AEW Dynamite - 3/29/2023

[Just Dave]

39 minutes ago, Brandon Bones said:

Cole doesn’t rank very high in my wrestling priority list.  But I see no need to be fatalist like Cole doesn’t have something to offer.  He totally does.  Plus, I could see him and Britt eventually getting over in reality land.  

That’s fair. It comes from a place of wanting to see AEW succeed as fully as possible. There’s a place for adam Cole on the big stage. It just isn’t as a centerpiece, especially when the same company employs Ricky Starks, Jungle Boy and Adam Page. It just doesn’t feel like Tony can be honest with himself about what adam Cole is/isn’t.

[zendragon]

54 minutes ago, Brandon Bones said:

Cole doesn’t rank very high in my wrestling priority list.  But I see no need to be fatalist like Cole doesn’t have something to offer.  He totally does.  Plus, I could see him and Britt eventually getting over in reality land.  

Of day he’s like Jarrett he gets a reaction from the live audience but he’s clearly it some who should be the focal point of a promotion 

[A_K]

18 minutes ago, just drew said:

That’s fair. It comes from a place of wanting to see AEW succeed as fully as possible. There’s a place for adam Cole on the big stage. It just isn’t as a centerpiece, especially when the same company employs Ricky Starks, Jungle Boy and Adam Page. It just doesn’t feel like Tony can be honest with himself about what adam Cole is/isn’t.

If Cole is bad, then 'Jungle Boy' doesn't even merit mention. Equivalent to WWF seeing Scotty 2 Hotty as the answer to their main-event ratings woes in the late 90s. Khan's propensity to double-down on bad decisions is just .. bizarre. Jurassic Express was fine in-of-itself as a comedy tag team: the Christian angle sunk like a led balloon, and none of those 3 have any place as singles talent on national television, never mind this far up the card. Compared to what's going on over at WWE it looks like they have a bunch of children running around the ring /talking on the mic - and not in a 90s WWF Triple H/Rock/Edge/Orton etc. manner.

Edited March 31, 2023 by A_K

[Just Dave]

9 minutes ago, A_K said:

If Cole is bad, then 'Jungle Boy' doesn't even merit mention. Equivalent to WWF seeing Scotty 2 Hotty as the answer to their main-event ratings woes in the late 90s. Khan's propensity to double-down on bad decisions is just .. bizarre. Jurassic Express was fine in-of-itself as a comedy tag team: the Christian angle sunk like a led balloon, and none of those 3 have any place as singles talent on national television, never mind this far up the card. Compared to what's going on over at WWE it looks like they have a bunch of children running around the ring /talking on the mic - and not in a 90s WWF Triple H/Rock/Edge/Orton etc. manner.

We might just have to agree to disagree on jungle boy. I really like his Ricky Steamboat babyface energy. I think he’s able to connect with crowds through his innovative spots & work style. He also seems to retain viewers pretty well. The christian thing was gangbusters until cage messed his shoulder all up. I dig him. 

[Brandon Bones]

I’d add to the Jungle Boy point.  Hot boys sell tickets.  This kid is generationally hot boy too.  A unicorn of shirtless photos and t-shirt sales.  Bieber this Jungle Boy.

[A_K]

10 minutes ago, just drew said:

We might just have to agree to disagree on jungle boy. I really like his Ricky Steamboat babyface energy. I think he’s able to connect with crowds through his innovative spots & work style. He also seems to retain viewers pretty well. The christian thing was gangbusters until cage messed his shoulder all up. I dig him. 

Happy to disagree re: taste - but they dropped viewers in the lead-in and following quarter of his appearance this week. There's no data showing Jungle Boy is a draw. Optics are bad. Casual viewers are tuning in to see guys who are giving up almost half-a-foot to their equivalents in the other promotion, without even trying to compare 'Jungle Boy's mic work w/ Roman/Rhodes/Zayn/Owens/Usos etc. They seriously fluffed Kingston + Wardlow who should be legitimate main eventers with ready-made storylines to run at the top of the card, and are now compounding it with the subsequent poor decisions.

 

EDIT: Re: 'hot boys sell tickets' -- if the base ratings numbers have been bad for AEW, the demo has been absolutely diabolical. I think they may have literally slashed it in half year over year at this point? The youth are not tuning into this stuff. This is a kid running around the top of the card in Tarzan trunks w/ a crazy hairstyle. Kind of laughable, and not in a good way.

Edited March 31, 2023 by A_K

[John from Cincinnati]

Be happy: Kingston is going to be in a main event tonight! 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I'm surprised that the vibe in here seems to be the next PPV main is going to be MJF defending against one of JB/Darby/Sami. I assumed they were setting the table for a four way.

I'd love to see them re-do the Flair/Sting/Luger/Muta ironman series.

Sami drops all three matches, and it plays into whatever he's doing with Garcia/Jericho.

JB beats Sami, scores an upset win against MJF but gets comprehensively beaten by Darby.

Darby beats Sami and JB, but goes to a draw against MJF. Rematch at the PPV.

Think there's value in Darby winning and his first defense is vs Sting in his retirement match. Then you run back a Jack Perry rematch. But I'm sure they've got bigger plans for MJF than that.

[DreamBroken]

On 3/30/2023 at 11:07 AM, AxB said:

The “Defending the TNT Title takes a toll” storyline has been a thing almost as long as the TNT title has existed, so Orange starting to show weakness makes sense.

I almost thought this at first too, but this is the International title! Seems like the same idea though, but I'm here for as many Orange defenses as we can get. 16 and counting!

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

12 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I'm surprised that the vibe in here seems to be the next PPV main is going to be MJF defending against one of JB/Darby/Sami. I assumed they were setting the table for a four way.

I'd love to see them re-do the Flair/Sting/Luger/Muta ironman series.

Sami drops all three matches, and it plays into whatever he's doing with Garcia/Jericho.

JB beats Sami, scores an upset win against MJF but gets comprehensively beaten by Darby.

Darby beats Sami and JB, but goes to a draw against MJF. Rematch at the PPV.

Think there's value in Darby winning and his first defense is vs Sting in his retirement match. Then you run back a Jack Perry rematch. But I'm sure they've got bigger plans for MJF than that.

I don’t see any way they can try having Sammy or JB main event the PPV. The buy rate would be laughable if they did.

Your idea of a four way seems possible as does Adam Cole vs MJF (I’m assuming they run through Cole vs Jericho by the end of April). 

If they really wanted to get some buys they’d have the four way on Dynamite, and have MJF injure Darby then book MJF vs Sting at Double or Nothing. Stings first (and last) shot at the AEW title would be a good draw. 

[Brandon Bones]

13 hours ago, A_K said:

Happy to disagree re: taste - but they dropped viewers in the lead-in and following quarter of his appearance this week. There's no data showing Jungle Boy is a draw. Optics are bad. Casual viewers are tuning in to see guys who are giving up almost half-a-foot to their equivalents in the other promotion, without even trying to compare 'Jungle Boy's mic work w/ Roman/Rhodes/Zayn/Owens/Usos etc. They seriously fluffed Kingston + Wardlow who should be legitimate main eventers with ready-made storylines to run at the top of the card, and are now compounding it with the subsequent poor decisions.

 

EDIT: Re: 'hot boys sell tickets' -- if the base ratings numbers have been bad for AEW, the demo has been absolutely diabolical. I think they may have literally slashed it in half year over year at this point? The youth are not tuning into this stuff. This is a kid running around the top of the card in Tarzan trunks w/ a crazy hairstyle. Kind of laughable, and not in a good way.

Did my post read as if I thought that was something AEW WAS doing?  Because that isn’t what I meant.  I was suggesting they push JB (and probably a few others) in that light.  So as to appeal to those demographics.

[Belgian_Waffle]

1 hour ago, LF2 said:

I don’t see any way they can try having Sammy or JB main event the PPV. The buy rate would be laughable if they did.

 

I don't think the main event in itself makes much of a difference with AEW ppv buys. They didn't even have an All Out main event until about a week before the show last year and it still did decent (with a whack undercard). For better or worse their ppvs are sold on the strength of the brand at any given time. 

That being said, and as someone who genuinely thinks Jungle Boy kind of sucks, there's a much more viable route to building a hot ppv main event with him and MJF as opposed to Sammy, who is probably still six months to a year away from being rehabbed as a babyface (if that's even possible at this point). 

I've argued this point to death but the only sure way to actually kill this company is to not put young homegrown talent in ppv main events. If the only guys allowed to main event a pov remain MJF, Hangman, and then all the ex WWE guys like Danielson, Moxley, etc, then there's nowhere for AEW to grow, and you've educated the fans to support the status quo and deny the possibility of new names ascending. Forget the austerity booking in WCW; look at how fast the Attitude Era fizzled out once they ran every possible variation of Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker, Angle. Building new stars isn't always "organic" or pretty, sometimes you have to sacrifice 5% of a buyrate here and there in order to establish a changing of the guard. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

1 hour ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

I don't think the main event in itself makes much of a difference with AEW ppv buys. They didn't even have an All Out main event until about a week before the show last year and it still did decent (with a whack undercard). For better or worse their ppvs are sold on the strength of the brand at any given time. 

That being said, and as someone who genuinely thinks Jungle Boy kind of sucks, there's a much more viable route to building a hot ppv main event with him and MJF as opposed to Sammy, who is probably still six months to a year away from being rehabbed as a babyface (if that's even possible at this point). 

I've argued this point to death but the only sure way to actually kill this company is to not put young homegrown talent in ppv main events. If the only guys allowed to main event a pov remain MJF, Hangman, and then all the ex WWE guys like Danielson, Moxley, etc, then there's nowhere for AEW to grow, and you've educated the fans to support the status quo and deny the possibility of new names ascending. Forget the austerity booking in WCW; look at how fast the Attitude Era fizzled out once they ran every possible variation of Austin, Rock, HHH, Taker, Angle. Building new stars isn't always "organic" or pretty, sometimes you have to sacrifice 5% of a buyrate here and there in order to establish a changing of the guard. 

After reading this I agree with you. They do need to cycle in more guys to main event PPVs. The only issue is who is anywhere near ready beyond Darby, Starks, and JB? You gave the best reason Sammy isn’t, I don’t think Hobbs or Wardlow are either with their current booking, and Daniel Garcia won’t be in that spot for awhile (especially with MJF holding the belt). 

I kind of wonder if they won’t do a big falls count anywhere match to headline with the BCC vs the Elite, and the winning team gets the man advantage in Blood and Guts.

[Ramo2653]

7 hours ago, LF2 said:

I don’t see any way they can try having Sammy or JB main event the PPV. The buy rate would be laughable if they did.

 

I would assume they wouldn't run that as the main and would go to BCC vs Elite in either a cage or a falls count anywhere match. 

[AxB]

6 hours ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

I've argued this point to death but the only sure way to actually kill this company is to not put young homegrown talent in ppv main events. If the only guys allowed to main event a pov remain MJF, Hangman, and then all the ex WWE guys like Danielson, Moxley, etc, then there's nowhere for AEW to grow, and you've educated the fans to support the status quo and deny the possibility of new names ascending. 

 Kenny Omega main evented PPVs. Eddie Kingston main evented a PPV. And saying they need young, homegrown talent to headline PPVs and listing MJF and Hangman as examples of how they aren't doing that, is kind of back to front.

[Dolphman 3000]

 

[zendragon]

On 3/31/2023 at 3:41 PM, just drew said:

We might just have to agree to disagree on jungle boy. I really like his Ricky Steamboat babyface energy. I think he’s able to connect with crowds through his innovative spots & work style. He also seems to retain viewers pretty well. The christian thing was gangbusters until cage messed his shoulder all up. I dig him. 

Jungle Boy might very well be like Ricky Steamboat in that yes he has the inring charisma and babyface fire but not someone who you can build around as your top guy long term. Steamboats high water mark was chasing Flair and Savage