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February 2023 AEW Discussion

The Natural

By The Natural
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING

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HarryArchieGus

HarryArchieGus

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

It's certainly possible, but I think having ROH be streaming-only is actually kind of good for AEW in that it doesn't dilute the main brand as much for the average viewer. It's there for the hardcores who want it, its not a huge extra cost to run at Universal since they were doing Dark there anyway. And if you stumble on something great and you can start filling buildings in like an NXT Takeover kind of fashion, great - if not, fuck it, keep running it til you recoup the cost of the library, and move on with your life 

I'm completely with you on the platform advantages. In particular, I love the idea of a roster of hungry talented young guns. I'm less excited about Universal as the venue, but we'll see. I don't love the current Dark set-up for putting on catch-as-catch-can-classics, but we'll see. I was really hoping for the shows to happen in similar size settings, but in Philly or New York, but I get the reasoning for the choice. I'm not sure if others feel the same, but I actually have pretty high hopes/expectations for this. Coach Tony clearly has a lot of respect for what ROH has thus far meant, and judging from his 4 year work with AEDub I think he'll do what's needed for this to flourish. 

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Belgian_Waffle

Belgian_Waffle

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Posted (edited)
On 2/16/2023 at 7:28 PM, TheVileOne said:

AEW was clearly building to Punk vs. MJF for the title as their big program. That all got flushed away, and they made it MJF vs. Moxley, and that worked for a while. But they pulled the trigger on MJF and now what? 

This to me is the big nagging issue at the moment. I love Danielson just like everyone else does but he's too old to be a guy you build around and he hasn't been protected enough to be a "special attraction" in a singles match so I don't really see any upside to having him main event a ppv at this point, especially when Ricky Starks was so hot coming off his big promo and match with MJF at Winter is Coming. Why not just have kept the feud cooking and run MJF vs Starks again at Revolution? The fact that Starks already lost once would just create less certainty that he's losing again, as opposed to Danielson who everyone knows is losing.

Again, I love Danielson and am all for a title program with him and MJF, but not at a ppv. MJF's ppv challengers should all be future pillar-type guys like Starks, Darby, Wardlow, Garcia, Jungle Boy (who I really am not feeling since JE broke up but who deserves a chance), etc. Guys like Hook and Wheeler and Hobbes and Bowens as a single could be at that level soon enough too. They've created all these new guys and about a year ago it felt like at any minute any or all of them could blow up (Sammy even kind of got halfway there before the crowd turned on him and he was booked poorly as a heel). The way they've held back on really pulling the trigger on the next generation of guys at the top level has me worried that nobody is main eventing a ppv with MJF in the next year other than Danielson, Moxley, Hangman, Jericho, Cole, Claudio, or Omega. 

Edited by Belgian_Waffle
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Matt D

Matt D

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I think we're pretty much all in agreement that the Catty Females (tm Kevin Dunn/Vince)/NWO/Beautiful People direction on top of the women's division is problematic. Part of the problem is Toni's portrayal and that they didn't find the logical hook of resentment towards Hayter for getting over when she was carrying the division. Part of it is having Saraya (and there are plenty of aspects there). Some of it is Shida dropping out of things without meaningful payoff. Some of it is that it felt like they were leading to a big moment that never came back in January.

In general though, I think it's just too small and too slow. I understand that the NWO had a slow burn to start, but given the pace of AEW's shows and of the way people consume wrestling in 2023, I don't think it can afford it. Part of what made AEW so exciting in 2021-2 was that new people were showing up a few times a month due to WWE's releases. Obviously this led to a problem where the roster got a little bloated, but in the moment it was very exciting and gave people a reason to tune in. People should really be picking sides every week as part of this story to help simulate that.

I think Rayne should turn on Skye Blue on Wednesday. She's a more natural heel and has experience in a group like this, plus you could lean into the "coach" thing as her wanting to toughen up/show up the AEW girls. After that, it gets a little tricky because you want to keep the most logical woman to join far away from them, but I'd maybe do the one-two punch of having Deeb join and then having Nyla tease that she was going to be the great equalizer for the AEW side and then turn full heel to be their heater. I'm assuming here that you can't get either Mandy or Mercedes, by the way, as Mandy would be almost perfect for the Freelancers. So the ideal choice I'd want to not align would be Athena. They should keep running with Ruby as chaotic good but not wanting to align with Britt and Athena as chaotic evil and not wanting to align with Saraya.

Anyway, you end up with Saraya/Toni/Deeb/Rayne/Nyla on one side and Britt/Hayter/Shida/Willow/Skye on the other with Ruby as Sting and Athena as Savage as wild cards so it becomes sort of Dangerous Alliance vs Sting's Squadron feud leading to Blood and Guts. Then to put it over the top, you have Skye taken out and Jade joining the babyfaces in a huge moment and you're off to the races.

Obviously that's not the only way to do this, but they have to do something and I think going in that direction would 1) solve the need to have some more surprises/intrigue each week, 2) create a lot of matches, 3) salvage some of the current characterization issues, and 4) build to both an iconic moment and an iconic match.

More speed, bigger scope.

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Belgian_Waffle

Belgian_Waffle

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Something I've been meaning to ask here just to see what everyone's general read is: do we think Toni Storm actively dislikes her new role  or is she just not charismatic at all (or both)? 

I really like Matt D's above proposed scenario, especially the idea of getting Cargill involved as a way of finally creating some wormholes between her reign and the Hayter/Baker storylines.

I will also say that AEW has one huge (I think much huger than they realize) ace up their sleeve in that when Statlander is finally healthy she *needs* to either end Cargill's reign immediately of become the deciding factor on Team AEW vs Saraya/Storm immediately. If she comes back, as over as she was and talented as she is, and isn't treated as being super-special/new women's ace then she'll just become another version of Wardlow and the division won't have another big surprise feel-good return they can bust out. Thunder Rosa can come back and get a pop but I really can't imagine the fans not turning on her if she goes against Hayter. 

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Casey

Casey

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I've got no desire to see Kris Statlander win the TBS title. She's fucking good, she should be mixing it up for the top women's title, not the midcard one.

Would I complain if she returned and beat Jade for that title? No. Do I think it should happen? Also, no.

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HarryArchieGus

HarryArchieGus

Posted
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18 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

They should get weird and put the ring in the middle of the park, like when WCW did the Marquis of Queensbury Finals outdoors at Disney-MGM on one of the city backlots:

 

Absolutely! That's how you take ROH to the next step at a similar size audience. I wish Titan Sports didn't own the name 'Worldwide'. It'd be a nice mash of multiple generations, and perfectly fitting a new Ring of Honor product.

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Belgian_Waffle

Belgian_Waffle

Posted
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1 hour ago, Casey said:

I've got no desire to see Kris Statlander win the TBS title. She's fucking good, she should be mixing it up for the top women's title, not the midcard one.

Would I complain if she returned and beat Jade for that title? No. Do I think it should happen? Also, no.

I think her winning it would destigmatize the belt is the thing tho. But that would also necessitate her feuding with, say, Baker and Soho for the TBS belt instead of the Baddies.

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Dog

Dog

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Tony Khan's Twitter privileges need to be revoked at this point. 

This is the most ridiculous take in recent board history. Tony has made plenty of cringe tweets, but this isn't one of them.

1) He's clearly half-joking.

2) After that bullshit Helwani pulled complaining about the TK interview, while hoping we ignore that he lobs softballs at HHH and we forget he was repped by Nick Khan, Helwani deserved to be called out.

Edited by Dog
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TheVileOne

TheVileOne

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Dog said:

This is the most ridiculous take in recent board history. Tony has made plenty of cringe tweets, but this isn't one of them.

1) He's clearly half-joking.

2) After that bullshit Helwani pulled complaining about the TK interview, while hoping we ignore that he lobs softballs at HHH and we forget he was repped by Nick Khan, Helwani deserved to be called out.

1. I thought it was cringe.

2. But why? Calling him out like that just shows that it angers Tony Khan and gets to him. Even if Helwani did those things, it really means nothing at the end of the day. It's such a petty thing to get upset about. Bob Costas wasn't called out for doing promos for WrestleMania 19.

Edited by TheVileOne
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A_K

A_K

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Posted (edited)

Wasn’t a joke. Ariel’s ⛄️ riposte was excellent. Deservedly being posted on all of Khan’s subsequent tweets now. What a chump. Getting wound up then served by the geeky UFC guy who Dana would walk all over. He’d be best served reflecting on why he’s racking 800k viewerships with dying live gates without a single compelling storyline top to bottom in the company (as the fetishists even recognise) while WWE go from strength to strength in every respect.

Edited by A_K
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Cobra Commander

Cobra Commander

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Posted

I just had a dream that cumulated in the surprise AEW debut of Sabu (turns out that one of the masked dudes in some segment was actually Sabu), so if Sabu emerges suddenly in 2023, blame my dreams for it happening. I don’t really remember any of the other people in the segment though.

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Belgian_Waffle

Belgian_Waffle

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3 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

I just had a dream that cumulated in the surprise AEW debut of Sabu (turns out that one of the masked dudes in some segment was actually Sabu), so if Sabu emerges suddenly in 2023, blame my dreams for it happening. I don’t really remember any of the other people in the segment though.

That's super weird, I had a dream last night about Sabu too!! I think he has signed to New Japan (maybe NJ Strong?) in my dream though. I almost want to derail this thread now into a petition to get Sabu into the WON hall of fame. 

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Dolphman 3000

Dolphman 3000

Posted
Posted
41 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

I really don't pay much attention to the WON HOF but I'm surprised that Sabu didn't get voted in like 25 years ago in the window between Dave picking the first class and Sabu leaving ECW.

"innovated moves but didn't draw" typically doesn't end well for candidates

In an alternate reality where RVD and Sabu don't get pulled over for weed in 2006, Sabu keeps feuding with Cena, and RVD holds onto the WWE championship longer...they both might have had a shot

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odessasteps

odessasteps

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

oh man.. Sabu wasn't 35 until almost the end of 1999.

But yeah, Sabu showing up on Raw to legdrop Cena through a table was a really cool moment.

I'm sure his body age was probably closer to the 50 something in the late 90s. 🙂

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