AEW - DECEMBER 2023

[odessasteps]

Looks at calendar. 

Only the 17th? 

 

[Godfrey]

27 minutes ago, Sparkleface said:

Make sure to pre-order her book at your local independent bookstore (or ebook/audiobook, if that's more your thing, you do you).

Good call, I can put it next to the Kim Gordon

[Technico Support]

On 12/15/2023 at 6:41 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

That's all good but they've lost three of their biggest stars to WWE

Punk was fired because he was an out of control, paranoid goof.  They didn’t “lose” him.  
 

Jade has undeniable charisma, but there’s only so long a more “work rate” type company can book around her obvious limitations.  She’ll eventually debut in WWE and we’ll see, I guess.  I don’t personally consider her a big loss.  
 

Not sure who the third one is.  Cody?  I’m sure many of us are fine without him.

[John from Cincinnati]

Pretty sure they’re talking about Pillman. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Pretty sure they’re talking about Pillman. 

You leave Lexis Nexis out of this.

[Niners Fan in CT]

6 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Punk was fired because he was an out of control, paranoid goof.  They didn’t “lose” him.  
 

Jade has undeniable charisma, but there’s only so long a more “work rate” type company can book around her obvious limitations.  She’ll eventually debut in WWE and we’ll see, I guess.  I don’t personally consider her a big loss.  
 

Not sure who the third one is.  Cody?  I’m sure many of us are fine without him.

I'm not saying Cody/Punk/Jade make AEW a better on-screen product, it depends on how they are utilized but it's interesting that when it's all said and done, all three of them are going to do big numbers for WWE.  

That makes me question Tony Khan's ability to get the most out of the talent he has. 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

7 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

You leave Lexis Nexis out of this.

There's no praxis for Lexis Nexis, and I'll thank you to not remind me that "praxis" isn't pronounced the same.

[Octopus]

There were many times @DEAN said AEW RULES or RULES THE WORD. But my favorite was when he’d say RULES THE MOTHER FUCKING WORKD. I did some digging and I think this was the first time that combination of words was combined by him:

I feel he would have loooooved the Classic. I didn’t know him personally outside of some friendly messages. But I  really miss his posts and the Caps lettering as if he was shouting things like GREAT! 

[JLowe]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

Punk was fired because he was an out of control, paranoid goof.  They didn’t “lose” him.  
 

Jade has undeniable charisma, but there’s only so long a more “work rate” type company can book around her obvious limitations.  She’ll eventually debut in WWE and we’ll see, I guess.  I don’t personally consider her a big loss.  
 

Not sure who the third one is.  Cody?  I’m sure many of us are fine without him.

It’s wild that they signed Jade and then realized that AEW had basically worked miracles with her matches and that she’s almost totally raw.

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

That makes me question Tony Khan's ability to get the most out of the talent he has. 

How so?  Before Punk’s bullshit, they got a lot out of him.  Jade, they did all they could with her.  Cody was allowed to book himself and we got Death of Superman angles and gender reveals.  None of that illustrates a lack of ability to get something out of talent on Khan’s part.  

55 minutes ago, JLowe said:

It’s wild that they signed Jade and then realized that AEW had basically worked miracles with her matches and that she’s almost totally raw.

I’m amused by the sentiment in some circles that Jade is going to become a great worker now that she’s (spending one day a week) at the performance center.  I’d love to be proven wrong but I feel like she’s missing something that can’t be improved with more reps.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Technico Support

[odessasteps]

I just stumbled upon TK’s spat with Disco. Just disappointing. 

[JLowe]

18 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

How so?  Before Punk’s bullshit, they got a lot out of him.  Jade, they did all they could with her.  Cody was allowed to book himself and we got Death of Superman angles and gender reveals.  None of that illustrates a lack of ability to get something out of talent on Khan’s part.  

I’m amused by the sentiment in some circles that Jade is going to become a great worker now that she’s (spending one day a week) at the performance center.  I’d love to be proven wrong but I feel like she’s missing something that can’t be improved with more reps.

She wants to be a star, not a wrestler. That’s what’s missing.

[Niners Fan in CT]

15 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

How so?  Before Punk’s bullshit, they got a lot out of him.  Jade, they did all they could with her.  Cody was allowed to book himself and we got Death of Superman angles and gender reveals.  None of that illustrates a lack of ability to get something out of talent on Khan’s part.

Punk and Cody are selling ridiculous amounts of merch right now.  Punk's social media engagement numbers are off the charts.  Cody directly impacted the house show business, putting butts in seats.  Jade has been presented as the "Next Big Thing" of the women's division, I see her becoming a very big star for them.  

I know you're going to say Punk needed to be fired and I agree with that, but the thing is he should have been reeled in way before it got to the point it did with Jungle Boy.  WWE felt strongly enough in their management team that they can handle CM Punk. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

4 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

WWE felt strongly enough in their management team that they can handle CM Punk. 

I mean the alternative is just get rid of him. Some people have a Werner Herzog/Klaus Kinski love mostly hate type working relationship, but otherwise, you just get rid of em or he/she quits. I am not sure it's a situation of knowing how to handle someone.

[Casey]

Punk wasn’t the only person that needed to be reeled in. No efforts were made to reconcile the two parties. And keep in mind everyone involved works for Tony Khan, no matter if they’re an EVP or not. And speaking of that title - screams professional for three of them to go out there and lampoon Punk and the Brawl Out scenario, but refuse to patch things up and claim it almost made them want to quit the business. What pros!

[NoFistsJustFlips]

4 hours ago, StretchMediatedHypertrophy said:

Why?

I really think Christian benefits a lot from the TNT Title, and Cassidy the International Title. I mean, yeah I can sort of see why some wrestling fans would find more clearly defined structures psychologically more satisfying, but if you could go back 12 months and scrap a title....I'd be curious to see you justify that in practical terms.

Christian has only had the TNT title like two months now. Don't get confused and lump Luchasaurus' reign as his lol. So to answer this I don't see either reign as anything that couldn't have existed without the titles they have. Christian could have the exact same Patricarchy story without any title involved. OC could have worked a bunch of TV matches without a title and done the same worn down story with the big Mox challenge.

To emphasize the point a bit, what would have changed if the titles were swapped? Could Christian's story been the same with the International Title? Yes. Could OC's story have been the same with the TNT Title? Yes. It's all interchangeable and undefined. If you have titles you have to give them purpose for them to have a meaning to a story. Without purpose they all blend together and don't mean very much. It's not just more psychologically satisfying, it's necessary to tell coherent stories.

If I had to go back 12 months and scrap one, I'd scrap The International Title. You run OC's same story with The TNT Title and your run Christian's same story with either The FTW Title or ROH TV Title. Or vice verse. Because they're all interchangeable and meaningless. Doing that doesn't change one single story beat in either story. Because the titles themselves aren't essential to the story. Any title fills the role equally. Which is kind of the problem I'm trying to point out.

JCP had three separate style stories going because the three titles were different. AEW run the same style stories with every belt. Out of all the secondary titles in the whole entire company, The ROH Pure Title is the only one with a definable identity. And that helps greatly in telling the story of WHY the guys go after that title go after it. It's the technical wrestling purist's title to show they are the best at technical wrestling. That's what titles need. A thematic purpose to exist beyond 'oh look a new belt'.

[Casey]

3 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

ROH Pure Title is the only one with a definable identity. And that helps greatly in telling the story of WHY the guys go after that title go after it. It's the technical wrestling purist's title to show they are the best at technical wrestling. That's what titles need. A thematic purpose to exist beyond 'oh look a new belt'.

can’t wait until noted technical purist HOOK wins the title and unifies it with the FTW title.

[Niners Fan in CT]

21 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I mean the alternative is just get rid of him. Some people have a Werner Herzog/Klaus Kinski love mostly hate type working relationship, but otherwise, you just get rid of em or he/she quits. I am not sure it's a situation of knowing how to handle someone.

I just don't think 'Brawl Out' and the aftermath is handled the same way in current WWE and I believe the end result in WWE is a CM Punk vs. Young Bucks feud where they all make money from it.  They are all under contract, I think WWE gets them all in a room and says "knock it off and let's make some money off this" like they are doing with CM Punk and Seth Rollins, although I'm unclear as to how much those two dislike one another, reports say it's real but who knows. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

7 minutes ago, Casey said:

can’t wait until noted technical purist HOOK wins the title and unifies it with the FTW title.

Is that the story they're going with? I've missed a few TVs. I know Yuta & Hook have a thing going. But it didn't seem like either belt was involved yet. Couldn't the story also be Yuta takes the FTW Title and trashes it because it's not what a Purist would want? That's still in the neighborhood of something fitting what I'm talking about. A thematic story based on the identity & purpose of the title.

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

I think WWE gets them all in a room and says "knock it off and let's make some money off this" 

What is this? Third grade? Is the teacher going put people in opposing corners until time out is over?

Listen. Anything regarding potential dispute resolution is just based on conjecture. Up until real life hits, it's tough to say how anything is going to be handled. That's my whole point. Everyone hopes people will play ball, but that's not always the case. Whether you're firmly in the camp of supporting CM Punk or those against him, the truth is it wouldn't be surprising if their relationship dissolved tomorrow or shortly down the road. WWE doesn't need him and Punk doesn't need them. It's peaches and cream until it's not. That's generally how it goes. No one back here is (1) working backstage in WWE and (2) in the mind of Phil Brooks and able to read what he will do next. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

5 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

The snark and pushback on any attempt to have a discussion about some of AEW's issues are only proving what I said to be true.  It's the "this is fine" meme come to life. 

I'm currently having a discussion about the belts in this thread and neither side of the issue is doing snark or push back. So that disputes that any criticism of issues is automatically returned with snark. I don't even think the most diehard AEW fans would deny a lot of what you're saying about ticket sales and pure facts like that. I think the vibe your posts have given off in the recent past in just this thread (not everywhere, not always, just this conversation) isn't so much a conversation as it is a confrontation.

You have a lot of valid points. 3k people in 10k seat buildings looks bad no matter what company does it as an example. But the way you present it is more that it's an undisputed fact that your side of the argument is the only rational side. I think we all feel like that sometimes but that's not entirely true for any of us.

Like I agree AEW looks bad losing Jade & Cody. They were day 1 homegrown kind of AEW projects. Cody was the whole identity of the company in a lot of ways. And he went from a meh presentation in AEW to a star in WWE. Jade has a huge upside and bright future. They were patient and treated her like a big deal ad she lefgt without really giving anything back. Punk tho I think that's debatable. I have already stated my way to handle it in TK's shoes is get them in a room and fix it. TK rode the fence too long and tried to keep everyone happy. But I don't think AEW looks bad here, I think Punk does. Gigantic hypocrite. But the way you receive that shouldn't be that I'm challenging you with push back or snark.

That's all. The old JR saying about McMahon. Remember go in and converse with the old man, not confront.

[Octopus]

1 hour ago, JLowe said:

It’s wild that they signed Jade and then realized that AEW had basically worked miracles with her matches and that she’s almost totally raw.

Very Heyman-esque in working towards a workers strength. You could still tell she was green but for most of it the title run came across very special. 
I think her working in the PC for a while is really going to do her wonders. 

Cody is an interesting case. His first year or so in AEW he was arguably the face of the company. To me, the start of the company felt more like Dusty’s Revenge and I knew very little about Tony Khan. Eventually, a few character and story missteps it felt like the only option would be a heel turn (maybe they would have done that eventually if he stayed, despite what was being said). 

Punk was a wild situation that was very mishandled and maybe unavoidable (of course there is no way to know that). I’m excited he’s back in wrestling.

The three of them are going to make a lot of money in WWE with a much more established merchandise machine. Cody and Punk came at perfect timing to give an already great story longer legs when there was an arguably potential to get stale. 

Next wrestlers move up an hopefully can fill those voids. Julia Hart? The Danielson semi-retirement run? MJF melodrama? Kingston Kawadaing? Idk, maybe something can hit and get the train moving. There’s stuff I don’t care for and there’s stuff that I’m having a blast with. Wrestling is wrestling and hopefully can still be wrestling.

1 minute ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I'm currently having a discussion about the belts in this thread and neither side of the issue is doing snark or push back. So that disputes that any criticism of issues is automatically returned with snark. I don't even think the most diehard AEW fans would deny a lot of what you're saying about ticket sales and pure facts like that. I think the vibe your posts have given off in the recent past in just this thread (not everywhere, not always, just this conversation) isn't so much a conversation as it is a confrontation.

You have a lot of valid points. 3k people in 10k seat buildings looks bad no matter what company does it as an example. But the way you present it is more that it's an undisputed fact that your side of the argument is the only rational side. I think we all feel like that sometimes but that's not entirely true for any of us.

Like I agree AEW looks bad losing Jade & Cody. They were day 1 homegrown kind of AEW projects. Cody was the whole identity of the company in a lot of ways. And he went from a meh presentation in AEW to a star in WWE. Jade has a huge upside and bright future. They were patient and treated her like a big deal ad she lefgt without really giving anything back. Punk tho I think that's debatable. I have already stated my way to handle it in TK's shoes is get them in a room and fix it. TK rode the fence too long and tried to keep everyone happy. But I don't think AEW looks bad here, I think Punk does. Gigantic hypocrite. But the way you receive that shouldn't be that I'm challenging you with push back or snark.

That's all. The old JR saying about McMahon. Remember go in and converse with the old man, not confront.

It’s not new. That style of posting was present in the previous WrestleMania thread when he was openly misquoting people so he could be overly confrontational. Many times previously of bad faith posts when people disagree with him and claims the other side is being [insert dismissal here]

[Niners Fan in CT]

29 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

What is this? Third grade? Is the teacher going put people in opposing corners until time out is over

WWE has a history of putting differences aside to do business.  

[Elsalvajeloco]

9 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

WWE has a history of putting differences aside to do business.  

CM Punk has a history of not doing business.

See, you always to be prepared for the other answer or response which is. "No, I am going to do that."  So you either acquiesce or say, "Goodbye." That's pretty much it.

So if Punk says, "No, I'm right in the case...fuck him", is WWE just going to consider that No a "yes, I will cooperate" and go about their merry business? That would be the same thing people would believe AEW would do.

We're making too many predictions and assumptions. 

If everything was easy, Punk would have never been in AEW in the first place and using that as a fuck you to WWE.

[Niners Fan in CT]

34 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I'm currently having a discussion about the belts in this thread and neither side of the issue is doing snark or push back. 

 

Because it's not that big of a deal.  AEW does have too many belts but every wrestling promotion has too many belts.  It's not as big of an issue as losing top talent or Collision doing poorly on Saturdays or the weekly attendance numbers falling off.  Those are all major issues moving forward and it was not a situation where my posts were over-the-top and then it lead to snark, the snark was from the very start.  Likely because the posters didn't want to have the conversation.  At the end of the day, I want AEW to do well.  I want all wrestling promotions to do well. I didn't spend time criticizing the in-ring aspects of the company because aside from some missteps like this 'Devil' angle,  I am enjoying most of what they are doing.  The Continental Classic is some of the best weekly television stuff I have seen in years from any promotion.  

 

24 minutes ago, Octopus said:

It’s not new. That style of posting was present in the previous WrestleMania thread when he was openly misquoting people so he could be overly confrontational.

What was the conversation in the WrestleMania thread?  I have no idea what you're talking about.