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The Natural
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Getting back to "they don't know why Austin and Rock worked"

I think it's at least partially true. They don't get that Rock could get away with horrible, stupid lines because Dwayne Johnson might literally be the most charismatic man on Earth. So they give guys who simply aren't The Rock similar lines and it bombs (and now sanitized versions of those lines)

They get that Austin was the rebel fighting his boss, but they don't get that AUSTIN ALWAYS WON. Okay, not actually always, but way more often than not. When the heels got heat on him, it worked because it didn't happen every week. He outsmarted Vince nearly every week. And they had Vince be the one getting embarrassed every week, not the actual wrestlers.

To use an example from one of the two episodes of RAW I've watched in the last three months: Seth claims AOP isn't backing him up. KO is positive he's lying. Rey offers to help Owens, KO says no. Rey gives him a lead pipe to use as a weapon.

Fast forward an hour or so, KO is looking for Seth. It's a setup, of course. In 1998, Steve Austin would've whipped Akam and Razer's asses, stunned Vince and drank beer while Rollins ran for his life. KO got beat up three on one, looked like a moron for turning down help and not accounting for the muscle he knew Seth had. Nobody got over.

Edited by Brian Fowler
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5 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It'll be interesting to see how Vince tries to spin everything. 

It's not interesting at all. It'll be blamed on the fired co-presidents and the direction they pushed for. The toxic creative direction of the company will NEVER, EVER be to blame. It will always be fired personnel, weather, TV viewing trends, streaming competition, etc.

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5 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

It'll be interesting to see how Vince tries to spin everything. 

It's not interesting at all. It'll be blamed on the fired co-presidents and the direction they pushed for. The toxic creative direction of the company will NEVER, EVER be to blame. It will always be fired personnel, weather, TV viewing trends, streaming competition, etc.

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21 minutes ago, Craig H said:

It's not interesting at all. It'll be blamed on the fired co-presidents and the direction they pushed for. The toxic creative direction of the company will NEVER, EVER be to blame. It will always be fired personnel, weather, TV viewing trends, streaming competition, etc.

 

1 minute ago, Craig H said:

It's not interesting at all. It'll be blamed on the fired co-presidents and the direction they pushed for. The toxic creative direction of the company will NEVER, EVER be to blame. It will always be fired personnel, weather, TV viewing trends, streaming competition, etc.

Agreed. I think it's doubly not interesting.

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1 hour ago, The Natural said:

I was 13 and it was something seeing Dan Severn with all those Championships and when Ultimo Drago held the J-Crown. Dan Severn's music is underrated.

As once pointed out on a B&V&C Retro show, Dan Severn was a former UFC champion, with a legendary manager as mouthpiece, who did almost nothing but suplexes, and was called The Beast. 

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3 hours ago, The Natural said:

I was 13 and it was something seeing Dan Severn with all those Championships and when Ultimo Drago held the J-Crown. Dan Severn's music is underrated.

Love it.  I attended a Dan Severn training camp many years ago and it was the toughest, yet most fun, weekend of my life.

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4 hours ago, The Natural said:

I was 13 and it was something seeing Dan Severn with all those Championships and when Ultimo Drago held the J-Crown. Dan Severn's music is underrated.

I didn’t watch the UFC prior to this. I mean I knew about it because of commercials, kids in school(That made the original version of it sound awesome), and Virtuosity. But when Dan Severn arrived on the scene with the suit, and tie I thought he looked like an absolute killer. Sadly he would have to speak(Sounding grandpa-ish), and wrestle without a shirt. This would kill any mystique he had to start with. I would later watch those UFC’s he was the center piece of to understand why Vince wanted to bring him in. I just think with Vince allowing the use of roids again, Bret Hart being a top heel now, and the ball of charisma that was Austin, he had no chance of looking like a million bucks during that period of time.

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1 minute ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

I didn’t watch the UFC prior to this. I mean I knew about it because of commercials, kids in school(That made the original version of it sound awesome), and Virtuosity. But when Dan Severn arrived on the scene with the suit, and tie I thought he looked like an absolute killer. Sadly he would have to speak(Sounding grandpa-ish), and wrestle without a shirt. This would kill any mystique he had to start with. I would later watch those UFC’s he was the center piece of to understand why Vince wanted to bring him in. I just think with Vince allowing the use of roids again, Bret Hart being a top heel now, and the ball of charisma that was Austin, he had no chance of looking like a million bucks during that period of time.

I watched UFC 3 in 1998, I believe and when Sky briefly aired a UFC show round about 2002 showing old fights including Shamrock vs. Severn 1 and Randy Couture vs. Pedro Rizzo 2.

I became a hardcore MMA fan in 2005 when Bravo aired PPV's of UFC 24 hours later starting with UFC 51, a UFC show replaying old fights in their entirety and Ultimate Knockouts. Watched MMA ever since 2005.

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This quote by Pacino in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood about actors jobbing to stars while playing “Heavies” can be a perfect wrestling meme to any discussion about potential wrestling stars jobbing on a weekly bases. 

Quote

Marvin Schwarz : So Rick, who's gonna kick the shit out of you next week? Mannix? The Man from U.N.C.L.E.? The Girl from U.N.C.L.E.? How about Batman and Robin? Ping! Pow! Choom! Zoom! Down goes you, down goes your career as a leading man.

Edited by LoneWolf&Subs
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2 hours ago, The Natural said:

I'd like to hear more if you'd be so kind, please?

He was appearing on some local shows and one of the promotions brought him in for a seminar over a week.  Done a bit of everything from amateur grappling to in ring stuff.  I was probably the biggest guy (height and weight) in the class so he would constantly pull me out to demonstrate drills.  

I’ve always been a decent amateur wrestler but I was amazed just how quick Dan Severn was.  He is huge but astonishingly quick, even at his age.  The closest I could imagine to what wrestling a bear would be like.  At one point he demonstrated a heel hook on me and without question it was the worst pain I’ve ever felt for such a tiny movement.  

A lot of self defense stuff was shown and he had a lot of stories from his time wrestling all over the world, he really hated how much oil some of the European / Turkish wrestlers used before amateur matches.  I found his stories of working with Michigan Law Enforcement really fascinating as well.

Possibly the nicest man in the biz that I’ve met (not that I met many), humble, time for everyone and really, and I can’t understate this, really funny.  He’s like the best wrestling uncle ever. 

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11 hours ago, MonteCarl said:

Thoughts on who will be announced as his match at the Saudi show? Maybe Goldberg/Reigns?

Honestly, I think they should run Goldberg-Bray.   Having The Fiend no-sell a spear/jackhammer cements him as the Akuma in SSF2 level monster they've been building him as. 

Plus it does zero damage to Goldberg to job to Wyatt and this is exactly the sort of thing he should be doing. 

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27 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

Honestly, I think they should run Goldberg-Bray.   Having The Fiend no-sell a spear/jackhammer cements him as the Akuma in SSF2 level monster they've been building him as. 

Plus it does zero damage to Goldberg to job to Wyatt and this is exactly the sort of thing he should be doing. 

Sorry that doesn't work out using WWE Math.  

Goldberg = Wrestler who became popular in the 90's (X)

Fiend = Current Superstar (Y)

In WWE Math: X > Y.  

This is ALWAYS true.  It never varies.  

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Log said:

Sorry that doesn't work out using WWE Math.  

Goldberg = Wrestler who became popular in the 90's (X)

Fiend = Current Superstar (Y)

In WWE Math: X > Y.  

This is ALWAYS true.  It never varies.  

I don't want to derail this a few pages with WWE math.  But the idea of doing this does sound fascinating.

As for the conference call Thursday I wonder if a separate thread will be needed considering how much has already been discussed about Barrios and Wilson being let go.  I'm just hoping for a slow work day so I can keep track of it all.

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43 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I don't want to derail this a few pages with WWE math.  But the idea of doing this does sound fascinating.

As for the conference call Thursday I wonder if a separate thread will be needed considering how much has already been discussed about Barrios and Wilson being let go.  I'm just hoping for a slow work day so I can keep track of it all.

Trying to think (having a bad day today) whether I finish my charity shop shift UK time when it starts USA time. Think so. That conference call results will be most interesting for the reasons my friend gives and what spin Vince will put on it.

Edited by The Natural
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9 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Trying to think (having a bad day today) whether I finish my charity shop shift UK time when it starts USA time. Think so. That conference call results will be most interesting for the reasons my friend gives and what spin Vince will put on it.

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13 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

 

They get that Austin was the rebel fighting his boss, but they don't get that AUSTIN ALWAYS WON. Okay, not actually always, but way more often than not. When the heels got heat on him, it worked because it didn't happen every week. He outsmarted Vince nearly every week. And they had Vince be the one getting embarrassed every week, not the actual wrestlers.

 

THIS is something that really jumped out at me when I was watching some old Raw stuff recently.  Austin almost always won the weekly battles.  

Even the damn reveal of Vince as the Higher Power ended with Austin coming out and one-upping him by being named CEO and booking the Ministry in all kinds of bullshit matches to big pops.

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