The Marvels - 11/10/2023

[RandomAct]

That is absolutely a "thing" in the film. I don't mind it it at all, but like Dolfan said, it all gets glossed over pretty quick. It gave me Supergirl/Lena Luthor vibes, in that they wanted to go for it, but also didn't want to.

[Matt D]

The character is 16 right? I haven't seen the movie but I'd argue that platonic hero worship is a superhero trope (though it can go the other way as well too).

Edited November 13, 2023 by Matt D

[Dolfan in NYC]

1 minute ago, Matt D said:

The character is 16 right?

Kamala is, yes.  And believe me, I was hard crushing on adult celebs well before that.  

And to be 100% clear, I am not upset that they didn't go any further than "Besties" between Carol and her.   

Carol and Monica however...  

[RandomAct]

My post was definitely more in reference to Carol and Monica, just to be clear lol. That said, the point about Kamala is completely valid.

[TheVileOne]

5 hours ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Kamala is, yes.  And believe me, I was hard crushing on adult celebs well before that.  

And to be 100% clear, I am not upset that they didn't go any further than "Besties" between Carol and her.   

Carol and Monica however...  

I'm a little iffy on that because Carol helped raise Monica and is her "Auntie Carol." She even says in the film, "I needed my Auntie Carol," or something to that effect.

Edited November 14, 2023 by TheVileOne

[J.T.]

I haven't seen The Marvels so I am unaware of the tone but yeah, Monica is the daughter of Carol's wingman, Maria Rambeau.  I'd think that any relationship between Carol and Monica would be like quasi-familial.

Now if you'd told me that it was Maria and Carol that might've had a relationship that was more than friendly, I'd be inclined to believe it as I'd assumed that it was Carol and Maria that raised Monica.

[(BP)]

“She’s her step-aunt, so it’s cool.”

[odessasteps]

6 hours ago, (BP) said:

“She’s her step-aunt, so it’s cool.”

Hashtag Brazzers

[John from Cincinnati]

On 11/13/2023 at 5:00 AM, RandomAct said:

I was looking for a way to describe the coverage of this film, and you nailed it. Distasteful is definitely the word. It was being called a failure before it ever released and now those same outlets are gloating over their self fulfilling prophecy. 

Depends on what coverage you mean. If you mean the trades at large, it tracked low, opened low, and has to wear some of the worst results of superhero fatigue. Reporting honestly on that and trying to unpack what lessons to take from larger trends isn’t at all distasteful. If by “coverage,” you mean incels spiking the football about a movie led by a cast of diverse women underperforming, well we’re all adults and we know well enough to ignore them. If by “coverage” you mean people happy to see a bit of a market correction with regard to the dominance of super hero movies, well that’s perfectly fine behaviour and can also be ignored. 

 

Re: the movie, it sucks a bit that this is the biggest low so far and weirdos will aggressively try to draw the wrong conclusions, but it sounds like it’s about the trend rather than anything exceptionally appalling about the movie itself. I’m sure once I watch it on D+, I won’t find it as repulsive as a few recent MCU entries (Thor 4, Ant-Man 3, Secret Invasion). Anyone speaking honestly knows these numbers are more about the journey to this place (including leaning too hard of D+ shows) rather than whatever this was. 

[Contentious C]

Maybe the worst thing about this movie is its timing and the fact that it makes Secret Invasion seem even more appallingly stupid.

 

[BrianS81177]

It was better than I thought it would be (I did not care for the Ms Marvel series so my expectations were low) but it still feels to me like a much lower quality than anything that was done in Phase 3. Glossing over Carol destroying the Supreme Intelligence kinda bummed me out. I think a straight Captain Marvel sequel would have been better personally, with maybe a cameo from Kamala towards the end. I didn't hate it, but I have no desire to watch it a second time either.

[J.T.]

Just returned from The Marvels.   It was not the greatest but it did not suck, either.  This movie definitely would've given the events of Secret Invasion far better context if it had been released before that series.

Mid-Credit Scene was kinda awesome.  I think I was the only guy in the theater to recognize the Binary costume.  I was amused by the alterations they made to Binary's costume to make it more modest.  I am sure Lashana saw the original suit from the comics and was like "I'm not wearing that shit."

So, the potential Young Avengers roster as it currently stands is like Ms. Marvel, Hawkeye Kate, Ironheart, and Ant-Girl?  The anti-women neckbeard critics of Woke Disney will not be pleased.

Not sure why it bugged me that the Khan's relocated to Louisiana.  I think it would've been more MCU if Damage Control had shown up to rebuild their house.

I think that Dar-Benn was a superb villain that deserved more mileage.  I'm kinda bummed that she's dead but totally agree that they universe is better off for her perishing.  She was a gloriously genocidal psychopath that definitely had the best reasons for doing the worst things. 

Dar-Benn was an excellent foil for Carol who also had the best reasons for doing the worst things.

Edited November 17, 2023 by J.T.

[Casey]

Wiccan & Speed are rumored to eventually be a part of it, too. Skaar is probably taking Hulkling’s place. America might be a member.

It’s more of a mash-up of Champions & the Young Avengers than anything else. They've already got other members of both teams from the comics lurking around, like Kid Loki, Eli Bradley and Joaquin Torres.

[odessasteps]

Given that, for now, Kang is the big bad, do they find a way to introduce Iron Lad? Or would the character, on the surface, be replaced by Iron heart? (Unless it's revealed she's really Ravonna, like Iron Lad was really Kang)

[J.T.]

Oh and talk about relishing your role.  Zawe had the best villainous sneer and her eyes just screamed "Do you know who you are fucking with right now?  I am batshit crazy!"  And the epic mouth bling!

I was terrified and fascinated at the same time.  Zawe had to be living her best life on that movie set.

"YOU WILL ADDRESS ME AS SUPREMA~!"

Edited November 17, 2023 by J.T.

[John from Cincinnati]

Hope she doesn’t hold back when she’s promoting her next thing 

 

 

[Eivion]

Caught this earlier today with my brother and father. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thought it was the most fun MCU film in a while. I thought the cast all had good chemistry, and I continue to love Iman's Kamala. That girl just brings such wonderful energy and joy to this the same way she did Ms. Marvel. Was nice to see them address Carol and Monica's issues without it being too heavy. Was also nice to see Carol not too thrown by Kamala's hyper fangirling. The villain was nothing special but generally decent with understandable reasons behind her anger even if totally in the wrong. It was a bit of a shame to see the Supreme Intelligence glossed over though it also kind of made sense.

Overall I thought the film did a good job of using Ms. Marvel's tone while dealing with aspects and stories set up back in Ms. Marvel, Wandavision, and Captain Marvel. Its particularly interesting since it didn't feel like you had to watch any of those before this. Dug the Young Avengers tease with Kate. The mid credits scene was fun, and I assume comes back into play during either during Kang Dynasty or Secret Wars.

 

Will say I didn't get much in the way of lesbian undertones even with Kamala's hard fangirling, let alone from Monica and Carol. That relationship felt more familial than anything else. Honestly, the brief Valkyrie appearance felt more like her and Carol having had a thing before more than the other two.

On 11/15/2023 at 7:20 PM, J.T. said:

Not sure why it bugged me that the Khan's relocated to Louisiana.  I think it would've been more MCU if Damage Control had shown up to rebuild their house.

That wouldn't have made a ton of sense given that Damage Control was the government agency who gave Kamala and her community a hard time in Ms. Marvel. I also don't think they did move to Louisiana. Pretty sure they were just helping Carol move.

[Casey]

There is a cut scene supposedly of Carol and Valkyrie where it’s stated that they’re exes.

[J.T.]

1 hour ago, Eivion said:

That wouldn't have made a ton of sense given that Damage Control was the government agency who gave Kamala and her community a hard time in Ms. Marvel. I also don't think they did move to Louisiana. Pretty sure they were just helping Carol move.

I really need to watch Ms Marvel all over again.  I've forgotten a lot of what happened.

I supposes that's true, but I'd think that Nick is powerful enough and has earned enough goodwill to get DC to rethink their bullshit.

Edited November 22, 2023 by J.T.

[Casey]

Damage Control’s vendetta against Ms. Marvel was mainly pushed along by an obviously racist Agent Deever (but Cleary was complicit as well, even if he did eventually relieve her of duty at the end of the season).

But, post Homecoming and the joint venture with Stark Industries, their entire directive is basically to seize dangerous and alien materials (Homecoming) and detain superhumans now (tried to do this with Spider-Man, She-Hulk & Ms. Marvel). I don’t think they’re involved in the rebuilding in much of anything that follows a superhero clash. Unless something has changed during the Marvels, which I haven’t seen yet. Before the first Spider-Man movie, they were a clean-up department basically, but that’s changed it seems.