Raw 12-2-13

[Cristobal]

It's funny, when Orton was doing his intense crazy thing during the contract thingy on RAW, his delivery was almost rhythm for rhythm the same as AJ Lee when she does her crazy talk thing.  It was kind of eerie how close it was.

 

Now, I'm not saying AJ is a shitty promo.  For a diva she's really good.  But on the scale of everyone to everyone "right there with AJ" is pretty far down the list.  And after over a decade as a top guy, Orton is right there with her.

I kinda agree with this, and I'd go farther and ask ahat's the last promo he did that was as good as AJ's "Pipe Bombshell" promo from August? It feels like it's been awhile.

[Niners Fan in CT]

 

 

Agreed on Punk. Love him or hate him, he's clearly about as big as a wrestler not named John Cena is gonna get in this era. He's doing great.

But he's also done as a main eventer.

Nah. Around WM 31 or 32 when they can no longer rely on 'Taker, Brock, Rock.... Cena vs. Punk is gonna main event one of those shows.

 

 

I will assume you mean if Roman Reigns is injured.

[Gonzalez]

 

 

I will assume you mean if Roman Reigns is injured. 

Or a bust.

[Brian Fowler]

Punk is probably done being a man event guy every month, but he's clearly gonna be in that Jericho type role where he will get main events.

[Patrick B.]

No, sorry.  WWE has convinced me that Daniel Bryan and C.M. Punk aren't worthy main-eventers.  Good day.

[Hooker]

It's funny, when Orton was doing his intense crazy thing during the contract thingy on RAW, his delivery was almost rhythm for rhythm the same as AJ Lee when she does her crazy talk thing.  It was kind of eerie how close it was.

 

Now, I'm not saying AJ is a shitty promo.  For a diva she's really good.  But on the scale of everyone to everyone "right there with AJ" is pretty far down the list.  And after over a decade as a top guy, Orton is right there with her.

AJ at least comes off as comfortable on the mic.  I agree that they both have that deliver-a-three-star-line-like--they-think-it-is-a-five-star-line deflating quality in their promos, but AJ seems to want to really want to kill it when she's on the mic and has the confidence / interest to change things up.  Randy Orton always gives me the vibe of a lazy sports star that's only half-interested every time he's on the mic.  It doesn't help that over the past three years, we've seen every shade of Orton from super-enthused (Smackdown run w/ Christian and Henry) to not-giving-a-single-shit (feuding with Kane), so it's pretty easy to tell how much effort Orton is giving on any single night.

[ebbie]

No, sorry.  WWE has convinced me that Daniel Bryan and C.M. Punk aren't worthy main-eventers.  Good day.

 

Yeah. I consider "main eventers" the group of people that make people want spend money on the product. What part of CM Punk's whiny/snarky ass and DB's Little Engine that Couldn't act would make people want to spend money? idk idk

 

 

It's funny, when Orton was doing his intense crazy thing during the contract thingy on RAW, his delivery was almost rhythm for rhythm the same as AJ Lee when she does her crazy talk thing.  It was kind of eerie how close it was.

 

Now, I'm not saying AJ is a shitty promo.  For a diva she's really good.  But on the scale of everyone to everyone "right there with AJ" is pretty far down the list.  And after over a decade as a top guy, Orton is right there with her.

AJ at least comes off as comfortable on the mic.  I agree that they both have that deliver-a-three-star-line-like--they-think-it-is-a-five-star-line deflating quality in their promos, but AJ seems to want to really want to kill it when she's on the mic and has the confidence / interest to change things up.  Randy Orton always gives me the vibe of a lazy sports star that's only half-interested every time he's on the mic.  It doesn't help that over the past three years, we've seen every shade of Orton from super-enthused (Smackdown run w/ Christian and Henry) to not-giving-a-single-shit (feuding with Kane), so it's pretty easy to tell how much effort Orton is giving on any single night.

 

 

Orton and AJ have the same damn problem: More concern with being in character than getting their damn point across. I read somewhere "Look, there is Randy Orton doing Randy Orton things to prove that he is Randy Orton." as far as the review of Orton in that contract signing. Made perfect sense to me. AJ is suppose to be crazy or whatever and her body language is too distracting to me. I just want to scream "Just say the fucking words and get on with it." when she cuts a promo.

 

I feel like too many people over think their promos these days. Cody Rhodes is terrible at reciting lines, but have him talk to Goldust and it's a different Cody. He doesn't sound like he is trying to impress anyone nor does he sound like he wishes he had cue cards some where to stare at.

[Hooker]

Orton and AJ have the same damn problem: More concern with being in character than getting their damn point across.

Oh, I agree.  They're both bad about that.  But:

 

1) That's hardly a problem exclusive to them.  I would say that the worst offender is CM Punk, whose angry, run-on sentence style completely overshadows the substance of his promos, which are usually as thin as "I am going to beat you up, Paul Heyman."  But others include Ryback and (I know I'm about to catch shit on this, but please, everyone, try to sympathize with six-months-from-now-you who is going to be complaining about him) Bray Wyatt.

 

2) I think the problem stems from not having an ear for poetic rhythm and speech.  I remember a part in Foley's first book where he wrote a promo out for himself (I think this was around ECW) and showed it to someone else, who praised it, but Foley explained that it was terrible (or would have been terrible; can't remember if he actually read it) because it was written for the page and not for speech.  In print, the objectives are to try and be compelling in composition, to continue engaging with content, and be as tight and terse while still fully explaining what you mean, among other things.  In speech, probably the most important thing is to match your emotional content to the important parts of what you're saying and gauging the audience's interest on the fly. AJ is still pretty new to all of this (and young), and while that's not a total excuse, it's still worth remembering.  Orton, however, has been around forever and is not likely to improve on his one-gear promos.

[Patrick B.]

So as much as I still enjoy it on some level, I should probably quit watching if the people I like aren't Best For Business.

[Gonzalez]

 

 

run-on sentence style

 

Don't blame the wrestlers. Blame the "WHAT?" chant.

[Hooker]

I'm not blaming the wrestlers.  I'm blaming one specific wrestler.  The one you bear the flag of.

[Gonzalez]

You mean one of the best talkers in the company? 

[MORELOCK]

The "what" chant is perpetuated by the stupid constant dramatic pauses written into every promo, not the run-on sentence style.

[Brian Fowler]

AJ Lee remains my vote for best promo in the company, so I'm mostly just confused right now.

[ebbie]

2) I think the problem stems from not having an ear for poetic rhythm and speech.  I remember a part in Foley's first book where he wrote a promo out for himself (I think this was around ECW) and showed it to someone else, who praised it, but Foley explained that it was terrible (or would have been terrible; can't remember if he actually read it) because it was written for the page and not for speech.  In print, the objectives are to try and be compelling in composition, to continue engaging with content, and be as tight and terse while still fully explaining what you mean, among other things.  In speech, probably the most important thing is to match your emotional content to the important parts of what you're saying and gauging the audience's interest on the fly. AJ is still pretty new to all of this (and young), and while that's not a total excuse, it's still worth remembering.  Orton, however, has been around forever and is not likely to improve on his one-gear promos.

 

 

It all comes down to if you are a natural or not. I think that was the great part about NXT early on. Other than DB, none of those 7 guys had experience wrestling in front of a big ass crowd. But that didn't matter because it didn't take the snarkiest worshipper of Da Meltz to see who had intangibles that you can't teach or learn. As shitty that Otunga was at delivering, he was right about moves being learned and taught. Besides, too many guys get too many chances to cut promos.

 

And since I cried about him in the SD thread.. Wade Barrett gets my vote for best promo. I would take his promo work three years (damn it..) over anything since. Didn't do anything "ground breaking" or "pipe bomb-ey." He did what has worked in wrestling for-fucking-ever.. "Act like an asshole that people actually hate." And he got the most heat a heel has gotten in years and Cena's reactions for 6-7 months weren't of that bullshit mixed reaction.

[Niners Fan in CT]

AJ Lee remains my vote for best promo in the company, so I'm mostly just confused right now.

 

She's okay but I don't love her angry promos. She puts emphasis on words that don't need it.

[Hooker]

And since I cried about him in the SD thread.. Wade Barrett gets my vote for best promo.

Something we can agree on.  Barrett may not be the absolute best (Vince himself is pretty fantastic, and then there's Dusty), but he's one of them.  During the Nexus angle, when Cena got that ruling that he couldn't attack anyone in Nexus (or maybe just Barrett), they did the thing where Barrett tried to taunt Cena into attacking him.  Now, that all sounds pretty boilerplate, and it is, but Barrett took that turd and created a pretty engaging segment out of it, where you could empathize with Cena's position (typically unthinkable), understand what Barrett was trying to do, understood all the components of the storyline going on, etc.  Orton in the same role would have had none of that going on.

 

I really wish they would shoot Barrett back up to the main event, lack of wrestling talent or not.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Everyone is 2008 Chris Jericho. AJ just happens to be the most annoying.

[Bear Wyatt]

I liked AJ's whole "I'm the only real wrestler among the Divas" gimmick better when Beth Phoenix was doing it and rag-dolling the other girls.

 

[Charlie M.]

So a bunch of untrained actors trying to give monologues longer than what most real actors do in multiple takes results in shitty boring promos?

 

The best thing you can do is find a gimmick/crutch that obscures the fact that you can't really cut a great promo.

[Roman]

So a bunch of untrained actors trying to give monologues longer than what most real actors do in multiple takes results in shitty boring promos?

 

The best thing you can do is find a gimmick/crutch that obscures the fact that you can't really cut a great promo.

 

Everyone takes a vow of silence?

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

So a bunch of untrained actors trying to give monologues longer than what most real actors do in multiple takes results in shitty boring promos?

 

The best thing you can do is find a gimmick/crutch that obscures the fact that you can't really cut a great promo.

We're talking about manners of speech, not ability to act.

[Charlie M.]

It's the same thing.  We're not talking about people speaking naturally, they're doing lines.

[piranesi]

I don't know what is stopping them from going back to screaming insane 80s cocaine promos.  Everyone loves those.  I think Bryan cam close a couple of times and it was pretty great.

 

They don't have to be Warrior, for Christ's sake, but they are supposed to be giant rampaging barely literate monsters, not Gary Oldman.

 

 

Just do this:

 

LEMMETELLYOUIMGONNARIPHIMAPARTHETHINKSHE CAN GET AWAYWITHTHAT?I"LLTEARHISHEARTOUT AND FEEDITTOHISCHILDRENNNNN WHENI GETMYHANDS ONYOUORTON I"M GONNAKILL THELIVINGCRAP OUT OF YOUR SPIRITBODYCONNECTION>

 

I AM GOING TO KILL YOU TODEATHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

and run away from the camera.

[Roman]

The closest we got to that in recent times was Paul Heyman: