stro Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Is this correct from f4W Neville defeated Kevin Owens © in a nontitle match. (:21) Did they seriously have 3 hours of tv time on a wrestling show and take two guys who know how to wrestle and then give them less than 30 seconds? Yes Man....I'm glad I stopped watching a decade ago or else I would have broken my tv watching that. Again, it was an angle, not a match. One that went two segments long, and then led to a third segment later in the show. Which did a lot more for character work than a 10 minute meaningless match that they've had 3-5 times on TV already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 You look up results for a show you haven't watched in a decade? As many of the professionals who have escaped working for the WWE have mentioned, the environment is utterly unique. I am not a fan of WWE any more, but I am fascinated by all the strange aspects of it as a business and product. What other show has done what the WWE has done? How many other programs have treated talent and fans so poorly and yet remained in business for so long? All that type of stuff is so interesting to me. I try and keep a breast of the comings and goings of the show by reading results in 10 or so minutes...and after doing such I am at an utter loss as to who in their right minds could actually keep watching it. It sounds dreadful. Yet millions do. It makes it all that much more interesting. I made a mistakes, it's been 13 years since I watched Raw now that I really think about it. Treat the fans so poorly by...hiring indie dudes and giving them a weekly platform to perform on a stage that more people see in a week than years of work before that? And pay them well? Man, those dickheads at WWE giving Daniel Bryan the title at WM30. Those JERKS. What kind of weird entitlement do you have to have to think WWE is personally spiting you by not giving you exactly what you want all the time? On a show you don't even watch for 10-13 years? KO and Neville have had a few TV matches in the last month or two. They didn't need to have another. Instead, they had an angle that makes their next match actually mean something, as well as progressing the KO/Ambrose story. It's a strange reaction to have to a show you don't even watch, and had you watched, it would have made a lot more sense. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Soap operas have spells of booking popular actors poorly and they managed to stay on the air for a while. There are even smark equivalent boards for soaps where they talk about their favorites being buried, how the old booking was better, which head writers were the best, what actors they'd like to see work together, and even bash people who seem to be getting pushes for reasons other than talent. It's a weird parallel to wrestling fandom. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTTW Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I can't recall any other show where the owner came out and apologized for treating the fans like idiots - and then went on to do a necrophilia bit. Maybe it would have made sense in context but you know what, I'm not interested enough to watch 3 hours of tv for maybe 15 good minutes when there are more interesting things going on. It's entitlement to ask that they actually pay off their own storylines and have them make sense? To have wrestler have wrestling matches on a wrestling show? To not have constant shilling by announcers while trying to watch the show? I'm not special man, but me and millions of others have stopped watching. What gives? Are we all just "entitled"? At least with soap operas, last I knew, there were emotional pay offs to storylines and they knew in advance where the show was going. It's really not that strange since even the WWE was trying to hire people from that world to work on their product. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJ Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 The entitled argument is a poor one because even if we are a niche group of a much larger fanbase, not much is sticking. It's one thing to ignore your diehards to please the masses. WWE has a way of pleasing no one. Lucky for us, a parallel universe does exist. It's called nxt. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 If WWE's product hadn't already alienated me, its nutjob fans shouting down all dissent have done the trick. Well done. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I can't recall any other show where the owner came out and apologized for treating the fans like idiots - and then went on to do a necrophilia bit. Maybe it would have made sense in context but you know what, I'm not interested enough to watch 3 hours of tv for maybe 15 good minutes when there are more interesting things going on. It's entitlement to ask that they actually pay off their own storylines and have them make sense? To have wrestler have wrestling matches on a wrestling show? To not have constant shilling by announcers while trying to watch the show? I'm not special man, but me and millions of others have stopped watching. What gives? Are we all just "entitled"? At least with soap operas, last I knew, there were emotional pay offs to storylines and they knew in advance where the show was going. It's really not that strange since even the WWE was trying to hire people from that world to work on their product. I don't really disagree with anything you're saying, but do you really think you have the knowledge to comment on the results of RAW when you, by your own admission, haven't watched in 13 years? You have no idea what's actually going on. Reading results isn't the same thing as watching the show. Reading DVDVR reactions isn't the same thing as watching the show. Shouldn't you watch the show if you're going to bemoan how terrible it is? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 What's the balance between "don't like it, don't watch" and "how can you criticize a show you don't watch?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 What's the balance between "don't like it, don't watch" and "how can you criticize a show you don't watch?" About 13 years. That someone would not watch for 13 years, but still follow and get annoyed is pretty fucking weird. It's entitlement to ask that they actually pay off their own storylines and have them make sense? To have wrestler have wrestling matches on a wrestling show? To not have constant shilling by announcers while trying to watch the show? It is entitlement if you haven't even watched for 13 years and still expect them to do what you want to see. When you get to the "I don't watch and don't want to watch, but I do want to complain" point, you need to find something new to do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Anybody's free to do whatever they want. You can criticize a show you don't watch if that's what you want to do. I understand the sentiment, especially in wrestling, that you're hanging on around the periphery hoping that it gets better/lines up more with your personal tastes/whatever. But you gotta know if you drop "I haven't watched in a decade" that people are gonna give you the side eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I had plans last night and recorded Raw. I'm honestly in zero hurry to watch it and tend to skip over most of the promo segments these days. I accept that I'm a lost cause and will probably never totally quit watching it, so I've just resigned myself to avoiding conversation about wrestling since most wrestling fans are just assholes these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 It's really easy to just not watch. No one should be forcing themselves to watch a show they don't want to watch. Raw is literally written for people to watch once a month and be all caught up on everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORELOCK Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I'm not trying to shout anyone down or say anyone shouldn't be able to post about something, I just wonder how seriously anyone should take comments about the current state of RAW when they're coming from someone who hasn't watched since a still-active Steve Austin was feuding with Eric Bischoff and his lackey Chief Morely. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 There's about as much point to having a discussion with WWE fans as there is to having a discussion with political wingnuts. No one is going to change anyone's minds, so it's a waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Is there anyone here who thinks that the current state of WWE is good? The discussion centers on someone who hasn't watched WWE since Torrie Wilson and Dawn Marie were making out in their underwear passing judgment on an angle that is building to something. No one is saying that the current state is remotely good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stro Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Is there anyone here who thinks that the current state of WWE is good? The discussion centers on someone who hasn't watched WWE since Torrie Wilson and Dawn Marie were making out in their underwear passing judgment on an angle that is building to something. No one is saying that the current state is remotely good. I think it is fine and mostly enjoyable when I do watch, which is 1-2 Raws a month and the PPVs. Ring wise, TV quality has never been higher, and there are a lot of really fun guys to watch. It's not even the worst it has been this decade. The biggest issue is 3 hours, not content. 3 hours is too long for any tv show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick B. Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 One of the most frustrating things is the fact that there IS all of this really good wresting, but with little reason to care about the outcomes. Oh well, so be it. It's a business and the numbers/dollars are the only things that matter, not one fan's enjoyment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nature Boy Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I care about strong storytelling that leads to good wrestling. I am not a fan of good wrestling if I have no reason to care about the outcome. That is my main problem with current WWE, I have little reason to care about any of these people. Good wrestling for the sake of good wrestling does nothing for me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramsey Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 If there's one thing I have never gotten tired of in my years of being active on these boards and just lurking is the "board policeman" trope. You know the one I mean. The poster who loves to slap down anyone with an opinion and does it with enough edge to give off an "edgy" vibe. That thing I just said above is a lie. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SorceressKnight Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 Is there anyone here who thinks that the current state of WWE is good? The discussion centers on someone who hasn't watched WWE since Torrie Wilson and Dawn Marie were making out in their underwear passing judgment on an angle that is building to something. No one is saying that the current state is remotely good. The last few weeks- at least since the go-home show to TLC, have been improving. It's still not GOOD yet, but things look like they are starting to get better and they may, indeed, be good in 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxB Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I am not a fan of good wrestling. I am a fan of selectively editing quotes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cristobal Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 I am not a fan of good wrestling. I am a fan of seductively eating goats. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 You boys are trying to get this sucker locked down again, I see. I was being partly sarcastic, but some people do believe that last night was the start of a "Kevin Owens is a maniac" push that will lead to Brock/KO at WM. Not me. However, others do have hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTTW Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 You know what I haven't heard much in 13 years reading about Raw; "that was a good/great/entertaining show." It has been nothing but a constant stream of there was this one good segment, and then a bunch of crap. So what do I do, if that one segment sounds good, Ill google it, and then not need to watch the rest of the 2 hours and 50 minutes of junk. If a bunch of friends said a movie was crap, would you really go out of your way to watch it and confirm it for yourself, or would you just take their opinion and move on? I started watching sometime between 83-85. In that time I've slowly seen the product move away from storytelling and become branded content that is pretty much devoid of genuine emotion, which is a basic tenement of storytelling, make people care by getting them to invest in the story. It's been that way since before Gutenberg started putting it down on paper. Numerous smaller wrestling organizations have been able to do it, with talent WWE went on to sign, yet after they get there....the WWE turns them into blandness and gives them weak characters and bad stories. It makes me sad really, to see what I used to care so passionately about, become this soulless machine that doesn't seem to have any real point to it besides "of look its the WWE". I'll give NXT full points for how I constantly hear only good things about it, but isn't it odd how many talent there almost don't seem interested in going to RAW and most people suspect they would just screw up any talent they bring over because of their track record of doing as such? Is it my fault that numerous people, many of whom are fans of wrestling, make more entertaining products complaining about the current product and talking about old wrestling, that is more entertaining to me than the WWE, and they don't take 3 hours to do it? As I said before, I am interested in the business of professional wrestling. That's why I read about it, I want to know whats going on in case something does re-spark my interest in watching the product. What I'm not interested in is watching, what by all accounts I've heard, has been nothing but a steady stream of poorly made television that goes nowhere, in a world where the entire history of media is available at my finger tips. "It is entitlement if you haven't even watched for 13 years and still expect them to do what you want to see." Do you even understand what I am asking? If a popular comedy show started throwing out heavy drama, people would stop watching in droves. I'm asking for what every other movie and tv show through the course of history has tried to do, deliver what they say they are and try and be entertaining by telling a story. Why is it entitlement to ask for WRESTLING on a WRESTLING show? Why is it shows like Breaking Bad, with smaller budgets and crew, can make compelling tv and interesting characters and have story arcs with endings, yet the WWE, with it's near infinite resources, can't seemingly do that anymore? Is it really entitlement to ask them to follow the basic tenements of scripted tv when they used to be able to do it in the range of excellent to decent? I'm not asking for high brow entertainment here, but it would be nice if the racist lost against the black guy, or that the girl chose the other dude so that it would lead to a feud between two top notch wrestlers, or the main focus of the show wasn't non-wrestlers who are supposed to represent the company, and yet hate the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted December 29, 2015 Share Posted December 29, 2015 You boys are trying to get this sucker locked down again, I see. I was being partly sarcastic, but some people do believe that last night was the start of a "Kevin Owens is a maniac" push that will lead to Brock/KO at WM. Not me. However, others do have hope! I don't know if it's leading to a Brock match. But I think it's leading to something better than whatever the hell he's been doing lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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