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THE FALCON AND THE WINTER SOLDIER (Many Spoilers HERE~!)


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I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if Sharon was a Skrull, but I really think she's just been corrupted by power for the past 5 or so years. Plus I don't know that anyone is going to care that Sharon Carter the Power Broker from a show that aired in 2021 (Invasion films next week (?), releases mid-next yearish) is a Skrull, or if they'll even remember why or what she did in this show by then. Ultimately, I'm okay with this turn, at least it gives her some character other than "blonde SHIELD agent related to Peggy". Now she's actually a D-list villain. I suspect a Season 2 is coming our way, which was always way more likely than a show like WandaVision getting another one (which it isn't).

Saw the new Cap and US Agent suits in toy leaks a few weeks back, and earlier tonight on Reddit in the case of Cap. I like them both.

I guess what I'm left wondering now is what happens with US Agent and Zemo. Walker isn't exactly played as a bad guy, I mean his actions are, but the entire episode he teamed up with Cap & Bucky, and then that final scene of his was played for laughs basically, with him being all excited and shit. Valentina is shades of grey right now I guess. Interesting that she knew Zemo had that transport blew up, too.

All in all, this was an enjoyable season. I don't even think I can rank this show versus WandaVision, because they're WILDLY different shows that offered different things.

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Out of the MCU shows and seasons I've seen, I'd have the following over The Falcon and The Winter Soldier...

1. Daredevil Season 1 (2015).

2. Daredevil Season 3 (2018).

3. Agent Carter Season 1 (2015).

4. WandaVision (2021).

5. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Season 4 (2016-2017).

Just outside my top five comes The Falcon and The Winter Soldier (2021) and behind that, Jessica Jones Season 1 (2015).

Edited by The Natural
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I liked all the non-Flag Smashers parts, and the title reveal at the end was very cool.  I too was expecting a Sharon Skrull reveal, but now I’m wondering if she isn’t going to end up playing something similar to the Norman Osborne role in Secret Invasion as the bad guy who saves the day and gets more power because of it.  That, or Sharon is a Season 2 thing and wouldn’t be featured much in the movies beyond “hey, how did this bad guy get these weapons?!?” 
 

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Okay... If Sharon was the Power Broker, why would she have led Sam, Bucky and Zemo to the super solider doctor? And then let Zemo kill him? Am I applying too much logic...

Edited by keith_h
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9 minutes ago, keith_h said:

Okay... If Sharon was the Power Broker, why would she have led Sam, Bucky and Zemo to the super solider doctor? And then let Zemo kill him? Am I applying too much logic...

Wild speculation:  She knew Sam would try to keep Karli and/or the other Super Soliders alive and she could get another Doctor to reverse engineer the serum from one of them.  Or she has another source, or... fuck, I dunno.

 

MCU has enough goodwill built up that I'm more than willing to let it play out.

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Sharon didn’t go into the scientist’s lab until she had to tell them it was time to leave. She either didn’t think Zemo would kill the scientist or at that point was ok with him being killed to protect her secret.

Also at that point, she presumably thought she had a decent bit of serum left, and the scarcity would drive up the price of the remaining vials. She doesn’t appear to be a full blown megalomaniac, and probably realizes it’s bad for her business to have too many super soldiers out and about.

Edited by JonnyLaw
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My pet peeve plot hole is that all series they were like "We can't track the Flag Smashers!" and then in episode five they had the breakthrough that if they looked at the traffic from the Flag Smasher's app, which apparently millions of people use and the protagonists have had access to since literally the first episode, they can figure out where the Flag Smasher's are going.

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This episode felt like a new writer was brought in to wrap everything up and their politics were a whoooooole bunch more conservative than the original writer.

 

Sam's two speeches were so corny and naive that June Cleaver would've been ashamed to recite them.

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So, since she was supposed to debut in Black Widow, it's safe to assume The Contessa is compiling a team, no?

Overall liked the whole season, but I can understand people's complaints. Sam's monologue to the senators was odd but still leftist enough to hopefully piss off some people ? Sharon being a baddy also feels wrong, but I'm looking forward to where it goes.

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1 hour ago, Casey said:

Hot off the heels of the finale - Hollywood Reporter is... errr, reporting, that Captain America 4 has been greenlit.

Sam and Bucky vs Serpent Society plz.

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  • Overall liked the episode fine.
  • The speech was weird. I thought he was getting somewhere with it but it just ended with a sort of "You're powerful. Think about why people do terrorist things in the first place! Be compassionate" vibe which wasn't at all pointed enough. Maybe it's not Captain America's job to find solutions but to make sure other people find solutions, but ...
  • 100% fine with heel Sharon. She never really resembled comics Sharon. Ruthless Revenge Vancamp is fine, but (and I never say this) they'd probably get more mileage out of her a Skrull, but that'd be a much bigger disservice to the character than having her legitimately wronged and acting accordingly.
  • Walker got off a little easy, but his comeuppance is probably to come as he's put into shitty Dark Avengers territory.
  • Zemo's come out of this looking great, though, which is weird. I thought Zemo was one of the most interesting characters in Marvel history around Thunderbolts #100 because he had all that baggage and was trying to be a hero in his own, completely skewed way, but I can only imagine where they'll go with him next here, as it's still quite different.
  • Poor Batroc. I guess that's as good as we could possibly expect though.
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I enjoyed the finale. All the action was nice, and I dug the post-climax stuff with Sam talking Isiah, Bucky finishing off his book, etc. Will be interesting to see what is done with Sharon as the Power Broker. I'm kind of good either way if she ends up a legit turned or a skrull.

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Karli and the Flag Smashers. Show's weakest link. Some of the worst MCU villains ever. Said group needed a montage or a few scenes to show what's happened to them than brief repetitive exposition. Malekith was probably the bottom of the barrel.

Edited by The Natural
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14 hours ago, keith_h said:

Okay... If Sharon was the Power Broker, why would she have led Sam, Bucky and Zemo to the super solider doctor? And then let Zemo kill him? Am I applying too much logic...

This is the other thing that bothers me. For Sharon to be the power broker, it makes no sense she gave up chemist so easily like that. Especially with a volatile component like Baron Zemo in play. 

The only way I will accept this outcome is if its a Skrull.

Otherwise, I'm sorry, this writing is absolute trash. 

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I mentioned this on Twitter, and I know this isn't the case, but I feel like you could wrap up Bucky's MCU story with that finale. It brought him full circle into redemption,and I'm not sure how much more you get out of the character.  I thought Sebastian Stan brought it the entire series and had a really satisfactory arc.

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17 hours ago, keith_h said:

Okay... If Sharon was the Power Broker, why would she have led Sam, Bucky and Zemo to the super solider doctor? And then let Zemo kill him? Am I applying too much logic...

 

3 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

This is the other thing that bothers me. For Sharon to be the power broker, it makes no sense she gave up chemist so easily like that. Especially with a volatile component like Baron Zemo in play. 

The only way I will accept this outcome is if its a Skrull.

Otherwise, I'm sorry, this writing is absolute trash. 

Its a fair question that was kind of answered with the post credits scene. The pardon was far more important to her because it gave her a lot more room to move freely around the world and access to government intel and tech. Secrets are arguably more valuable than weapons. Beyond that none of them realized what Zemo was planning in executing the scientist and at the time Sharon had half a dozen or so super soldiers and serum running around that she could recover, study, and have remade by another scientist. The pardon was the most important thing.

That said, I do hope she ends up a skrull since it would add another layer to it.

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On 4/24/2021 at 1:05 AM, The Natural said:

Karli and the Flag Smashers. Show's weakest link. Some of the worst MCU villains ever. Said group needed a montage or a few scenes to show what's happened to them than brief repetitive exposition. Malekith was probably the bottom of the barrel.

The explanation that maybe the Flag Smashers had a different plot written and shot, and then it got changed through creative editing and ADR, really feels right.  Spot on mentioning Malekith...how often does Marvel screw up an antagonist like this?  Were we supposed to empathize with the Flag Smashers?  Because the show really didn't do the work enough in that regard.

On 4/24/2021 at 7:48 AM, Eivion said:

 

Its a fair question that was kind of answered with the post credits scene. The pardon was far more important to her because it gave her a lot more room to move freely around the world and access to government intel and tech. Secrets are arguably more valuable than weapons. Beyond that none of them realized what Zemo was planning in executing the scientist and at the time Sharon had half a dozen or so super soldiers and serum running around that she could recover, study, and have remade by another scientist. The pardon was the most important thing.

That said, I do hope she ends up a skrull since it would add another layer to it.

Good explanation.  Being able to make Super Soldiers that maybe you can't control <<< having access to all the US government's secrets and technology.  Being on the inside >>>> being on the outside.  Though I hope she's not a Skrull, because that's just cheap.  "Carter was ostracized and made an outlaw by the government her family spent their lives fighting for, so in her bitterness she did her own thing and gradually became more and more evil" is, to me, far better a story than "she's an evil shape changing alien!"  How good people become bad is more satisfying than hand-waving it with "good person was replaced by baddie and nobody knew."

Edited by Technico Support
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