars-era WCW with "The Pit Stop." Or were they actually good then and my mark ass thought they sucked because The Pit Stop was such a stupid thing to do.

 

The Road Warriors had more charisma in an eyelash than those guys had in their whole bodies, and could talk circles around them, too. I agree that the Road Warriors become exposed when you have to branch out from playing "Iron Man" and having them destroy jobbers, but they seemed to have gotten around that pretty well.

[Brock Samson]

Massive goal post shift from how the Roadies/Nastys comparison originated.  It wasn't about who drew more money or had a better look.  It was just about who was better at working non-brawling tags.

 

Were either of them actually very good at that?  I'm not sure where I'd rank the Roadies in the territories they worked, but it wouldn't be at the top.  In JCP, they'd be third or fourth at best (behind Arn/Tully and the Midnight, for certain.  Most likely behind the R&R).  On the other hand, they got over huge, they drew well, and the act was a lot of fun. Whatever the "it" factor is in pro wrestling - presence, charisma - they had it in spades. 

 

As far as the idea that the Roadies were more a formula and you could replace them with two similarly roided up, stiff dudes, eh, Powers of Pain, Demolition, Master Blasters and a bunch of other hurty big man teams say otherwise,

[SirSmUgly]

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about Kevin Sullivan matches worth watching. I have seen lots of his WCW stuff, but not much of his Florida/Army of Darkness stuff. I just enjoy him so much as a squash match wrestler, and I have always liked the Varsity Club stuff and even some of the Taskmaster stuff that he did (particularly in feuding with the Horsemen and Pillman). 

 

What are Sullivan's best matches worth tracking down? 

[cool arrow]

I was wondering if anyone had any ideas about Kevin Sullivan matches worth watching. I have seen lots of his WCW stuff, but not much of his Florida/Army of Darkness stuff. I just enjoy him so much as a squash match wrestler, and I have always liked the Varsity Club stuff and even some of the Taskmaster stuff that he did (particularly in feuding with the Horsemen and Pillman). 

 

What are Sullivan's best matches worth tracking down? 

 

His falls-count-anywhere match against Norman was fun.

[Victator]

Hawk had this incredible aura to him.and tremendous charisma. I think you could have put the World Belt on him and he would have been even bigger. Animal has some charisma and was actually very athletic and a smart work guy. But Hawk was the heart of the team and you could put a guy like Sasaki in the green pads and paint and have an instantly credible team. Animal never had that ability, Droz and Heidenreich always felt like the 00's members of Kiss wearing the Peter Criss and Ace Frehley makeup. I think the Road Warriors were better at working face in peril stuff, playing monster heel and Demolition Derby style power matches. Nasty Boys were better at brawls and working traditional heel matches. 

[jaedmc]

I'll have to look it over, but I might actually dig Kensuke and Hawk over Hawk and Animal. 

[Ace]

So would you say that the Road Warriors aren't unlike Mark Henry in that they were given a role and performed better than just about anybody could?

 

Seems pretty obvious that the Road Warriors are the Mark Henry of tag teams.

 

The real difference is that it didn't take the Roadies 8-10 to figure it out, unlike Henry (and the bookers,really.)

[SirSmUgly]

I love the Road Warriors. Them murdering poor Eaton and Lane was awesome. Generally, it was always awesome when they yelled a lot and then murdered dudes. I could watch them squash jobbers on NWA Worldwide all day. 

 

 

So would you say that the Road Warriors aren't unlike Mark Henry in that they were given a role and performed better than just about anybody could?

 

Seems pretty obvious that the Road Warriors are the Mark Henry of tag teams.

 

The real difference is that it didn't take the Roadies 8-10 to figure it out, unlike Henry (and the bookers,really.)

 

 

Thinking about those super-heavyweight types, doesn't it usually take years and years, like eight to ten years, for them to figure it out? The only super-heavyweight that I can think of that was pretty much immediately good is The Big Show. Even Vader needed some time with the AWA and Japan to figure things out, though that was maybe only four or five years.

 

Otherwise, it feels like most really huge guys aren't good for a long, long, LONG while. I could be wrong, though. 

[nate]

Someone on this page has the best signature ever: I think everyone can guess who.

 

Fuck a WCW/WWF Wargames ... The kitten, the puppy and the sloth.  You will TAAAAAP to their triple team finisher, "Adorable OVERLOAD '13!"

[Victator]

 

So would you say that the Road Warriors aren't unlike Mark Henry in that they were given a role and performed better than just about anybody could?

 

Seems pretty obvious that the Road Warriors are the Mark Henry of tag teams.

 

The real difference is that it didn't take the Roadies 8-10 to figure it out, unlike Henry (and the bookers,really.)

 

Henry was better in 98 than the Warriors were in 83/84.

[Newb82]

Show was nowhere near "immediately good".

[nate]

I like this revised version of SummerSlam 2004 by WWE.

 

Yeah, I remember that show ... *STEVIE RICHARDS* really brought a great match out of Orton that night.

[Victator]

He was really athletic but he was really protected. The Havoc 95 match, is probably Hulk Hogan's single best performance. He made Show look unstoppable in his first match. 

[SirSmUgly]

Show was nowhere near "immediately good".

 

Maybe I'm missing something, but watching all these 1995/96 Nitros and PPVs, the dude knows how to use his size effectively and eventually figures out when it is worth it to do something physically crazy for his size instead of just doing those things routinely. 

 

I'm not saying he's at the all-timer level that he was by the time he had that match with Floyd Mayweather Jr. or anything, but I am going to have to disagree - he's a good young wrestler at this point. 

 

Edit: I agree that Hogan was fantastic in that Havoc '95 match. In '95/'96, The Giant basically benefits from wrestling on a routine basis guys that know what they are doing like Hogan, Flair, Sting, Savage, etc. 

[Victator]

For his level of experience he was good. But I think WCW went to more trouble to protect him, than the WWF did Mark Henry. Who had as much raw potential as Show, but was being hung out to dry. 

[Ace]

 

 

So would you say that the Road Warriors aren't unlike Mark Henry in that they were given a role and performed better than just about anybody could?

 

Seems pretty obvious that the Road Warriors are the Mark Henry of tag teams.

 

The real difference is that it didn't take the Roadies 8-10 to figure it out, unlike Henry (and the bookers,really.)

 

Henry was better in 98 than the Warriors were in 83/84.

 

 

But he didn't know how to properly portray himself until around 2004 or so, when he had his first run as a monster against Benoit.

[SirSmUgly]

For his level of experience he was good. But I think WCW went to more trouble to protect him, than the WWF did Mark Henry. Who had as much raw potential as Show, but was being hung out to dry. 

 

I would agree with this. The WWF was generally unimpressive at booking, protecting, or developing super-heavyweight types around the time Vader showed up. Vader, Henry, and Show immediately come to mind as poorly-booked superheavyweights. It's even more pronounced if you look at how they protected, say, the Undertaker's typical super-heavyweight opponents two or three years back. Kamala and Gonzalez were treated worlds better than Henry or Show. I wonder what caused this seeming change in Vince McMahon's booking philosophy over that couple of years. 

[Newb82]

Show has improved dramatically, but he has a lot more bad matches than good ones. He has been the best he's ever been since the 2008 comeback and the addition of the KO punch. He still has some stinkers in big spots, but most of those are due to him not having the best chemistry with Cena.

When he first started, he may have been the worst promo in either WWF or WCW.

[Victator]

 

 

 

So would you say that the Road Warriors aren't unlike Mark Henry in that they were given a role and performed better than just about anybody could?

 

Seems pretty obvious that the Road Warriors are the Mark Henry of tag teams.

 

The real difference is that it didn't take the Roadies 8-10 to figure it out, unlike Henry (and the bookers,really.)

 

Henry was better in 98 than the Warriors were in 83/84.

 

 

But he didn't know how to properly portray himself until around 2004 or so, when he had his first run as a monster against Benoit.

 

He was really good in 02 and 03. But he got injured during those runs. Check out the match with Brock, Henry looks like he is just as big and bad as Brock.  

I would agree with this. The WWF was generally unimpressive at booking, protecting, or developing super-heavyweight types around the time Vader showed up. Vader, Henry, and Show immediately come to mind as poorly-booked superheavyweights. It's even more pronounced if you look at how they protected, say, the Undertaker's typical super-heavyweight opponents two or three years back. Kamala and Gonzalez were treated worlds better than Henry or Show. I wonder what caused this seeming change in Vince McMahon's booking philosophy over that couple of years. 

 

The 86/87 booking of Kamala was great. But I thought he was booked terribly in 92. The Taker feud made no dramatic sense. Taker destroys and humiliates Kamala at Summerslam. Then they have a casket match where Kamala is terrified and Taker dominates him again. I think in general the WWF/E wants fat guys to be like King Kong Bundy and Yokozuna. Guys who can stooge and bump for anybody, but be dominant enough, they can crush anyone credibly.They were good with tall guys. Just let them run over everyone. But they went off course in 98, when they made Kurrgan a comedy act. When they had been doing a pretty solid job building him up in the mid card. Then Big Show got there and they became obsessed with having a skinny giant. Which I think was more a Jim Ross fetish than Vince. Since Ross harped on Vader's weight every fucking show in 98. Even though Vader looked like he always did. I remember Ross interrupting other announcers who put Vader over. Just to get his digs in. All while Vader was putting over every guy on the roster. 

[bornintofilth]

 

Road Warriors were pretty good at getting Karate Kicked by Stan Lane, though, so they're the greatest tag team ever.

 

I want this on a t-shirt.

[Assassin]

This match exists.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=udsKgN0bcwo

[cool arrow]

Every Japanese wrestler in WCW during this time frame was basically a more athletic version of Kinji Shibuya and Mitsu Arakawa.  They never actually bowed or threw salt in their opponents' eyes, but I always got the feeling they could.