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2023 Puroresu General Discussion


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2 minutes ago, Thomas Bugg said:

What's that belt that Sugiura is running around with?

His custom gimmick belt. It cannot be up for grabs

He had his Own NWA World's style belt for awhile before.

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I watched Sanada in AJPW and Wrestle 1, he was supposed to be the ace of AJPW. His rival Kai ended up as the Ace of the defunct second W-1, even if he was booked wonky.

Sanada was trained by Kaz Hayashi, Satoshi Kojima, Suwama, Osamu Nishimura, Taiyo Kea, Keiji Muto and Tatsumi Fujinami.

Fujinami gave Sanada some of his moves and the "Dragon killing method". Sanada attacks on the back is part of that method. His Dragon Sleeper is supposedly about working on the back, with curves or applying his legs on your torso.

Kea gave him one of the TKO's. 

Sanada's Tiger Suplex is done the same way as the first Tiger Mask's.

Sanada likes to use classical and orthodox techniques. He inherited Muga/selflessness from Osamu, but in a modern way.

 

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Today's WON:

Quote

In what looks to be a very interesting thing for both fans and wrestlers to study from, an All Japan Women video channel is being launched. I went to the site and it looks like 4/2 is the start date. All Japan women ran from 1968 to 2005, and from the early 80s until its close had some of the greatest pro wrestling in the world and in the early 90s had the greatest crew of women wrestlers of any promotion in history in the era of people like Manami Toyota, Aja Kong, Kyoko Inoue, Akira Hokuto Bull Nakano, who were some of the greatest women wrestlers in history. It also had some huge mainstream peaks in the 70s behind the Beauty Pair and 80s behind the Crush Gals(.)

Yes. F'n. Please.

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Fun-looking card, with the rarely seen attraction of a full-force GOA and Evolution. Think Ishida is GLEAT champ, so he’ll probably eat kickboy Inoue alive. The six man will suck due to Voodoo Murders shenanigans and the Saitos’ overall crumminess, but it’s nice to see Kento tag with Shuji.

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From Tokyo Sports

Seems Sanada's new finisher name is deadfall. The move is a contradiction of the Muga style, dropping people on the head isn't selflessness, but Sanada is changing.

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A general historical question for this Friday afternoon...

Underrated/unsung gaijin who worked Japan for years but never get celebrated the way, say, a Hansen or a Vader do. Who comes to mind for everyone? 

I have a couple personal favs from AJPW that are not likely to be first on anyone else's mind so I'll throw them out there. 

George Hines: he was solid as the Eagle teaming with the Patriot but he really came into his own after the Noah split. Vader went with Misawa, Ace went to WWF, so Hines gave himself the somewhat thankless job of working super hard every night in spite of never really getting much of a push in order to help hold the midcard together. In hindsight I always wished they had done more with him and Shawn Hernandez as a team, as opposed to Doc & Rotundo (much as I love those guys)...they added some fresh faces to the roster during that tough period but were still very much in that classic King's Road mold of American heels. 

Giant Kimala II: Honestly, this dude was way more athletic and had better stamina than a lot of guys his size. I guess his most high profile thing was teaming with Izumida as a comedy team in the 1996 RWTL but he could go pretty hard when the opportunity arose. There's a tag match probably still floating out there somewhere on YouTube or Dailymotion where Kea and Kimala II take on Hines and Wolf Hawkfield and all four guys are definitely out there trying to show there's still a viable AJPW undercard in the post-Noah world...worth seeking out as a showcase for both the guys Ive listed here. 

Anybody else have darkhorse favorites?

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Scorpio. I know he held the tag titles a couple of times in NOAH and briefly held that hardcore title thing they had but it never really felt like he was made to be a credible threat in the singles division.

NWO Sting/Super J. He was a solid enough worker to last 6 years in New Japan but never even got a run with the tag titles (especially during the Team 2000 stuff - seems like he and Chono would have been decent tag champs).

Johnny Smith. He was in All Japan for, what like 15 years? And he only held the All Asia tag belts a couple times. I think maybe he held the tag titles once too. But he never really seemed like he was an "important" gaijin compared to the treatment that guys like Mike Barton, The Patriot and Johnny Ace got around the same time.

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This question prompted me to refresh my memory about D-lo and Buchanan’s completely forgettable and almost decade-long run in Japan.
 

Did y’all know they were Noah tag champs? Cuz I must have memory-holed that.  

Edited by Control
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17 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

NWO Sting/Super J. He was a solid enough worker to last 6 years in New Japan but never even got a run with the tag titles (especially during the Team 2000 stuff - seems like he and Chono would have been decent tag champs).

 

Since Mutoh is now retired we need Jeff Farmer to face Sting in his retirement match.

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19 hours ago, Red King said:

Taiyō Kea perhaps. 

Maybe I'm misremembering but it always seemed like Kea was *this* close to becoming a full fledged main event level player in All Japan but they just never pulled the trigger.

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2 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

Maybe I'm misremembering but it always seemed like Kea was *this* close to becoming a full fledged main event level player in All Japan but they just never pulled the trigger.

He won the CC twice and held the TC for a couple of months the first time he won the CC in 06.

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On 4/1/2023 at 5:14 AM, Belgian_Waffle said:

A general historical question for this Friday afternoon...

Underrated/unsung gaijin who worked Japan for years but never get celebrated the way, say, a Hansen or a Vader do. Who comes to mind for everyone? 

I am not sure if he qualifies based on achievements, but one of my answers for this would be Scott Norton. On paper, his achievements probably disqualify him as a choice, but at the same time I kind of feel like they also qualify him as an answer as he isn't spoken of on the same level as heavyweights of that era like Hansen, Vader, Gordy & Williams, and he's definitely not spoken of with the same revere as the modern gaijin like Omega or Ospreay. He's even well overshadowed by NJPWs junior gaijin of the era too (Guerrero, Benoit etc.). Maybe it is because of the lack of epic, famous matches, but I always enjoyed Norton and thought he was solid & consistent in his role. Trying to think of my favourite Norton match...maybe vs. Muto in the 95 G1, or the Nagata title win. I just can't decide if he's underrated due to his success. 

 

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4 hours ago, Eivion said:

He won the CC twice and held the TC for a couple of months the first time he won the CC in 06.

Huh. I don't remember any of that. Guess I was wrong.

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Kenoh and Kondo won the Twin Gate belts, marking the first time someone from outside of DG has ever won them. It's also Kondo's first ever title in DG.

Kenoh is now a tag champ of two different promotions with two different partners.

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On 4/5/2023 at 4:38 AM, Horangi said:

I am not sure if he qualifies based on achievements, but one of my answers for this would be Scott Norton. On paper, his achievements probably disqualify him as a choice, but at the same time I kind of feel like they also qualify him as an answer as he isn't spoken of on the same level as heavyweights of that era like Hansen, Vader, Gordy & Williams, and he's definitely not spoken of with the same revere as the modern gaijin like Omega or Ospreay. He's even well overshadowed by NJPWs junior gaijin of the era too (Guerrero, Benoit etc.). Maybe it is because of the lack of epic, famous matches, but I always enjoyed Norton and thought he was solid & consistent in his role. Trying to think of my favourite Norton match...maybe vs. Muto in the 95 G1, or the Nagata title win. I just can't decide if he's underrated due to his success. 

 

My second-ever pro-wrestling match I watched was Brad Armstrong and TNT (Savio Vega) VS the Jurassic Powers (Scott Norton and Hercules) in NJPW. One of the thing that stands out was Norton (I think) messing up a top rope splash. He jumped, hit the ground with his feet, which then caused him to stumble and fall forwards onto Armstrong with what ironically looked like more impact than if he had done a regular splash.

After that, Scott Norton became a regular on that weird NJPW show that was aired here. Lots of tag team matches where he was paired up with random team mates you'd never see again afterwards and who invariably were the ones who took the loss, but also some singles matches like the one against Mutoh that started with Mutoh flying out of the ring and onto Norton during his entrance. The look that he had was so intimidating. His chest was something else, but in those matches he also had a mullet and a beard. He looked nothing like he'd later look in WCW. That look, though... It was just so damn intimidating and captivating. I don't even remember other specific matches of his, but I always watched them and he was one of my favourites. Back then I didn't get why he never became a champion in WCW. He was just The Man to me.

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