Curt McGirt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I still own a copy of this. When PWI, of all people, is putting it on their front page... 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMN Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 6 hours ago, The Natural said: I'm the opposite, Crow Sting especially WCW September 1997-December 1997 and AEW December 2020-March 2024 is my favourite. My least favourite by far is nWo Wolfpac Sting. I liked Crow Sting during the run up to Starrcade, I just would have liked to see it toned down after that, a hybrid would have been good. 5 hours ago, BloodyChamp said: Everything should have “ended” after Starrcade. Starrcade was judgement day and instead Ted Turner just paid everybody’s fines. Sting going back could have been done with the proper build I think but the 1 thing realistic thing I liked was how he was never the same again after being accused no matter what strides he made. It was 1 of the few realistic things about him that wasn’t ruined IMO. That's a fair point and one I didn't think about, it was a good evolution of the character in that regard. 4 hours ago, Curt McGirt said: We're forgetting that Sting was getting old and might've needed the bodysuit. He says he quit roiding in '90, after all. Six years can make a difference (and who knows WHAT he looks like under there now). I wouldn't expect him to still look the same, I think he could have kept the bodysuits and done a more hybrid character. I dunno, even though I was always a WWF kid, with Bret as my dude, Sting was the one WCW guy I really fucked with. 3 hours ago, Phantom Lord said: I just watched a video clip from one of the Starrcasts and he talked about that. Basically he said he didn't have the hair up top anymore to do a flat top like that. He was open to doing neon paint or whatever, but his hair was too far gone. That's fair, and, honestly, I don't think the longer dark hair and neon face paint was a great look for him anyway. In the end, it probably just comes down to nostalgia for the Sting that was there in my childhood, and, considering probably my biggest idol as a kid was Howie Long, with the flat top too (even I had one because of Howie), maybe I just like dudes with that haircut, lol. People are probably right about that type of babyface not being viable in the later 90s, too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyChamp Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, Technico Support said: What's this? Dick Slater beat Sting up for effin with Dark Journey who he was in love with. The details across shoots have been different. Some say Slater clocked him from behind then beat him up, some say he caught him coming out of the dumper and gave him a swirly, some say it was a straight up fight that Slater won. Dark Journey’s status has been told differently also. She was a stripper who Slater had met at a stripclub so some say he was crushing a little too hard, and that they were never together in her mind in real life. It all ended every which way with Slater roughing Sting up though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 I recently read an article about Slater beating up somebody else, not Bob Roop (whom he did, incredibly), but somebody I'm not recalling. They mentioned the Sting beating too and said Sting took it like a man and never said a word after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 3 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: I recently read an article about Slater beating up somebody else, not Bob Roop (whom he did, incredibly), but somebody I'm not recalling. They mentioned the Sting beating too and said Sting took it like a man and never said a word after. John Matuzak .? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyChamp Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 4 hours ago, The Natural said: I've always said Starrcade 1997 was the beginning of the end for WCW. https://deathvalleydriver.com/forum/index.php?/topic/10224-wcw-starrcade-1997-25-years-later-the-start-of-the-end-for-wcw/#comments Fuck Hollywood Hogan and fuck Eric Bischoff. My first post from that thread: Winning a round against Vince isn’t “beating” Vince. Vince beat Eric. WWF beat WCW, and it was all because of Starrcade. I know I know alot of other dumb stuff happened but they were just nails in the coffin. The coffin was Starrcade. I don’t even buy the “yeah but” concerning Sting being out of shape. Was Hogan in shape? Was ANY WCW champion since a young STING ever in shape? I wish Sting would have challenged Hogan to a lap around the building. It might have killed Hogan. I think I said that in the other 25 years thread. Heck not long after this the criteria for being champion was to be out of shape as Dean Malenko pointed out lol! So seriously, fuck Hogan. He ruined it. He ruined it all. It was the best build up to a match ever. Better than Hogan/Andre, better than Austin/HBK, and better than everything else. Hogan wussed out of doing business because he’s a chickenshit and a liar. And that’s really all there is to it. 9 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zendragon Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 2 hours ago, Infinit said: I think a remixed surfer Sting as a babyface legend would have worked, much like how Taker made the "old school Deadman" work after Mania 20. I thought this was something TNA got right, crow sting w/ red highlights and the sergeant pepper jacket 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanie Sparkleface Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 My enduring memory of Sting will always be the night when he and Lex Luger interrupted a NWO tape in the production truck during one of the Disney episodes of Nitro, and when he's being escorted out by security, shouts that there is free pot pie and Mountain Dew in their trailer. (This is followed up by Luger going "really? That sounds great!") 1 1 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-wrestling-stories/sting-dick-slater/ Nah, it was Sting after all. I still think beating up an Olympian-level amateur wrestler who was a known shooter and Eddie Graham's personal torturer is a bigger deal, but y'know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technico Support Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 3 hours ago, BloodyChamp said: Dick Slater beat Sting up for effin with Dark Journey who he was in love with. The details across shoots have been different. Some say Slater clocked him from behind then beat him up, some say he caught him coming out of the dumper and gave him a swirly, some say it was a straight up fight that Slater won Dark Journey? All those things were worth it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbarrie Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 On 3/3/2024 at 5:11 PM, Elsalvajeloco said: Owen is thigh slapping his ass off in WWF in 93/94 so that is way before Tajiri. Well, you want a nice loud sound when you kick the leg out of somebody's leg. 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said: https://prowrestlingstories.com/pro-wrestling-stories/sting-dick-slater/ Nah, it was Sting after all. I still think beating up an Olympian-level amateur wrestler who was a known shooter and Eddie Graham's personal torturer is a bigger deal, but y'know. If true, the story of high school senior Dick Slater beating up college football player John Matuzak during Spring Break is his best story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LP Steve Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 The version Roop tells on his podcast is way more plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt McGirt Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 What does he say about it? All I know is Terry Funk wrote in his book that he got his ass kicked. (Funk could have been being nice about a guy who imitated him his entire career, I suppose.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LP Steve Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Roop goes into a lot of detail in his January 31 podcast, but the very short version is nothing much happened. Confrontation in a Knoxville bar, words spoken, drinks thrown, broken up before it got serious. Funk wasn’t there, so his version obviously came from Slater. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) Hopefully we can get “Orphan from Uganda who is an asskicker” on this side of the ocean in a few years. Also Mr. Handsome. What a name. Edited March 6 by Cobra Commander 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I love the reaffirmation in the tweet just in case you didn't get the point. It's crazy that had Kamala not just been this randomly created character and a terrible inaccurate one since I don't think you would associate much of Uganda with The Gods Must Be Crazy type of tribalism, sub Saharan Africa would probably be a more realistic portrayal in line with what boxing had which is the truth is somewhere in the middle. Mickey Duff as trainer/co-promoter/manager for a lot of African fighters that he imported into the UK would have guys like Cornelius Boza-Edwards and John Mugabi (both Ugandan) along with guys from the neighboring countries to the opposite side of the continent. Sometimes their upbringings would line up with poverty and other things would you associate with third world/developing countries. Sometimes you get guys who seemed to be way, way more privileged than others and would be first class citizens here in the United States. People have to remember that the term "black" doesn't exist in sub-Saharan African countries cause everyone outside of South Africa is technically black in terms of pigmentation and melanin. Everything is defined by class much like it is Western society. So you have those guys and then later on you get wild shit like Kassim Ouma being a child soldier in Uganda and the story being so amazing that made a critically acclaimed documentary. With those stories, you can juxtapose them with other stories. For example, one of my favorites being Larry Merchant bringing up Ike Quartey (from Ghana) having a 77 year old (hell maybe she was 80) sister when Ike himself had to be like 33-35 years old at the time and one of the youngest of 20+ kids. That and having the tribal markings on his face. At no point did they try to make his story the same as everyone else. Now I get that pro wrestling itself largely was defined by painting with a broad brush especially during the Cold War. However, part of the reason most people love pro wrestling is you can differentiate the characters. The more you're able to do that, the more they can stand out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Given the respective gimmicks, it prob would have made more sense for the Zambuie Express to be from Uganda and namedropping Idi Amin than Kamala. I wonder if Lawler still has the book on African tribes / African art that supposedly inspired them to give Sugar Bear the gimmick. imagine if a Ugandan fighter reappropriated the Kamala paint and slapping his belly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 13 hours ago, odessasteps said: Given the respective gimmicks, it prob would have made more sense for the Zambuie Express to be from Uganda and namedropping Idi Amin than Kamala. I wonder if Lawler still has the book on African tribes / African art that supposedly inspired them to give Sugar Bear the gimmick. imagine if a Ugandan fighter reappropriated the Kamala paint and slapping his belly. For what reason? Someone from Lithuania like Mean Machine (Egidijus Kavaliauskas) isn't trying to be like Scott Simpson and doing a hideously atrocious accent he came with on the spot. It's a made up character that's an amalgamation of things that are loosely (and I mean loosely) based on truth and other things enhanced for pro wrestling. The savage part is one component but then at some point, he became half idiot savant cave man and became nonsensical in terms of what pro wrestling is. That just ratchets up the racism part quite a few notches. But that's not to say you cannot work in real life stuff. Hell, "Prince" Naseem Hamed brought all the pro wrestling pagentry (high tech gaudy entrances, spectacular light shows, magic flying carpets, popular dance music from the UK from the 90s blaring throughout the arena, ten plus minute ringwalks while his opponent waits in the ring, etc.) and played right in Islamophobia. That were multiple occasions he would stop Michael Buffer or whomever's intro and thank Allah and give whole speeches in Arabic. And that's pre 9/11. It was such that when he lost in April 2001 to Marco Antonio Barrera, the terror attacks in NYC/PA happen five months later, and he quietly retires from boxing after a botched comeback bid in 2002. Had he returned to the states after losing to Barrera later that year, his life was seriously in danger. It wasn't in his nature not to be a showman and it definitely wouldn't be above some crazy lunatic trying to make an attempt on his life. Now juxtapose that with Muhammad Hassan where WWE when the pressure got 1/10th as hot, they bailed IMMEDIATELY. Killed off the character and was never mentioned again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
username Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 38 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Now juxtapose that with Muhammad Hassan where WWE when the pressure got 1/10th as hot, they bailed IMMEDIATELY. Killed off the character and was never mentioned again. I think the network they were on (UPN?) put their foot down and more or less banned him from their airwaves, if that didn't happen I kinda think Vince woulda stuck by him for a while longer no matter how ill advised it would have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 11 minutes ago, username said: I think the network they were on (UPN?) put their foot down and more or less banned him from their airwaves, if that didn't happen I kinda think Vince woulda stuck by him for a while longer no matter how ill advised it would have been. I think there were multiple things at play. 1. The character not really getting over the way they thought it would. I think they thought it would be this groundbreaking, timely character but outside of Daivari, it was very one note. 2. Copani not being really into wrestling, which probably played into him not doing anything after the end of the character. That and not having much chemistry with anyone in the ring. 3. The London bombings taking place when they did right in the middle of the Taker program and WWE being too proud to basically change course, even though prior to the bombings it was going down a wrong path based on what was going on in the news day in and day out. If it wasn't what happened in London, it was going to be something else. I dunno if you remember the news cycle, but every other month there was something major going on regarding international terrorism and stuff adjacent to that. And from listening to Bruce trying to change the narrative everytime Hassan comes up on STW, they weren't ready for something like that and probably never will be if that is the mindset. Hell, didn't they loosely mock Antifa? How well did that go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 It likely didn't help to have an Italian guy playing the part. Maybe if Hassan and Divari were both Arab Americans, it had a better chance. But ultimately, with Vince et al in charge, it was always doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 It should have been two Arab-Americans. Daivari was by far the best part of the act. You can tell he put some real effort into it. Whereas the other guy you can tell was being led by WWE creative. You can do that if you're making a Chief Jay Strongbow. Real life issues playing out in real time? It's either going to be great or a big OOOF moment. This was the latter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I wonder what would have happened if they tried turning them babyface. I mean, I wouldn't trust creative with that ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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