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AEW Dynamite - 12/23/2020


Dolfan in NYC
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Look, I’m 40 years old and I look worse then Chris Jericho does. I barely step out of my shower without covering up. But is it really that out of line that lapsed fans who may not have seen him in years would be shocked that a dude who used to wrestle for a cruiser weight title has a beer gut? 
 

for the record, wrestling should have more fat guys. For every dude with a six pack, there should be a mick foley or a Samoa joe. And if you can go in the ring, who gives a shit what you look like?

I don’t think it’s unreasonable a casual fan would be all “what the hell?” When they haven’t seen someone in a while. I watch all the time and ric flair horrifies me when they trot him out. We all laughed at hbk doing the job to his hairline earlier in year. Why is Jericho exempt from criticism 

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2 minutes ago, Phil4126 said:

Look, I’m 40 years old and I look worse then Chris Jericho does. I barely step out of my shower without covering up. But is it really that out of line that lapsed fans who may not have seen him in years would be shocked that a dude who used to wrestle for a cruiser weight title has a beer gut? 
 

I would be more shocked that this person doesn't understand the amount of time that has passed. If you were born in late 97/early 98, you are old enough to have voted in not one but TWO presidential elections. A person who was born the last time Jericho was cruiserweight champion has now graduated with a bachelor's degree.

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Flair wasn't just self-conscious about his figure by the end of WCW, he was completely broken. He talked about it in depth in his book and was in tears over it in his DVD IIRC. He credited HHH with helping him get his self-esteem back. So yeah, a lot bigger than having to wear a shirt. 

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2 hours ago, Peck said:

I love Abadon but the neck-biting angle is atrocious. It was terrible when Shayna did it a few months back and it's terrible here. It's SO unrealistic and over-the-top that it completely takes me out of it. Do you think Aubrey would just stand there and look at a person who just had a chunk taken out of the side of their neck in real life? And Shida? She'd be screaming and rolling around asking for help. Medics. Anything. You know it was bad when the announcers barely mentioned it and they quietly went to break.

Forgot about Shayna... that was very WWE of them to pull off a blood capsule gimmick. The real problem is how you go forward with something like that -- a big bandage, and when it comes off what then? That's supposed to be a scar for life that you can't really work around. 

Oh well, I thought it looked cool and I guess I kind of accepted it more because of the Abadon character. YMMV though.

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If the idea was "We're going to have Millions of Basketball fans watching the first two minutes at least", I'd have had Top Flight enter first. Or, like, Jade Cargill.

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Taking up for JeriCOVID, in this economy? Are we in Sturgis?

Body shaming isn't cool, as we all know. But NBA Twitter goes after its own. James Larden is a thing this week. They roast LeBron over his hairline. The crying Jordan memes. NBA Twitter is social media's version of the dozens. Everyone can and will get hit.

Many were caught off guard. They didn't expect Jericho to still be wrestling, and they certainly didn't anticipate his massive beer gut.

More than anything, last night showed how insulated the wrestling bubble really is. It's a niche within a niche.

To @AxB's point--Jade Cargill, with the Shaq connection, would have been a solid choice to showcase first. Or Shida, being the women's champ and dressed like a video game character. Omega may have been too silly for the NBA crowd, but he's your world champ with Callis alongside him, cutting good promos.

The absolute best person would have been Hangman Page, IMO. Young, handsome, athletic, an all-around strong package to put you in the best light. And his politics would go over better with the NBA crowd, had they looked into him a bit more.

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9 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Taking up for JeriCOVID, in this economy? Are we in Sturgis?

Body shaming isn't cool, as we all know.

Body shaming isn't cool, but it's also cool depending on the person and whether you like that person for their beliefs? Is that not a slippery slope?

Anyway, I don't put that much stock into NBA twitter (very much like "Black twitter" is not representative of all black Twitter) and how that goes into deciding who should open up the show or not. You know why? If we're doing it on a minute by minute basis, they're going to find something they don't like. You start off with the most straight lace, non offensive thing you have and the expectation is you ease them into the crazy, bizarre stuff? That's not going to be the show EVERY WEEK. The best AEW can hope for really is put on an awesome show that's full of variety and hope for the best. You hope the matches are up to the snuff, and fans seeing you for the first time like the presentation. Otherwise, this may not be for you.

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15 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Body shaming isn't cool, but it's also cool depending on the person and whether you like that person for their beliefs? Is that not a slippery slope?

Anyway, I don't put that much stock into NBA twitter (very much like "Black twitter" is not representative of all black Twitter) and how that goes into deciding who should open up the show or not. You know why? If we're doing it on a minute by minute basis, they're going to find something they don't like. You start off with the most straight lace, non offensive thing you have and the expectation is you ease them into the crazy, bizarre stuff? That's not going to be the show EVERY WEEK. The best AEW can hope for really is put on an awesome show that's full of variety and hope for the best. You hope the matches are up to the snuff, and fans seeing you for the first time like the presentation. Otherwise, this may not be for you.

Ghost ninjas, dinosaurs, and wrestling dentists! That should tick all the boxes, if it doesn't, go back to watching a bunch of tall, gangling freaks who can't hit a curveball playing in an empty arena. 

As for the pics of Shamrock and Jericho, certainly one is in much better shape, now ask yourself who is more entertaining.

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And FWIW, I'm not saying don't go after NBA fans. I'm saying that AEW from its inception was suppose to be Everything to Everyone (very flawed idea but hey) and supposedly this very progressive wrestling organization. Now folks are saying they're not being inviting enough to a very toxic subsection of fans? Make it make sense. Moreover, what makes anyone believe they will stick around in substantial numbers?

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4 hours ago, Peck said:

I love Abadon but the neck-biting angle is atrocious. It was terrible when Shayna did it a few months back and it's terrible here. It's SO unrealistic and over-the-top that it completely takes me out of it. Do you think Aubrey would just stand there and look at a person who just had a chunk taken out of the side of their neck in real life? And Shida? She'd be screaming and rolling around asking for help. Medics. Anything. You know it was bad when the announcers barely mentioned it and they quietly went to break.

Can we all agree that if Shida starts turning into a zombie that all is forgiven?

Please?

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Body shaming isn't cool, but if you've been a massive jerk like Jericho this year--and himself has body shamed others in the past--it's hard to muster sympathy. Mileage varies, of course.

The point about NBA Twitter is they don't care about anyone's feelings. If they don't spare players of the sport they enjoy, they certainly aren't going to let Jericho off the hook.

If we're being honest, 99% of NBA fans wouldn't stick around for AEW after this week, no matter what. And I get why they'd put Jericho on first--name recognition and all that. It didn't go well. Again, at least with Jade, they could have played into the Shaq story. It doesn't matter what AEW does every week if prospective fans don't come back. Which returns us to wrestling being so insulated.

Wrestling isn't hip and hasn't been for years. AEW and TNT were clearly looking to see if they can pull in new numbers, which they absolutely should. Coming on right after a hot NBA game is perfectly timing. Not hitting the mark isn't the be all and end all, of course not. But it shows how wrestling has a long way to go to even sniff at pop culture relevance again.

Edited by Burgundy LaRue
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I haven't watched yet but they really should've had a brief Shaq pre taped segment in the can for this and then transitioned to something like Hangmin Adam or whomever else, right? Don't think it works too much anyway as yeah wrestling is very unlikely to ever be anything more than a niche form of entertainment moving forward but sometimes the silliness is more palatable once slowly phased in and Shaq would've been the perfect transition. 

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23 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

Body shaming isn't cool, but if you've been a massive jerk like Jericho this year--and himself has body shamed others in the past--it's hard to muster sympathy. Mileage varies, of course.

That's sort of the issue though. People can find reasons to justify about ANYTHING if they feel like it. BODY SHAMING ISN'T COOL BUT...

23 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

The point about NBA Twitter is they don't care about anyone's feelings. If they don't spare players of the sport they enjoy, they certainly aren't going to let Jericho off the hook.

I don't anyone cares about people letting Jericho off the hook as much you had to explain what NBA Twitter IS like it's an entity to be feared when really it's just folks on Twitter being toxic. Ok, let them be toxic on Twitter. It doesn't need to be brought outside of Twitter. I would never bring up on here something discussing folks dragging people on Black Twitter about this or that because it's largely irrelevant. People talk about something and then move on. 

Quote

If we're being honest, 99% of NBA fans wouldn't stick around for AEW after this week, no matter what. And I get why they'd put Jericho on first--name recognition and all that. It didn't go well. Again, at least with Jade, they could have played into the Shaq story. It doesn't matter what AEW does every week if prospective fans don't come back. Which returns us to wrestling being so insulated.

Wrestling isn't hip and hasn't been for years. AEW and TNT were clearly looking to see if they can pull in new numbers, which they absolutely should. Coming on right after a hot NBA game is perfectly timing. Not hitting the mark isn't the be all and end all, of course not. But it shows how wrestling has a long way to go to even sniff at pop culture relevance again.

Wrestling isn't so much insulated so much as you will not be able to galvanize people when there is something for everyone. Hell, that's why wrestling has some of the fanbase it has now. The shit certain people find peculiar is something other people love about different aspects of pro wrestling. There is no such thing as a norm because a lot more stuff is considered "normal".

The thing is the Bucks-Celtics isn't pop culture relevance defined. Giannis is a two time MVP. My mom has no clue who this dude is, but guess what? She knows who LeBron is. The NBA has their SUPERSTARS, their stars, and folks who should be famous but aren't. Jamal Murray and Donovan Mitchell put on a goddamn show in the bubble and half of America wouldn't recognize them if they had their own jerseys on. It is what it is

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Am I the only one when tripping sometimes takes a step back and recognizes just how fucking weird pro wrestling is? Shit is wild. And we analyze and break down everything like a social science, lol. 

Edited by Jiji
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For Curt: it was Darren Young who looked a lot like Cena at least when clean shaven!

As far as Jericho and Shamrock go, yeah Ken looks great, but the amount of stuff he needs to put into his system in order to look like that is likely as bad for him as the stuff Jericho puts into his system is!

Beside the point, but it's a shame we never did get to see the Shamrock -Jericho match (es) that were supposed to be Y2J's first feud in the WWF, back in '99. I just watched Unforgiven '99 last week and was reminded of the fact. And even more now, seeing their pics side by side .

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3 minutes ago, Jiji said:

Am I the only one when tripping sometimes takes a step back and recognizes just how fucking weird pro wrestling is? Shit is wild. And we analyze and break down everything like a social science, lol. 

I'm just saying if we get Jericho or Marko Stunt (your pick) on The Masked Singer, that will solve wrestling's pop culture problem. 

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Legitimately cannot believe people are suggesting that Jade Cargill should have been featured as the intro from the NBA game because of some tenuous connection to Shaq. She’s green and not a very good promo.

Do you hate ratings?

The only possible better option to keep people watching would be Sting and maybe not because the NBA audience skews a little younger. And AEW likes to start its shows with matches to differentiate itself from WWE.

Some people were mocking Jericho’s physique but they were watching and there were probably more watching that didn’t comment.

Also, this is a company that employs Joey Janela, Marko Stunt, and Chuck Taylor, so having a good physique obviously isn’t a requirement. 

Jericho should probably consider wrestling in a T-Shirt if he can’t lean out at his age.

Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good show except for the Dark Order vs Jurassic Express match. Even the small guy in the DO taking bumps off of missile drop kicks from Marko Stunt looked absolutely ridiculous. And quite honestly, they should be ashamed of themselves for leaving their feet for that clown.

I like how the show was bookended with two young tag teams looking good in losses to established guys. 

Although calling out another ref to count the pin fall when they’d just blatantly cheated is a little weird. If he has the authority to count the pin fall why couldn’t he disqualify them?

I liked their music video they did too and hope that’s something they’ll continue to do. I think it’s a good way to get the gimmick over and to differentiate themselves from Cena a little bit since I don’t recall him ever doing one.

AEW’s taped shows are never as good as the live shows but overall this was pretty good.

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Top Flight totally came off like future superstars, especially considering how young they are. I wonder if we see MJF making passive aggressive remarks about how he was the one who got the fall in the match? Hagar/Wardlow is spiderman pointing at spiderman.

The Tag titles match was better than I was expecting. Caster and Bowens are less of the "two lower card guys thrown together" and starting to gel. The Bucks didn't go too far over the top with getting their shit in, though the JVC Kaboom Box spot shouldn't be used each match.

Was there a botch at the end of the Pac/Butcher match? After Pac kicked out of the powerbomb Butcher still had him down and at his mercy, yet he just stood around awkwardly? Also, who is supposed to be the face in that Kingston and friends vs Death Triangle angle?

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53 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

Also, who is supposed to be the face in that Kingston and friends vs Death Triangle angle?

Rey Fenix.

As far as putting Jade Cargill on first, I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's a decent chance basketball fans may be big fans of tall people. 

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