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THE FALCON AND THE WINTER SOLDIER (Many Spoilers HERE~!)


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I'm with Natural in not liking episode 5 much outside of the Sam/Bucky interactions. 

I've got pretty mixed feelings on the show overall. I don't like how they've handled the Flag Smashers and it seems like overall they're trying to tell too many stories at once. 

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I can’t remember if I saw this here or on Twitter, but there was originally a virus plot line for the Flag Smashers, presumably involving them wiping out half of life on earth. Obviously they took that out, but I figure that’s why their plot has been a little off.

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I feel like “a little off” is being generous.  It’s been a muddled mess, pretty much since the beginning.  Karli is a horribly written character (and, frankly, not well performed either).  If they really had to retrofit a completely different story for her/them into the overall arc pretty late in the game, though, it would at least make sense why.

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Yeah, the virus thing would have been dumb but at least it would have been thematically appropriate.

I actually think they could have fixed it fairly easily by moving the Patch Act/clearing the camps stuff up to episode 2 or 3 and having that be the trigger for the Flag Smashers to start bombings. At least then they would have some kind of tangible motive instead of just Karli being sad.

And at some point we need to talk about how dirty they did poor Battlestar.

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1. I'm glad there isn't a virus plotline.

2. I haven't seen a single reputable outlet report the virus subplot. It's a rumored subplot. 

3. I think Power Broker should've been set up as the real villain for this season, but it seems like they are saving that character up for later. Long been one of the drawbacks of the MCU. Case in point, never wanting Tony Stark to meet or interact with the real Mandarin.

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I’ve never heard of the virus storyline, all I ever heard in the months leading up to the show was that the Flag Smashers planned on a setting off a Terrigen Mist bomb. Which I guess could be what the “virus” was.

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3 hours ago, Casey said:

I’ve never heard of the virus storyline, all I ever heard in the months leading up to the show was that the Flag Smashers planned on a setting off a Terrigen Mist bomb. Which I guess could be what the “virus” was.

Interesting but unfortunately would've been a rehash of Agents of SHIELD doing the same subplot. So it's for the better they avoided that as well, otherwise that would've been a dumb hashtag talking point on social media.

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Yeah but no one cares what Twitter thinks. Plus I don’t know how else you set up Kamala Khan being an Inhuman. It’s kind of integral to the character.

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17 hours ago, Zimbra said:

I'm with Natural in not liking episode 5 much outside of the Sam/Bucky interactions. 

I've got pretty mixed feelings on the show overall. I don't like how they've handled the Flag Smashers and it seems like overall they're trying to tell too many stories at once. 

Cheers, @Zimbra. I agree with your critique. What helped WandaVision was how different it was, speculating what was happening. Made it stand out. That's something which might work against later shows as it has The Falcon and The Winter Soldier. Don't get me wrong, I'm still enjoying it.

12 hours ago, EVA said:

I feel like “a little off” is being generous.  It’s been a muddled mess, pretty much since the beginning.  Karli is a horribly written character (and, frankly, not well performed either).  If they really had to retrofit a completely different story for her/them into the overall arc pretty late in the game, though, it would at least make sense why.

Yeah, that's the weakest part of the show.

4 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Interesting but unfortunately would've been a rehash of Agents of SHIELD doing the same subplot. So it's for the better they avoided that as well, otherwise that would've been a dumb hashtag talking point on social media.

One of the few Inhumans things I enjoyed, the second season of Agents of SHIELD. Ms. Marvel the other.

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5 hours ago, Casey said:

Yeah but no one cares what Twitter thinks. Plus I don’t know how else you set up Kamala Khan being an Inhuman. It’s kind of integral to the character.

Other than occasionally interacting with Lockjaw, why can’t she just get hit by cosmic rays? Her getting powers is integral. This isn’t a “Matt Murdock jumps in front of a truck to save a guy” sort of origin. Her being an Inhuman is definitely not an integral part of her character.

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It appears the virus storyline theory originated from Murphy’s Multiverse, a scoopz website without a ton of credibility, so you may want to take that with the appropriate salt level.  But, regardless of why, there does seem to be compelling evidence that a significant portion of the plot of the show has been cobbled together using ADR and various editing tricks.

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59 minutes ago, EVA said:

It appears the virus storyline theory originated from Murphy’s Multiverse, a scoopz website without a ton of credibility, so you may want to take that with the appropriate salt level.  But, regardless of why, there does seem to be compelling evidence that a significant portion of the plot of the show has been cobbled together using ADR and various editing tricks.

While it’s obviously not evidence of the plot, the season’s production company was Pandemic Productions. Another scoopz type site I found had a description of the virus subplot that sounded like it could be a Terrigen Mist bomb type “device.”  
 

The Flag Smashers stated goal on the show is to have things go back the way they were during the blip, yet all they’ve really done is help refugees and blow up some stuff, nothing that would advance their goal.

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Man, I don't know, I still really like the show. To me, it feels pretty straightforward:

  • The Flag Smashers want to go back to removing borders, but they're going about it in a very extremist way.
  • Falcon and Bucky want to stop them, but Falcon also gives up the shield and Bucky wants him to have it back.
  • The US government appoints a new Captain America and gives him the shield.
  • Bucky tries to give Falcon a history lesson about super soldiers.
  • Bucky busts out Zemo to help them track down the Flag Smashers because it all smells vaguely of some Hydra bullshit.
  • Falcon and Bucky have run ins with Walker and Battlestar while they're in pursuit of the Flag Smashers.
  • Zemo escapes, Walker snaps, Sam gets the shield back, and Bucky and the Dora Milaje re-capture Zemo.
  • The Flag Smashers, after numerous losses and backed into a corner by the Power Broker because they lost the remaining super soldier serum, look to be making their most extreme move yet.
  • Falcon and Bucky know they have to stop whatever it is they're going to do while Cap likely plots against Falcon, Bucky, Karli, and anyone that gets in his way.

It certainly lacks the LOST-esque weekly discussion about what is happening and what could happen, but I think it's still fun enough to watch.

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10 hours ago, EVA said:

It appears the virus storyline theory originated from Murphy’s Multiverse, a scoopz website without a ton of credibility, so you may want to take that with the appropriate salt level.  But, regardless of why, there does seem to be compelling evidence that a significant portion of the plot of the show has been cobbled together using ADR and various editing tricks.

Charles Murphy actually has gotten a lot of scoops, I wouldn’t say he’s unreliable or anything.

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After seeing Sam's training montage with the shield, my 4-year-old son was begging for me to get him one.  So, I go on Amazon and find a little toy shield for him.  I ordered it last Saturday, and it said it'd be in on Wednesday.  It was torture for him waiting that long.  Yesterday (Wednesday), he wakes up and the first words out of his mouth are, "My shield is coming today!"  He checks the front porch before school, but it's not there yet.  It times out perfectly, and is delivered right as he pulls in the driveway from school.  We get it inside, open the box and there it is!  Before we can even see what's happening, he runs to the front door, opens it and throws his shield outside.  Then, he starts crying when it doesn't fly back to him.  Poor guy.  I know he was totally picturing himself throwing it and doing flips like Sam and catching it.  He settled down after we explained that it's not made out of the same stuff as Cap's real shield, so it won't do the same things.  He's cool with it now.  He hasn't put it down since then.

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1 hour ago, Log said:

After seeing Sam's training montage with the shield, my 4-year-old son was begging for me to get him one.  So, I go on Amazon and find a little toy shield for him.  I ordered it last Saturday, and it said it'd be in on Wednesday.  It was torture for him waiting that long.  Yesterday (Wednesday), he wakes up and the first words out of his mouth are, "My shield is coming today!"  He checks the front porch before school, but it's not there yet.  It times out perfectly, and is delivered right as he pulls in the driveway from school.  We get it inside, open the box and there it is!  Before we can even see what's happening, he runs to the front door, opens it and throws his shield outside.  Then, he starts crying when it doesn't fly back to him.  Poor guy.  I know he was totally picturing himself throwing it and doing flips like Sam and catching it.  He settled down after we explained that it's not made out of the same stuff as Cap's real shield, so it won't do the same things.  He's cool with it now.  He hasn't put it down since then.

Aww bless. Thanks for sharing.

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6 hours ago, Log said:

After seeing Sam's training montage with the shield, my 4-year-old son was begging for me to get him one.  So, I go on Amazon and find a little toy shield for him.  I ordered it last Saturday, and it said it'd be in on Wednesday.  It was torture for him waiting that long.  Yesterday (Wednesday), he wakes up and the first words out of his mouth are, "My shield is coming today!"  He checks the front porch before school, but it's not there yet.  It times out perfectly, and is delivered right as he pulls in the driveway from school.  We get it inside, open the box and there it is!  Before we can even see what's happening, he runs to the front door, opens it and throws his shield outside.  Then, he starts crying when it doesn't fly back to him.  Poor guy.  I know he was totally picturing himself throwing it and doing flips like Sam and catching it.  He settled down after we explained that it's not made out of the same stuff as Cap's real shield, so it won't do the same things.  He's cool with it now.  He hasn't put it down since then.

I want to find Log some vibranium now.

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Just finished the season finale, and it was great. Sam in his new Captain America garb looks so good teams with Bucky and Walker to stop the attack on the GRC by the Flagsmashers, the highlight was Sam in an aerial fight with a helicopter. Sharon kills Karli. Sam let's Walker go for helping out via a knowing nod between them.

The epilogue was my favourite part though it was moving specifically Bucky telling the neighbours Dad that he killed his son as the Winter Soldier, Sam takes Isaiah Bradley to the Smithsonian museum to see a statue of Isaiah and Bucky has dropped his book to the therapist with all the names crossed off. John Walker is kitted out as the US Agent.

I will say Sharon Carter's treatment with be divisive and the majority won't approve. There's a post credits scene as Carter is pardoned with an opening to her old department. Carter makes a phone call saying she now has full access to things and line up the buyers. Sharon as a Skrull surely?

Edited by The Natural
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Not only did they marginalize Sharon Carter in the MCU, they committed character assassination against her. And no, I don't approve if this is indeed Sharon. 

Other than that I enjoyed the episode. John Walker's not really a bad guy, he's just a meathead. Easily manipulated. 

The scenes with Anthony Mackie and Carl Lumbly were really good. 

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On 4/2/2021 at 10:52 AM, Fighting a man with a perm said:

Was getting some red flags from Sharon in this episode, any chance she's the power broker?? I know they like to switch things up in the MCU. 

 

Well I'm feeling very smug this morning 😁

Much like Wandavision, I found myself a little disappointed at the lack of very obvious links to future films/serues. Sure, there's some little hints and teases, but nothing as obvious as a hammer appearing in the desert at the end of Iron Man. But that's just me, and hasn't ruined my enjoyment of the series. 

I dug the switch to "Captain America and the Winter Soldier" at the end of the credits. 

Wyatt Russell brought it again this episode, but also impressed by how well handled Sam's talk to the Senators was, they didn't whitewash or go too happyclappy which was nice. 

Roll on Loki now 😁

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