WrestleDream - 10/1/2023

[Octopus]

If I was an EWR wrestler my gimmick would be “No Gimmick Needed”

*eats clams and transforms my skin to blend into a nearby rock* derp

 

[Belgian_Waffle]

I've meant to ask this for awhile now but do we know if Nick Wayne's mom got a talent contract when they signed Nick? I have to think the real heat (as if we haven't already seen the realest of heat in this program) is her turning heel as well and joining her son at Christian's arm. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

11 hours ago, Octopus said:

eats clams and transforms my skin to blend into a nearby rock* derp

Nah, you got your own thing going - it's like 'The Ryland Effect' but with more chromatophores

[Curt McGirt]

Kris comes off really mean as a powerhouse, almost heelish. Posi alien is more appealing. Maybe I just miss the boop?

[SirFozzie]

16 hours ago, Octopus said:

If I was an EWR wrestler my gimmick would be “No Gimmick Needed”

*eats clams and transforms my skin to blend into a nearby rock* derp

 

Something like, I forget whom, (Shawn Stasiak?) where he'd come out each week as a parody of another wrestler? You could call it "All Gimmicks Needed"

 

edit: Actually looked it up. Charlie Haas

Edited October 4, 2023 by SirFozzie

[Octopus]

Well, I was able to watch Danielson vs Sabre Jr. It was the second greatest thing I’ve seen this week (second to when lil Octopus would point to a picture of Humpty Dumpty, wait for me to say Humpty Dumpty, then drop backwards to his butt with a proud sly look on his face, only to repeat that multiple times). 

I will watch it again and write my thoughts. I have a lot. I think this match was truly grand. Maybe even as close to perfect in what I want in a wrestling match.  So many rapidly firing thoughts. I’m gonna watch it immediately twice. 

[Octopus]

I want to start by saying the announcing is fantastic in this match. Jon Moxley really takes the lead by contributing both character/ fighting style insight and successfully shaping a tone to the match by regularly giving the viewers an easy to follow story amongst technical maneuvers in an approachable manner. Mox’s uncontrolled yet cool excitement added to my appreciation of what I was seeing the same way Tony Schiavone did in the first few months of AEW. Nigel McGuiness’s cartoonish praise of villains was endearing. It added color that balanced Mox and gave just enough time to Excalibur to call the occasional move. Nigel also sets up early that Danielson has an injured arm. JR got a couple of good quotes in and Nigel knew how to work with him early and swayed a potential derailment in the entrance. They really hype up early the theme of this match, Who is the best technical wrestler? Excalibur also relates it to the Inoki then of the POV, by relating this contest to Inoki vs Robinson. Great work, fellas.

Mox explains it well. Zack is an offensive minded chain-based wrestler that will set a series of traps and Danielson is the better striker, but for technical wrestling is much more reactive and willing to get into holds to work and claw his way to an advantage. Offense vs Defense. That’s exactly what we see. Zack Savre Jr will bait Bryan throughout and although we get numerous parallel moments that add to the richness of the match, Zack often controls the tempo and either succeeds into getting Danielson to use his injured yet stronger arm or gets burned by vicious kicks. 

You know I loved the grappling exchange that lead to a series of struggling octopus stretch attempts. Their rolling around and pulling at limbs. Everything looks both fluid and earned. Moments like an arm submission pushing into an Indian death lock that is stopped by hacking the neck back which is fought out of all while Danielson is waving his injured hand to get it to cooperate. When Danielson finally gets the submission in tight, Zack simply sweeps Bryan’s injured arm to get him to lose position. Twice this happens. Chess. They need to roll to the next struggle which is Bryan yanking Sabre Jr’s head. Move by move, the moment one gets the upper hand, we see it switch when the other slightly takes a moment to cautiously take their foot off the gas. One wrong move, and they’re done. When they break away from each other, much to Nigel’s glee, Danielson is kneeling and Zack is standing.

Tantric Sexual Stuff.

Beautiful moment with parallel Romero Specials. First with Zack who gets Danielson in it with a nifty rolling leg takedown. Bryan reverses and spins him into his own Romero Special, only for Zack Sabre Jr to reverse it in the same manner. But instead of the same move Zack targets the now prone right arm. Danielson overcompensates which leads to a bow and arrow attempt but quick roll away counter. Danielson got out of it, but Sabre Jr is once again the only one standing. Now something is different. Zack is limping. Parallel to the break away before, but even with Danielson again on his knees, Zack has shown he’s hurt. Sinister smile by the American Dragon. Even while we get a great shot of momentary fear or acknowledgement from a cocky Zack Sabre Jr, Danielson is smirking while rolling his wrist and rubbing his hurt arm.

So far we have established fighting strategies, that they are mostly even through struggle, and both now have a weakness. 

Bryan stands. Zack Sabre Jr quickly shifts gears to a confident swagger as he circles towards Danielson. Zack knows he needs to go in with a new strategy. He goes towards the arm and is blocked, but manages to push Dragon against the ropes. Aubrey manages to separate the two and we get a classic European Uppercut cheap shot. Zack Sabre Jr throws the first strike. Which I absolutely love and feel is missed in what I’m currently reading about the match. Danielson is the known better striker, but Zack Sabre Jr has changed his game plan to try and goad Bryan to strike. Which will be his eventual downfall but also his excuse. Fantastic heel! The European Uppercut-off is dampened by Bryan using his left arm. Zack is getting a wallop but able to mock it and return another one. Back and forth until he manages to convince Dragon he needs to succeed by using his hurt arm. Danielson has a history of putting himself in harms way for a win, so this is one of the few times this comes off extremely believable. Dragon uses his right arm, gets a few great shots in and is blocked. Bryan goes down. Zack is smarter and was willing to take a few hard shots with the trap in mind. 

Bend and stomp on that arm!!! Zack bends some arms and some fingers. Zack Sabre Jr has full advantage. That fucking smug look on that fucker face when he’s bending Dragon and walking around the ring while Aubrey checks on Dragon. Even taking the little moments to put his foot on the arm before bending it again. After a vicious finger bending, Aubrey’s body motion is so sullen and just looks worrisome and disgusted. Mox mentions the trials and tribulations of Danielson and how he’s been through so much. Chef’s Kiss, that’s all beautiful. 

Zack Sabre Jr then mockingly kicks Dragon’s legs to toy with him. The kicks progressively get more and more brutal as Zack strikes the back. Once again, Sabre Jr has sent the first strikes of a match sequence. Parallel to before, but now with kicks. Zack Sabre Jr kicks the American Dragon until he stands. Zack sends an European Uppercut for good measure to send Danielson to the corner. Irish whip, signature flying back flip, reactive reversal to a single leg crab type move on the damaged leg. Zack is pained, but Dragon’s arm is too hurt to sink it in. Bryan thinking quickly attempts another Romero Special. Danielson is too hurt to pull him upwards. Double knee stomp instead. It is now Danielson that is standing and Zack on the ground holding his knees. Both men in pain. Sabre Jr wanting brief mercy but a raged Danielson is now the one kicking Zack. Parallel moment. The kicks to the leg leads to a series of Dragon Screws, one that will be iconically known for its icky viciousness. The third attempt is too choreographed and reversed by Zack Sabre Jr twisting Danielson’s neck with his feet and then drop kicking the back of his head. Both men are down.

This tale can be broken up by the moments where they break apart and either both are standing, one is standing, or neither is standing. Every breath taken between struggle is a new chapter we take with these two warriors ripping each other apart.

Zack panic run attack is dodged and we get a Tree of Woe strike segment. Nigel does a good job adding strategy by indicating Zack Sabre Jr is leaving his torso exposed to that will be targeted instead of his hurt leg. That game plan works at first but the kicks rise. The rope top tussle is riveting to me. So often it can come across awkward, but these two make this struggle work. Avalanche Butterfly Suplex! Danielson can’t lock in the LeBell Lock and Zack rolls into a triangle attempt but he’s too winded from the top rope slam and is quickly revered to another LeBell attempt. The struggle continues and now the goal is the same submission that Danielson beat Okada with. Nope, but a single leg on the injured leg. Sabre Jr is in pain but can reach the ropes.

Zack is on his back and Dragon is on his knees grabbing his arm, facing the other direction. They are more and more withered. The game has changed. Danielson cannot use his arm to submit Zack Sabre Jr. He can’t even transition to a leg based modification when he tapped out Okada with a broken arm! The American Dragon has to resort to Yes Kicks! Zack sees the head kick coming and has the presence of mind to duck, only to be met with a second kick immediately after. This is now a strike based match. Parallel to Zack Sabre Jr mocking Danielson’s with kicks while he was down, Bryan is using this moment to use his signature head stomps. Busaiku Knee attempt is reversed and chain pin attempt but both men are to exhausted to capitalize. 

Like all of us, Mox is now the one standing up. Signature running drop kick to the corner. A second one, again too choreographed and Zack trips him up with a pin attempt he’s used a few times already, now it is Zack that is too choreographed and we get a near Cattle Mutilation. Rolling reversals end in Zack Sabre Jr putting Danielson in the move Dragon used to put Okada away. Adding the icky finger bending. Danielson fights out and does a modified laying Dragon Screw. Zack wins out on the exchange and we have an odd bent figure four type hold that is ripping apart Danielson. Stare off. Dragon spits. Sabre slaps. Multiple slaps to the face of Bryan. Once again, the strike exchange has opened. Danielson grabs Zack Sabre Jr by the throat and throws a heavy slap. 

Sabre is down and dazed. Danielson is down and in shock. Interlocked kicking ensues. Danielson is the better striker and gets the better of this exchange. Zack uppercuts the hurt arm. Danielson kicks the hurt leg. Repeat segment. After a series of back and forth, Danielson evades the uppercut and attempts a backslide, but he can’t do it. Zack elbows multiple times. Fight for control, back to back. Elbow to elbow. Zack gets in the backslide! Kick out followed by Sabre Jr punting Danielson’s leg. Zack Sabre Jr performs maybe the second slam in the whole match. Zack puts Dragon in the hood that put down Okada. In the background we see Nigel shoot upwards excited wanting to see a tap. Danielson struggle to get out as now Mox shoots upwards to yell “FUCK THAT GUY” in encouragement! He gets the ropes. 

Zack stands and Dragon is on his knees. Again. Zack Sabre Jr gives Bryan Yes Kicks of his own. Even gets a shot at the arm too. Sabre goes for a running assault but is met with another kick to the head. More stomps!!!! Almost, Zack gets in an arm bar!!! Finger Bend!!!! Danielson rolls throw and performs a killer Regalplex!!! A dazed Zack Sabre Jr flops around and Danielson finishes him off with another Busaiku Knees!!! NOPE. One more for good measure as Seattle goes wild. 

 

Danielson wins. Zack Sabre Jr can claim he wasn’t submitted. Beautiful match. Great development of two evenly matched technicians that can’t submit the other and both resort to strikes throughout. I’m putting this very high on my favorites list already. Third watch. It’s not 1:30. I’m not spell checking. May Dolfan have mercy on my soul.

[The Natural]

My top five WrestleDream matches:

5. Claudio Castagnoli vs. Josh Barnett.

4. Eddie Kingston vs. Katsuyori Shibata.

3. Christian Cage vs. Darby Allin.

2. FTR vs. Aussie Open.

1. Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr. *****.

[Matt D]

Here's my Danielson/ZSJ take if anyone wants to see it.

http://segundacaida.blogspot.com/2023/10/aew-five-fingers-of-death-925-101-part-2.html

[Shartnado]

Damn! So much wrestling! Watched Rampage and Collision before starting on Zero Hour and eventually got to WrestleDream. Dozed off during Zero Hour and the main card at one point (I watched the main card in four parts).

This was pretty nuts! MJF is really over as a face and now his cheating is more "Eddie G-like" with all the "aw shucks"-gesturing. The Righteous were game, but were unfortunately made to look pretty dumb, despite the pin was due to cheating.

Kingston vs Shibata was stiff as fuck and very intense. Big win again for Eddie. That was nice.

The 4-way tag match was decent, Austin Gunn is getting huge. Fenix won't probably hold the International title for very long if that's how banged up he is. Bucks winning wasn't exactly a shock and I thought it would have foreshadowed the result of the tag title match exactly the other way that it ended up doing.

Statlander vs Julia Hart ended up being a hell of a fight. Big showcase for Julia. It was a bit awkward at times, but I enjoyed it!

Swerve vs Page was awesome. Huge win for Swerve finally!

Wheeler vs Starks was definitely good enough, but it was mostly there to actually give Starks a PPV win. Which is fine.

Goddamn, for fucking once a tehcnical wrestling match has the pace I want from technical wrestling match in Dragon vs ZSJ. Move, a counter, another counter, fast mat wrestling, not staying in one hold for long, sick submissions, targeting more than one body part for different strategies! Yes! This was a fucking blast! Nigel pointed out that Bryan won with a strike, not a wrestling move/hold. That was technically correct. I guess ZSJ was right not shaking Bryan's hand afterwards.

The tag team title match was fantastic, but I really thought Aussie Open would take it because Bucks won the conterder's match. And another FTR match would make no sense, unless they are taking the titles...fuck! So Nick will have 3 titles pretty soon, huh?

Main event was brutal. The first fall finish was awesome, actually so was the second one. Third one dragged a bit, but the betrayal was pretty well done! Nick's mom was freaking out! We needed more Adams, so here you go! Next time Roddy is yelling for one, it would be nice if someone other than Cole showed up, asked "What?!?" and told him to shut the hell up!

Great fucking show, obviously.

[Octopus]

One thing I’d like to add to my post earlier, I really enjoyed that Danielson was the first to taught. A reactive armdrag to lead to their first separation, Danielson is lower while Sabre stands, but it is Dragon that holds up the peace sign. Just like how Zack opens up the strike game that will be his eventual undoing, it is Bryan Danielson that is initially cocky which will backfire when Zack Sabre Jr mockingly kicks and teases an injured American Dragon.

Just beautiful stuff! 

[TheVileOne]

Overall a nice card, despite how kind of slap-dash and slapped together at the last minute a lot of it was. The best matches of the night were Danielson vs. Sabre and Hangman vs. Strickland. Hangman and Strickland certainly over-achieved, and I was glad to see fans really responding to Swerve and for him to pick up the upset. Swerve is definitely a huge start in the making if they play their cards right. 

Barnett and Claudio had a fun little kind of alternative exhibition-type match for showcasing a different type of style, despite that being another last-minute out of nowhere matchup as well.

I get why it was the main event, but I kind of hated Christian vs. Darby being the main event. I enjoyed the first half of the match, but I hated the second half. The referee is literally calling for Darby to be taken away on a stretcher, and he hasn't even called the match yet, and he's still allowing it to go forward. Nick Wayne turning on Darby when his mom is out there slapping Christian is ridiculous and makes no sense. There felt like no logic to Wayne siding with Christian on this one. The match totally lost me once they started ripping the ring canvas and mats off and exposing the wooden surface. I thought it was ridiculous when it happened in Joe vs. Darby, and it was equally ridiculous here. I get Christian doing underhanded things to pick up the win, but this isn't a No DQ match. Like why isn't the referee calling for the bell and just awarding the match to Christian if Darby can't continue? Why is the referee allowing Christian to destroy the ring and rip up the ring if this is No DQ? Surely that would call for a disqualification? Sort of defeated the purpose of this being 2-out-of-3 falls. 

Ending the show on this note just so they could have Edge debut left a bad taste in my mouth. Should've been Sabre vs. Danielson. 

Call me cynical, but it's hard to get excited about Edge in AEW right now. All the things he said are a lot of the same things CM Punk said after he came in. And yeah, I don't think things with Edge will go the same as with Punk. But let's also not ignore that Edge is 49 years old. He was already forced into retirement once because he had spinal stenosis. He can't really wrestle on a full-time schedule. Bringing Jeff Hardy into AEW has hardly been a money move. I think Edge can do good and have some good matches, but he's not the long-term future of your company. 

I just don't get the importance of signing these guys who aren't needle-movers, especially at the expense of the rest of your roster when so few guys are getting showcased already. Not to mention guys will just disappear for weeks or months on end without notice.

Tony Khan loves these big debuts and bringing in these guys who were hot in WWE at one time or another, and then they fade out quickly and he loses interest in them until he can get another one like that. 

[AxB]

Rewatched Eddie Kingston vs Shibata. Shibata doing the Kawada leg stretch to prepare for the step kicks, and Eddie immediately firing up because of it, that was a nice tough. And Eddie having to use 3 rope breaks, and hit the Uraken (a closed fist to the face) multiple times, really protected Shibata as Pure Champion. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

No logic to it? Darby forgave AR Fox instantly for breaking into Nick's home and slicing him up with glass. Didn't even need an apology. Darby just became bffs with Fox again with no resistance. That turn was super logical. Because I'd be like fuck that guy too.

 

The mom doesn't have to turn just because Nick Wayne did. If anything it can underscore how much of a dick he is because his mom is begging him not to go against his father's wishes.

[Curt McGirt]

Catching up to the show

- Barnett/Claudio and King/Shibata were good enough for your Inoki-influenced matches. I think the former could've been stronger but King/Shibata was better than King/Claudio. The final powerbomb was FINAL and Shibata throwing in the Kawada mocking and the STO was nice (with Taz explaining it but not calling it an STO, haha). Forgot how chill Shibata's music is for such an explosive wrestler. Not really sure what to say about the Barnett match and why it disappointed, maybe I just wanted something that felt... bigger? But it was a pre-show match, after all; they'll probably have a barn-burner at the next Bloodsport. It did have an interesting finish with that block of the Neutralizer to finish with a rollup that keeps there from being either a sub or KO and Josh was good on the mic. Mox was geeked as fuck the whole time, almost embarrassing. 

If you think I watched the Two-Man Army (that's almost too good of a name for them and has probably been used before) as well as MJF talk you don't know me very well. 

Stat/Julia was good too. I like Julia's wily kinda style, more about avoidance and reversals than forward advance. Plus she snuck in an octopus hold too! Stat getting in place for that moonsault was painfully obvious but what can you do. 

More in a bit

 

[TheVileOne]

2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

No logic to it? Darby forgave AR Fox instantly for breaking into Nick's home and slicing him up with glass. Didn't even need an apology. Darby just became bffs with Fox again with no resistance. That turn was super logical. Because I'd be like fuck that guy too.

 

The mom doesn't have to turn just because Nick Wayne did. If anything it can underscore how much of a dick he is because his mom is begging him not to go against his father's wishes.

Then teaming up with Christian who disrespected your own mother is like biting your nose off to spite your face.

[Curt McGirt]

If Mom got involved with Christian instead it would be REALLY sleazy. 

...I approve 

[zendragon]

Christain turning Nick Wayne against Darby then getting with Nick Wayne's mom would be a fun update on the ECW angle where Raven got with peaches and then brainwashed Sandman's kid

[Curt McGirt]

Mom: "Why am I with Christian now? Because Nick's father is dead." 

  

[The Natural]

17 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

If Mom got involved with Christian instead it would be REALLY sleazy. 

...I approve 

Settle down, HollyCurt McGirtettico.

.

[Curt McGirt]

Skipped the tag.

"I don't have the hips that Nana has, but I can move my elbows - Tony  Oooo, they ain't likin Hangman much here. Power-guy-who-flies and tall-Lucha-esque-weirdo is gonna be an odd match however you slice it, but it works? Kinda? They went a few beats too long but there was some interesting stuff -- the biting of the hand, the armwork with the seriously nasty arm-break spot, the Dead Eye on the stairs which honestly probably shouldn't have been done at all. At the same time they didn't end with a sub or strike on the arm when the stomp was right there as a finish to use and instead went with Nana interference, crown shot, two absurd kicks and that convoluted headdrop dealio? Okay. Overstuffed. Not the direction it should have went. Swerve's a great heel, he doesn't need to have a dirty win in Seattle. But I was there with it for a minute.

Ricky/Yuter was definitely "my" match. I think somebody was complaining with this match about "you know who's winning" and we get a lot of that in AEW these days, (unfortunately, unlike earlier years), but I didn't care in this one. Even Moxley basically calling Wheeler a jobber didn't bother me. I wanted to see these two wrestle because I knew they'd have a good, logical, stiff-enough, well-crafted match and they did. It didn't have to have a big finish or anything, their styles melded well to where they both had a nice dance and you wanted to see it pulled off. Mox thankfully wasn't egregious like last night's match and kinda blocked JR a bit. 

...aaaaaaaand I'm stopping again before the big one. 

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

On 10/3/2023 at 4:21 AM, NoFistsJustFlips said:

It's been 24 hours and the video has 20 million views across all platforms. He's already getting more eyes on AEW than anyone not named CM Punk ever has. He's a 20 year main eventer who has never left the WWE eco-system. I didn't like a lot of his latest WWE run ether. But there are so many fresh & interesting matches for him in AEW. Christian is just as old and he's consistently the most entertaining personality in the company. Sting is like 62 and he too is also one of the most entertaining parts of the shows he's on.

All these "tHiS iS jUsT lIkE TnA" takes are wild. Again this is a 1B signing. He's one tier under the Cena/Lesnar/Reigns level. He's in that Orton/Triple H/Mick Foley level. 20 years of main events. How many WrestleMania main events? How many world title runs? He adds a ton of value. Especially to the segment that find AEW to be second rate because they grew up only knowing WWE. At least SOME of them will check out AEW once or twice because of him. And the hope would be that you convert a percentage of them to full time watchers.

I totally get if you don't enjoy him and don't want him to be on the shows because you don't like them. But to contort that opinion into a fact / shit talking in the name of that "fact" is what I find so frustrating about your post. Tony took a business risk. Not because he's a star fucker or a mark. But because he's trying to find ways to grow the audience. If that doesn't line up with your personal tastes that doesn't make it a bad business move. It just makes a move you don't like. Those are not the same things.

 

In some ways this post did not age well. Yeah referencing some 18-month tag-team run from over 20 years ago in the competition, using Christian's shoot name etc is kinda TNA.

Edge is not Orton; Orton was over to put it bluntly. To put it another way, Orton was a guy who had several years on top on the A show and had numerous A-programmes in the company. Edge mostly leeched heat off valets (Lita, Vickie) who were actually more over, and primarily on the B-show. Ok, that's kind of harsh but the comparison is ridiculous. Don't get me started on HHH or Foley. He's not a 1B guy. Jericho and Punk both had a certain amount of cachet that transcended wrestling, Orton less so but he at least was sort of internet over for the RKO Vines. Edge has precisely zero of that. Copeland's a 2A guy.

Just because I don't like something doesn't make it a bad business move, but it doesn't make it a good one either. Now personally, I don't have an issue with Edge coming in per se, but I understand the difference between tactics and strategy and sacrificing the latter for the former is generally considered bad for business. Promising a 'new-era' and tying it to some 49-year-old WWE has-been who was never quite as over as people like to pretend is not good strategy.

Yeah it's great that Wrestledream was sort of built on Danielson vs ZSJ, but the 'main-event segment' of the next Dynamite was the two old WWE guys. From a personal watching pov, I'll take the good stuff and be grateful for it - I maintain a lot of goodwill regards AEW, and it will take more than this to shake that. But on a meta-level I do think it's a bit shit.

Btw I can also like something and still think it's bad presentation - I think Toni Storm's sloppy makeup and her outfit looked very low-rent for example; I like the gimmick for the most part, but I don't think it's what I would highlight if I had just tried to pop a rating on a social media clip in order to put new eyeballs on the product. I would say that about much of the show tbh. So I'm not even sure it's tactically that strong (I won't go too hard on the ratings because reasons, but it's not like you can really say Edge popped a rating). Strategically....well it's complex...again you might in practical terms want a guy like Copeland to cover the gap created by Punk for the moneymen but at some stage you diminish yourself as a challenger brand, and I do feel there have been a number of missteps that have potentially contributed towards that - this being the latest. I honestly think Tony is going to have to made some hard decisions over the next year, and I hope he's going to be able to do it. If not, well I'll enjoy a lot of good matches here and there I'm sure.


 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by StretchMediatedHypertrophy

[Curt McGirt]

MOVING ALONG...

I really don't have much to say otherwise. Dragon/ZSJ was as good as anyone's said it is. They've got a longer match that ends with a submission in it though. I skipped both tags due to lack of interest (yeah, again). Christian/Darby was as good a spectacle as Dragon/ZSJ was a straight wrestling match. They both hit two different sweet spots very very well. The final Darby bump on the stairs was close to the most disgusting thing I've ever seen on a wrestling show, up there with whoever getting their bones broken or set on fire or sliced near to death. So nasty.

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

45 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

MOVING ALONG...

I may have completely misunderstood the context, but from this I at least originally inferred that my response may come across as a little forceful. I don't really keep score of these things, but pretty sure I agree @NoFistsJustFlips more often than I disagree and definitely am not seeking any beef here! 
 

Edited October 7, 2023 by StretchMediatedHypertrophy

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I disagree with your thoughts on this one, but respect that you took the time to back up your thoughts with a well written post. So no beefs lol. I'll say this, the crazy amount of views on his debut video did not equate to higher viewership this week. I feel like this coming week his debut match is also going to get trounced by NXT. I know WWE are loading up NXT with big names, but there's been building momentum with NXT viewership for awhile now. I'm 50/50 on if Dynamite would have even been able to beat them with just a regular NXT episode.

I think everyone that posts in this part of the forum regularly just wants AEW to be doing well. We all have different ideas on what would help make that happen. So does TK. And I can't fault taking a swing with the biggest name he could get to jump. There's no one above Edge on the verge of wanting to switch sides right now. So I don't have much of a problem with it. Maybe as the stories get told with Edge the viewership can grow. Only time will ell.