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SDL Presents Money in the Bank 2017

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1 minute ago, steve said:

Hypothetically, if Rusev had handed the briefcase to Lana, does the fact that people give a crap about them mitigate the Backlash at all? 

Absolutely. I think it's a fun loophole to exploit in the MITB rules. It's obnoxious, but it hasn't been done before (as far as I can remember). Though, I think there's an argument to be made about it devaluing the larger match and its place in history. 

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One match show and even that had a beginning and end that killed the crowd.

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12 minutes ago, steve said:

Hypothetically, if Rusev had handed the briefcase to Lana, does the fact that people give a crap about them mitigate the backlash at all?

No, you still undercut your own narrative you video packaged before the match after the intros for a weapons grade tone deaf horseshit Russo-esque booking decision that can have non-wrestling consequences to the company. 

 

It was shit no matter who was involved. 

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It's interesting that the first three responses were so varied.

When it happened live, I was multitasking, so I didn't have my eyes on the screen at the finish. All I heard was the bell, then nothing. The silence actually startled me and made me look up to see what had happened. So that's what made me think of the Lana/Rusev scenario, because at least they would've had heat of some kind.

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Second straight PPV that pushed the heels heavily.

Take the gender equation out - why are people upset about 'heel manager fucks babyfaces to help undeserving client win?' If Carmella is gonna win, and you can debate that, should she have mowed down the babyfaces like she was Brock Lesnar? Match was good, work was good, crowd dug it. And then a chickenshit heel had a second to help cheat. Good finish.

Mike and Maria's theme is great and continues my favorite WWE trope of happily married heels. His work is basically tailor made for eight minute TV matches and they've had seven years to perfect this act. I think he has a chance to be successful and she's a great promo.

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If it wasn't the first women's MITB match, I don't think as many people would complain about the finish but the fact that they spent weeks hyping how this was the first ever match and how big of an opportunity it was for the women only to have a male be the one to actually get the briefcase is at least why I didn't like it. 

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As a whole, I liked the finish of the Women's MITB. However because of the historical significance of it all and how much female fans were looking forward to it, it was the wrong finish for the wrong time. I'm not real sure how they get out of the bind they put themselves in. Also for how many people I saw talk about Ellsworth grabbing the briefcase prior to the match it might have seemed like a good idea but the negative reaction from the female fan base shows there has to be more than one female voice at the production meeting because, seemingly, someone should have realized the historical significance and decided on a clean finish at the PPV and then they could've done the screw job finish on Tuesday.

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Valid but in the first ever historic Hell in the Cell match Shawn Michaels only wins when Undertaker's long dead brother interferes in a CAGE and gives the chickenshit heel an undeserved win. 

I dunno...people get defensive about how the women are treated (for valid reasons) and are really sensitive but it sometimes seems a bit condescending. All those performers have a story from this and intrigue coming out of it. 

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They certainly could have had Carmella climb the ladder herself. Have Elsworth either hold back one of the women from getting into the ring to stop her, or set up a fallen ladder and hold it steady for Carmella to climb it. Same result and you get much better optics.

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Isn't that the heat, though? You pump something up as historic and have someone crap all over it? It is a work after all...

Orton vs. Jinder was super. Predictable finish but the work was really strong and the crowd was great.

Men's MITB was fun.

Women's MITB could have used about 5 more minutes. I liked that they went with violence over bumps. Very smart.

Decent show overall.

 

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1 minute ago, Hagan said:

Valid but in the first ever historic Hell in the Cell match Shawn Michaels only wins when Undertaker's long dead brother interferes in a CAGE and gives the chickenshit heel an undeserved win. 

I dunno...people get defensive about how the women are treated (for valid reasons) and are really sensitive but it sometimes seems a bit condescending. All those performers have a story from this and intrigue coming out of it. 

People had already interfered in cage matches when Hell in a Cell happened and a thought to be dead monster ripping the door off the cage is a much cooler finish than a manager climbing a ladder and dropping a briefcase to someone.

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1 minute ago, Hagan said:

Valid but in the first ever historic Hell in the Cell match Shawn Michaels only wins when Undertaker's long dead brother interferes in a CAGE and gives the chickenshit heel an undeserved win. 

I dunno...people get defensive about how the women are treated (for valid reasons) and are really sensitive but it sometimes seems a bit condescending. All those performers have a story from this and intrigue coming out of it. 

But the first ever HITC wasn't the first cage match two men ever preformed in. This was (as far as I can tell) the first ladder match that WWE proper ever held with the women. Maybe it's just the circles I follow on social media but I have not seen one female fan be positive about the finish. I think in that aspect the finish was incredibly tone deaf. However from a general pro-wrestling standpoint the finish made sense of a heel  getting the big win by possibly skirting the rules but they needed to address a few things during the ending. Do the rules state that whoever unhooks the briefcase is the winner or the first person to take a hold of the briefcase after it is unhooked is the winner? Why did the referees and whoever was running Smackdown let The Big Hog just announce Carmella as the winner while the referees were still debating the finish? 

Also people being disappointed by the ending is pro-wrestling. How many times over the years has any wrestling promotion booked something that made perfect booking sense but the crowd just shat all over it for whatever reason. All pro-wrestling companies misread their audience, the big thing will be to see how WWE responds on Tuesday on if they're going to find a way to fix this or if they will, somehow, double down on this.

 

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I missed most of the show on a count of me being passed out from the effects of a June cold. Those are fun when it's humid as hell. I woke up to watch the final MITB match and I never realized there was a formula, but as someone mentioned above with the Women's match (two people fight/the rest lay outside for a bit) that's essentially how it goes.

I like Corbin so I'm not mad that he won. But, it would have made more sense for Nakamura to have not returned to the match at all. Baron wins the match this way he can gloat on Tuesday than Nakamura can come out and say "you didn't win anything" or something to that effect. I think Corbin and him could have a good feud. But umm no place for logic or reason here.

Also, Ric Flair is a horrible friend.

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12 minutes ago, Charlie M. said:

Isn't that the heat, though? You pump something up as historic and have someone crap all over it? It is a work after all...

That doesn't work when we consider how they're still pushing the Women's Revolution. They finally give the women a legitimate chance to prove themselves in a ladder match, only for Vince McMahon's human punchline to pull down the briefcase.  It's a bad look.  And make no mistake: Carmella winning MITB has more to do with Vince being entertained by Ellsworth than her.

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9 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

That doesn't work when we consider how they're still pushing the Women's Revolution. They finally give the women a legitimate chance to prove themselves in a ladder match, only for Vince McMahon's human punchline to pull down the briefcase.  It's a bad look.  And make no mistake: Carmella winning MITB has more to do with Vince being entertained by Ellsworth than her.

They're a bunch of old men desperate to try and get any sort of heat. This got heat. Is it the right heat? Will it elevate Carmella? We'll see but a good heel during the Women's Revolution time is one who scares people into thinking it's all going to come crumbling down.

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Hype Bros vs. Colons was good.

Women's MITB was nice while it lasted. I think the match itself was a bit on the short side. I would have liked the finish a lot more if this had been the second women's MITB match or something. I can see why they went with it as its a great heel move to put over Carmella/Ellsworth, but they pushed this way too much as historically important for this finish to work.

New Day vs. Usos was good while it lasted. I was fine with the finish.

Naomi vs. Lana was ok. Lana is definitely still green, but she shows potential. I think the finish was unnecessary. I would have preferred the tease to happen after Naomi won.

Fashion Vice was fun. I pretty much skipped the match with the Ascension. I assume the Ascension was are red herring and the angle is still on.

Orton vs. Jinder was good again.

I was kind in and out for the Men's MITB until the last ten minutes. Things picked up immensely with Nakamura's return. I loved the faceoff with AJ. I loved them teasing Nakamura winning it only to give it to Baron. I've been fond of Baron for a good two years now so I'm happy to see him take the win. He has been improving for a decent while now and needed this more than everyone else since WWE keeps starting and stopping with his push. I only wish they didn't go so heel heavy with this show to make it mean more.

Booker referencing Last Dragon on the show brought a smile to my face. Baron was pretty good in the final part. I'm curious who beats Jinder only for Baron to take the belt off of them immediately.

Overall the show was decent. I think the women's MITB was the only major booking mistake, but it didn't ruin the show for me.

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58 minutes ago, GodzillaPerez said:

If it wasn't the first women's MITB match, I don't think as many people would complain about the finish but the fact that they spent weeks hyping how this was the first ever match and how big of an opportunity it was for the women only to have a male be the one to actually get the briefcase is at least why I didn't like it. 

Just push Ellsworth as an exotico.  The character is 90% of the way there.

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24 minutes ago, Charlie M. said:

They're a bunch of old men desperate to try and get any sort of heat. This got heat. Is it the right heat? Will it elevate Carmella? We'll see but a good heel during the Women's Revolution time is one who scares people into thinking it's all going to come crumbling down.

We'll have to disagree on this.  Because having a man pull down the women's briefcase in the first-ever MITB for the division is incredibly tone deaf IMO.

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44 minutes ago, Charlie M. said:

They're a bunch of old men desperate to try and get any sort of heat. This got heat. Is it the right heat? Will it elevate Carmella? We'll see but a good heel during the Women's Revolution time is one who scares people into thinking it's all going to come crumbling down.

The problem is, this is the type of heat that causes fans to turn off the TV and never watch WWE programming again. David Arquette and Vince Russo winning the WCW World Title got heat too but still did major damage to the company.

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I just don't think it's at that level. It's not the finish I would have done but I don't think it was done as a joke nor do I think it's going to lead to doom and gloom for the division.

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I may be crazy by WWE standards, but when you are pushing the first Money in the Bank women's match as a huge milestone for women's wrestling, doesn't having a man win it for them kind of undermine that point?

I want AJ Styles vs Nakamura for the title at Wrestlemania and then I want Corbin to cash it on them after the match.

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I don't think it's at the company killing heat that Arquette/Russo's wins help build up to but I could see a good portion of the female audience decide "Fuck this shit" as I think the handling of Bayley, the perceived burial of Becky Lynch and then Carmella needing Ellsworth to win her the MITB in the historic Women's MITB match could lead to further audience drop.

(I have no clue what percentage of WWE's audience is female, so my assessment of this could be way off and not bother WWE Inc. in the slightest)

 

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2 hours ago, hammerva said:

Do white people who think they are black really dress like James Ellsworth now?  that outfit was something

AJ hanging from that hook all I can think of "he is going to do that bump he did at Destination X".  In hindsight it might have been a better idea

I did like that after years of Sami screwing Kevin Owens out of the big opportunity in ladder matches that Kevin finally got some paycheck.  Of course then almost killing himself taking that AA to the ladder.  

 His gimmick is not that he thinks he is black.  His gimmick is that he wears whatever New Jersey douchebag clothes Carmella dresses him in.  Did you not see the vignettes?  

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There was once an angle in IWA Mid South where Chuck Taylor pinned the women's champ and took possession of the title.  He was told he had 30 days to prove he was a woman or relinquish the title.  Given Bryan's habit of referring to Ellsworth as "The Big Hog" something tells me he knows he doesn't qualify as being able to have participated in the match.  Given the tone deaf bullshit the powers that be have shown I doubt they'll do something that clever though.

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1 hour ago, Hagan said:

Second straight PPV that pushed the heels heavily.

Take the gender equation out - why are people upset about 'heel manager fucks babyfaces to help undeserving client win?' If Carmella is gonna win, and you can debate that, should she have mowed down the babyfaces like she was Brock Lesnar? Match was good, work was good, crowd dug it. And then a chickenshit heel had a second to help cheat. Good finish.

Mike and Maria's theme is great and continues my favorite WWE trope of happily married heels. His work is basically tailor made for eight minute TV matches and they've had seven years to perfect this act. I think he has a chance to be successful and she's a great promo.

We have to get Miz/Maryse v Mike/Maria at some point with each trying to outdo the other in showing love and affection to their partner.

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