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WWE NETWORK GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD


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I decided to watch December to Dismember because I wasn't really paying attention to the ECW revival at that time, and early on this show had an angle to take Sabu out of the Chamber. 

 

There was a chance to have Sabu in a Chamber match and WWE ruined it of their own volition?! I feel robbed of something that I didn't know I wanted until it was (briefly) offered to me and then taken away. Sabu in the chamber would have been nuts. 

 

EDIT: The Chamber itself was pretty well-paced and had good spots. Test's elbow off the chamber onto RVD and Big Show stalking Lashley with the bat felt really monster-movie-ish, for example. What killed it is WWE's insistence on paying off Show/Lashley when everyone wanted Punk or RVD to win. But it was a good match and I thought Show's facial expressions were great in particular.

 

The show had a good tag match, a bunch of mediocre-to-bad stuff in the middle, and a main event that was really fun, but poorly-booked. So kinda like the typical current WWE PPV. Don't know why this PPV has a rep for being particularly bad when that's standard fare for current WWE. 

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ECW TV 1/31/95

 

Public Enemy vs Taz/Sabu....goddamn another wild brawl.  Taz totally fucks up Flyboy Rocco Rock with a german suplex and breaks his neck

 

Man, some of these Cactus Jack vs Sandman matches are just totally insane.  I think he splits his hand open punching a garbage can into Sandman's face or something equally crazy.  The promo Cactus does after their match where his hand is split wide open and bleeding, and he talks about how he might not be hardcore enough anymore to go toe-to-toe with a psycho like The Sandman was just amazing.

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On a side note, I just saw the Raw after Survivor Series 95 where Diesel does the promo about not being Vince's corporate puppet and the suits in Titan Towers, and Shawn and Owen do the "concussion" angle. Say what you want about the Kliq, but if this shit was all put together in their car as said in certain shoot interviews, then color me impressed. This stuff is way ahead of it's time, especially for this era of the WWF.

 

I still think that RAW is one of the ten best episodes they ever did.  That show just felt so real.  And I'll admit, as a kid I totally bought Shawn passing out. 

 

And as far as 1997 Bret Hart?  4/21/97.  The greatest RAW ever.  And it was all booked on the fly in less than 24 hours because Bret got injured the night before and needed surgery.  Desperate WWF was so much better than complacent WWE.

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December to Dismember

 

Don't know why this PPV has a rep for being particularly bad when that's standard fare for current WWE. 

 

partially because it was the first non-memorial ECW ppv AND didn't deliver.

partly because there were next-to-no matches announced for the show.

partly because Sabu was taken out of the chamber (and replaced by Bob Holly if i remember right).  

partly because on an ECW PPV, the only "ECW Original" that won was Balls Mahoney.

partly because this show got Heyman fired from WWE, so it looks even WORSE in retrospect.

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All fair enough, Twiztor. I did watch the show out of context and years later. What you say makes sense.

 

And yeah, losing Sabu for Hardcore Holly was a total bummer. 

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On a side note, I just saw the Raw after Survivor Series 95 where Diesel does the promo about not being Vince's corporate puppet and the suits in Titan Towers, and Shawn and Owen do the "concussion" angle. Say what you want about the Kliq, but if this shit was all put together in their car as said in certain shoot interviews, then color me impressed. This stuff is way ahead of it's time, especially for this era of the WWF.

 

I still think that RAW is one of the ten best episodes they ever did.  That show just felt so real.  And I'll admit, as a kid I totally bought Shawn passing out. 

 

And as far as 1997 Bret Hart?  4/21/97.  The greatest RAW ever.  And it was all booked on the fly in less than 24 hours because Bret got injured the night before and needed surgery.  Desperate WWF was so much better than complacent WWE.

 

 

That Raw with the Austin/Hart street fight and the ambulance job is hands down my favorite Raw match/aftermath of all time.  I've never marked out harder in my life than when Stone Cold hijacks the ambulance with the driver's head rolled up in the window and then he pulls Bret out of the back still strapped to the stretcher to keep kicking his ass.  "WE'RE GOING STRAIGHT TO HELL!"

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I'm excited for 4/21/97. It was really great. I'm back on 11/25/96, and already these shows have just escalated into really awesome television, with Austin trying to Pillmanize Bret's ankle, Owen trying to help him, and Bulldog coming out to stop it before Austin clobbers Bulldog with the chair out of frustration to the anger of Owen. This is really awesome foreshadowing of the Austin vs. Hart Foundation feud that will be coming in a few months and was captivating television.

 

Sure, they followed up with an Executioner vs. Freddie Joe Floyd match, but hey, they're not quite all the way there yet. 

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Decided to give the network another try after I cancelled it the day after Wrestlemania. Not one new Nitro uploaded. Not one new old school house show. Will be canceling it when the free month is up.

 

Table for 3 was really good, but was way too short.

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I was considering cancelling until they started uploading 1997 RAW, now I'm hooked.  That was always my favorite year for the WWE/WWF.  It felt so fresh, plus it still had remnants of traditional WWF.  It seemed to take all the good things about 90's WWF, up to that point, and then threw in a ton of interesting new things. 

 

I'm up to the show after Cold Day in Hell, in May.  The Shamrock/Vader match from that show was incredible and felt very fresh, and I enjoyed it more than the Taker/Austin main event.  The latter bored me initially but I got into it more as it progressed.  I think on the go-home show for CDIH, the Undertaker seemed like a giant afterthought.  Now, apparently we're getting Faarooq/Taker at KOTR.  I think I'll skip that one.  On a final note, for the RAW show after CDIH, Vince stopped doing his elaborate, dramatic intros for guys he was interviewing.  The guys just sorta walked down to the ring and Vince said nothing.  I liked his throaty intros.

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I have to say that what's going on in WWF by late 1996 at the top of the card is genuinely more intriguing than the same stuff over in WCW. First of all, the finish and aftermath of the IYH: It's Time PPV was hot, and second, the shifting alliances and bunch of guys acting like tweeners actually works. I'm watching it side by side with Nitro, and the Piper stuff is terrible and sort of cancels out the Sting intrigue. 

 

EDIT rather than double-posting: I am really glad to see that Rey Mysterio was the first WCW guy to finally figure out that Crow Sting was a good dude and just sick of (and reacting to) WCW's shit. 

 

Sting as '80s babyface is great, but I really do love Crow and Joker Sting just because Steve Borden plays "annoyed with the idiots" so well. 

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I was considering cancelling until they started uploading 1997 RAW, now I'm hooked.  That was always my favorite year for the WWE/WWF.  It felt so fresh, plus it still had remnants of traditional WWF.  It seemed to take all the good things about 90's WWF, up to that point, and then threw in a ton of interesting new things. 

 

I'm up to the show after Cold Day in Hell, in May.  The Shamrock/Vader match from that show was incredible and felt very fresh, and I enjoyed it more than the Taker/Austin main event.  The latter bored me initially but I got into it more as it progressed.  I think on the go-home show for CDIH, the Undertaker seemed like a giant afterthought.  Now, apparently we're getting Faarooq/Taker at KOTR.  I think I'll skip that one.  On a final note, for the RAW show after CDIH, Vince stopped doing his elaborate, dramatic intros for guys he was interviewing.  The guys just sorta walked down to the ring and Vince said nothing.  I liked his throaty intros.

 

I was at CDIH live. I'll always remember the way the crowd collectively went "ohhhhh shiiiiiiiiiiiiit" when Vader nailed Shammy with that right hand after Shamrock stiffed him with the knee in the corner. They went home REALLY quickly after that. We couldn't tell if it was a work or not but I do remember Vader seemed really grumpy with Shamrock for the entire match and I think Shamrock put more torque on the ankle lock than was warranted b/c it looked like Vader legit needed some help getting to the back.

 

The Taker/Austin match started slow but they had the crowd going towards the end. I think they started slow b/c they didn't want a fast start and then have the momentum get lost once The Harts came out. I do remember that no one in the audience (at least from what I could tell from listening to people around me and in the concession/ticket lines) really gave Austin a chance but he was still mega over.

 

Another takeaway from that show was how hated Rocky was. The only noise during his match was when he Rock Bottomed Mick onto the steel ramp (and even that was more people gasping at how crazy Mick was rather than anything to do with Rocky) and the pop for when Mick reversed the crossbody into the Mandible Claw.

 

One thing I thought was weird is that they did a dark match after the show. LOD beat Owen/Bulldog via DQ in a pretty quick match. IIRC, it went about 10 minutes and Neidhart or Pillman did a run in after the LOD hit the Doomsday Device.

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On a side note, I just saw the Raw after Survivor Series 95 where Diesel does the promo about not being Vince's corporate puppet and the suits in Titan Towers, and Shawn and Owen do the "concussion" angle. Say what you want about the Kliq, but if this shit was all put together in their car as said in certain shoot interviews, then color me impressed. This stuff is way ahead of it's time, especially for this era of the WWF.

 

I still think that RAW is one of the ten best episodes they ever did.  That show just felt so real.  And I'll admit, as a kid I totally bought Shawn passing out. 

 

And as far as 1997 Bret Hart?  4/21/97.  The greatest RAW ever.  And it was all booked on the fly in less than 24 hours because Bret got injured the night before and needed surgery.  Desperate WWF was so much better than complacent WWE.

 

 Just started watching this, in the first ten minutes Vince has said that Ahmed Johnson united all of South Africa, "something even Nelson Mandela tried and failed to do", then Lawler compares the "nation of Africa" to the Nation of Domination, stellar stuff

 

Even more impressive if he united Africa while sporting that immense wedgie

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Thoughts on Royal Rumble 95

 

The Roadie put Jeff Jarrett over the top as a wrestler who should be taken seriously. Not only did Roadie help Jarrett win the IC title, but they attacked Diesel later in the night to set up Double J for shots at the WWF title. It's amazing how having a lackey makes you seem like a bigger deal. Call it The Raven Effect.

 

Bret Hart and Diesel had another strong WWF title match. However, it didn't make sense for Shawn Michaels to attack Diesel after the jackknife powerbomb. His action should have saved Diesel's title by disqualification, but the match kept going.

 

Bret was great during the Rumble getting his retribution against Owen and Backlund, setting them up for easy eliminations. He added life to a Rumble with a lackluster field, laden with mid-90s gimmick guys (Kwang, Duke Droese, Mantaur) and tag team guys who had no chance to win (Bushwhackers, Heavenly Bodies, New Headshrinkers, Well Dunn).

 

Speaking of tag teams, The 1-2-3 Kid and Bob Holly seem to have only won the titles to kick off Bigelow's angle with Lawrence Taylor, with LT laughing at Bam Bam losing to the Kid. It wouldn't have been such a laughing matter for Bigelow to lose to one of the Smoking Gunns, who won the belts from Holly and Kid one night later.

 

Of course, Shawn Michaels is the MVP based on his wire-to-wire victory in the Rumble. Not only did he pull off the spectacular "one-foot-on-the floor" ending, but he was also pressed overhead five times (Bulldog twice, Luger, Sionne and Crush) but never dumped to the floor.

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Of course, Shawn Michaels is the MVP based on his wire-to-wire victory in the Rumble. Not only did he pull off the spectacular "one-foot-on-the floor" ending, but he was also pressed overhead five times (Bulldog twice, Luger, Sionne and Crush) but never dumped to the floor.

 

I always hate press slams in battle royals that don't end in eliminations. Just throw the effing guy out!

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The Roadie put Jeff Jarrett over the top as a wrestler who should be taken seriously. Not only did Roadie help Jarrett win the IC title, but they attacked Diesel later in the night to set up Double J for shots at the WWF title. It's amazing how having a lackey makes you seem like a bigger deal. Call it The Raven Effect.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE Roadie taunting Razor every time Jarrett does something to work the knee. It still cracks me up to this day.

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I'd love to see more from '98.  Raw has their stuff up, but it's going to be interesting to look back and compare how Nitro and ECW were.  Shit, I don't know how I saw as much as I did back then with all the channel surfing between WWF and WCW.  Kind of crazy that they're rolling out the shows now to see how the war shaped up.  ECW was really becoming more known among fans and Nitro was in their peak business despite the idiotic booking.  Skimming through that '98 Nitro it had the usual suspects.  Goldberg, oversized nWo group, Konnan, and Nitro Girls.  I might be woefully behind on the old weekly TVs, but I could see watching all the '98 stuff with no problem.

 

Oh, and Bryan Alvarez had a conniption fit over this on the B&V show but he's right.  The buffering on the old shows is killing me.  i have great connection yet it's impossible to watch the old shows without a lot of buffering going on.  It's on the PS4, but it got me on the phone as well.

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I'm curious about the buffering issues. I've seen a lot of people complain about them with the old shows but I haven't had any issues in a while. Maybe it's because I watch a lot of the stuff around 1030-11pm at night (Eastern) but I feel like that can't be the only difference. I was having some issues a few months ago where it'd take a few minutes before settling in but it's been good for a while. I'm able to fast forward and stuff with no problems. I'm using a relatively old Roku 2 XS, although it is hard wired.

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Buffering is pretty bad for me and I'm hard-wired on a PS3 (and I pretty much solely watch stuff late at night.)  I've learned that if I want to watch anything old, it's best to start the show, pause it, and then wait five minutes or so.  Then there is usually no problem.  Unless I want to rewind something.  Then it's back to stuttering.

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