NOV WRESTLING CHIT CHAT THREAD

[jaedmc]

Are there any potential heel turns (on someone else) left in the WWE that would genuinely mean anything without sounding contrived?

 I think Bryan and Punk working together after the attacks by the Wyatts, leading to a long-term angle where Punk turns on Bryan, revealing himself to be a hypocritical douchebag, makes sense.

Some reveal.

[Matt D]

I await Bryan usurping the Wyatts since he has the biggest beard. 

[LooseCannon]

 

 

Are there any potential heel turns (on someone else) left in the WWE that would genuinely mean anything without sounding contrived?

 I think Bryan and Punk working together after the attacks by the Wyatts, leading to a long-term angle where Punk turns on Bryan, revealing himself to be a hypocritical douchebag, makes sense.

Some reveal.

 

 

Well, they say wrestlers are better off playing themselves turned up to eleven.

[cwoy2j]

 

 

Let us not be aggressive Vic, we are here to educate not conquer.Are there big dudes you do like, pal? What about Vader?

 

I liked Vader and enjoyed a lot of his work in WWF actually. Lots of underrated matches that people sleep on b/c he was basically on jobber duty after 1996. Also, don't know if they count as "big dude" wrestlers but I'm a huge fan of Stan Hansen and Terry Gordy. Those guys just seemed to do a lot more in the ring.

 

 

I'm going to outright say that you don't get it and I'm honestly sorry for you, because there's so much more to wrestling than "doing a lot in the ring." I think mostly all of us felt that way at some point in our life though. We grew out of it.

 

I know it sounds hard to believe, but so much about why Henry is so good is because of what he DOESN'T do in the ring.

 

 

Well we're just gonna have to do the dreaded "agree to disagree". I've watched a ton of wrestling over the years and Mark Henry just doesn't do it for me. Sorry.

[cwoy2j]

I would support Kofi sulking around backstage, lamenting "What about me, What about Kofi" And a change up of offense with his heel character might do him good.

 

Who's the Tommy Dreamer to his Raven? Perhaps Alicia Fox could be the fat girl from summer camp.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

 

YES!

[Victator]

The problem was a year later when the writers took liberties with his character.

[Matt D]

 

 

 

Let us not be aggressive Vic, we are here to educate not conquer.Are there big dudes you do like, pal? What about Vader?

 

I liked Vader and enjoyed a lot of his work in WWF actually. Lots of underrated matches that people sleep on b/c he was basically on jobber duty after 1996. Also, don't know if they count as "big dude" wrestlers but I'm a huge fan of Stan Hansen and Terry Gordy. Those guys just seemed to do a lot more in the ring.

 

 

I'm going to outright say that you don't get it and I'm honestly sorry for you, because there's so much more to wrestling than "doing a lot in the ring." I think mostly all of us felt that way at some point in our life though. We grew out of it.

 

I know it sounds hard to believe, but so much about why Henry is so good is because of what he DOESN'T do in the ring.

 

 

Well we're just gonna have to do the dreaded "agree to disagree". I've watched a ton of wrestling over the years and Mark Henry just doesn't do it for me. Sorry.

 

The issue isn't what you like or don't like or what does it for you or doesn't; it's that you can't understand what others see in him, even when they're outright explaining it to you. I loathe (because it's an easy example) Davey Richards, but I get what people like about him. 

[ebbie]

I guess I will be the indifferent one towards Henry. I don't think he is the end all, be all. Yet I don't think that he is some worthless slug. I do likr the camera shot of his fucking huge back/head and how his "do this move to everyone in the ring when he enters the Rumble spot is headbutts for everyone. But I never got the vibe that he is a guy I want go see move of. Maybe because his stop and go pushes are because he can't last more than a month without getting hurt. Just feels like a watse of a spot that someone else can use.

[jaedmc]

 

I would support Kofi sulking around backstage, lamenting "What about me, What about Kofi" And a change up of offense with his heel character might do him good.

 

Who's the Tommy Dreamer to his Raven? Perhaps Alicia Fox could be the fat girl from summer camp.

 

Yoshi Tatsu is my answer to everything.

[Hooker]

Of things people haven't already mentioned for the reading comprehension challenged: The Sheamus feud had multiple good matches. The Orton feud had good matches. The Big Show feud had great matches. Then there's the Evan Bourne series from ECW. There's the CM Punk series from last year. 

 

As for why we generally look down on people who don't like Mark Henry, it's because a lot of what he does that stands out is nuanced. Yes, there's the obvious presence and great looking offense, but Henry does so many of the little things so well, and you actually have to pay attention and think to notice it. Frankly, if you are paying attention and thinking and giving a damn about what you're watching, you really can't miss it. It's that obvious. In fact it's so obvious that I'm okay sounding like a dick about it. If you don't like Mark Henry and you can't understand what he does well, then you really aren't very good at watching and understanding pro wrestling and how it works. 

 

That's okay too, though. I think FSW would be glad to help you learn.

Is it possible you can slow down and look at how much of a hilarious snob you're being?  You liking Mark Henry wrestling matches doesn't make you more sophisticated than people who don't and it's absurd that I should even have to say something like that.

[LooseCannon]

 

 

I would support Kofi sulking around backstage, lamenting "What about me, What about Kofi" And a change up of offense with his heel character might do him good.

 

Who's the Tommy Dreamer to his Raven? Perhaps Alicia Fox could be the fat girl from summer camp.

 

Yoshi Tatsu is my answer to everything.

 

 

If the Undertaker insisted that his streak should be broken at Wrestlemania, who should have the honor of defeating him?

[Matt D]

 

Of things people haven't already mentioned for the reading comprehension challenged: The Sheamus feud had multiple good matches. The Orton feud had good matches. The Big Show feud had great matches. Then there's the Evan Bourne series from ECW. There's the CM Punk series from last year. 

 

As for why we generally look down on people who don't like Mark Henry, it's because a lot of what he does that stands out is nuanced. Yes, there's the obvious presence and great looking offense, but Henry does so many of the little things so well, and you actually have to pay attention and think to notice it. Frankly, if you are paying attention and thinking and giving a damn about what you're watching, you really can't miss it. It's that obvious. In fact it's so obvious that I'm okay sounding like a dick about it. If you don't like Mark Henry and you can't understand what he does well, then you really aren't very good at watching and understanding pro wrestling and how it works. 

 

That's okay too, though. I think FSW would be glad to help you learn.

Is it possible you can slow down and look at how much of a hilarious snob you're being?  You liking Mark Henry wrestling matches doesn't make you more sophisticated than people who don't and it's absurd that I should even have to say something like that.

 

Nope, sorry. I just want to make sure I get all my spots in this morning.

[Hooker]

You've literally invented someone else to argue with in order to support your insane hypothesis.  If I understand what happens in a typical Mark Henry match, don't like Davey Richards matches, don't like spotfests, or a few other things you've accused everybody who has a different opinion of something than you on the Internet, you argument collapses.

 

Seriously.  Chill out, man.

[Matt D]

The issue is that he can't understand it. I know this is going to be hard concept for you to grasp since you've already come out so strongly on the matter, but bear with me a second here: It does take more sophistication to figure out how to enjoy wrestling (or anything really) due to the little things than due to constant action. It takes more thought. It takes more effort. It takes paying more attention. It's actively harder to do. It doesn't make you a better person or even necessarily a smarter one for doing it, but it does actually show a higher level of thought and sophistication and effort. It's not rocket science, but it's also not entirely something that comes naturally, or at the very least, even if you can naturally appreciate the end result, it takes more effort to go in there and figure out the nuts and the bolts of why you might.

 

So you can call me absurd all you like, but yeah, I am actually saying it takes more sophistication to appreciate Mark Henry than other wrestlers and I've explained why in relatively calm terms without resorting to name calling and this poor guy doesn't seem to be able to manage it as of yet.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

[jstout]

I dunno about that. I think Henry's appeal is that he's a throwback to the days when wrestling was awesome in our eyes (being of a generally older mindset here at the DVDVR board). Henry would've fit in with any era of wrestling that any of us like - the Rock 'n Wrestling days, the cool old days of WCW, hell, even in Japan as a big foreigner.

 

It's easy to see why some people think he's boring, because they didn't grow up being exposed to that style. And it's easy to see why some people hold his bad Sexual Chocolate early days against him and have let that taint his character here forward. I don't think there's a litmus test for wrestling fandom like "if you don't like X, you're not a true fan."

[Hooker]

Well, I've said my piece.  I just find your snobbery really obnoxious because, aside from people ganging up on Gonzales every now and then, this is a rare message board where people actually give each other basic levels of respect when discussing things.  But places like that always start falling apart with someone coming in with that sort of garbage, so I wanted to speak up.

 

If you could do me a favour and come back in a couple months to look at what you posted, maybe you'll see how awful it is.

[Matt D]

I'm not saying they're not a true fan. I'm also saying that I can understand why someone might not like Henry. What I haven't seen is that the person I was initially arguing with actually making an effort. He led with:

 

I don't know what you all see but Mark Henry kinda sucks.

 

 

and i countered by trying to explain, in fact, what we see. It was met by befuddlement for the most part and certainly no real attempt to reach a middle ground of understanding. I don't care if people agree with me or not. I do care that they make an effort to at least understand, especially if they come in with a statement like that.

[Brian Fowler]

To me, Henry is a lot like William Regal, or late in his career Eddy Guerrero (although, to be clear, as much as I love Henry, he's not as good as Eddy was.)

 

All three of them had the same thing I most loved in all of wrestling:  Every single second they were in the ring, every single thing they did/do, had/has a purpose.  They would never do something just to be doing something.  Every move, every gesture, every bit of bad-ass Mark Henry trash talk, every time they play to the crowd...  All of it meant something, and worked to move the match along and held a purpose.

 

There aren't very many guys I have ever seen that do that.  Mark Henry is one of them, and I fucking love him for it.

[jstout]

I'm not saying they're not a true fan. I'm also saying that I can understand why someone might not like Henry. What I haven't seen is that the person I was initially arguing with actually making an effort. He led with:

 

I don't know what you all see but Mark Henry kinda sucks.

 

 

and i countered by trying to explain, in fact, what we see. It was met by befuddlement for the most part and certainly no real attempt to reach a middle ground of understanding. I don't care if people agree with me or not. I do care that they make an effort to at least understand, especially if they come in with a statement like that.

Sometimes it's hard to articulate a feeling. Like I know you guys really like Alberto Del Rio in the ring and say he's one of the best in the ring, but something about him just bores me to tears. There's something about him that makes me think he's one of the most boring ones out there, and I can't really put my finger on it except to say I find him lacking in charisma, the "it" factor. That's about as analytical as I can get with Del Rio.

[jaedmc]

Matt's argument isn't that you should like Mark Henry, it's that you should know why people like Mark Henry. And he's explained it. If you understand what he's saying than you should "get" what people see in Mark Henry. That doesn't mean that because you get it, that you have to enjoy it or like it. And he's not asking you to.

 

It's not snobbery, it's trying to be understood. And if you won't make the effort to understand what he's saying, then I think he's got a right to get frustrated when he has made the effort to understand both sides. What he clearly wants is for you to get at least why he likes something so that he can talk about wrestling with you. It's not exclusion, it's inclusion. Come see why we like Mark Henry, stay or don't stay, just don't act like we're freaks.

[Matt D]

 

I'm not saying they're not a true fan. I'm also saying that I can understand why someone might not like Henry. What I haven't seen is that the person I was initially arguing with actually making an effort. He led with:

 

I don't know what you all see but Mark Henry kinda sucks.

 

 

and i countered by trying to explain, in fact, what we see. It was met by befuddlement for the most part and certainly no real attempt to reach a middle ground of understanding. I don't care if people agree with me or not. I do care that they make an effort to at least understand, especially if they come in with a statement like that.

Sometimes it's hard to articulate a feeling. Like I know you guys really like Alberto Del Rio in the ring and say he's one of the best in the ring, but something about him just bores me to tears. There's something about him that makes me think he's one of the most boring ones out there, and I can't really put my finger on it except to say I find him lacking in charisma, the "it" factor. That's about as analytical as I can get with Del Rio.

 

 

You can understand what people who do like him like about him though? Or if you were to bring up the topic, like you did just now, and someone came back and gave an explanation of why they did like him, you'd at least make an effort to understand it, no? That's the difference here.

 

EDIT: Yes, listen to Jae, please.Though to admit my snobbery on some level, I do think it's actually harder to enjoy Henry than other wrestlers, due to various factors, maybe and even harder to understand why people enjoy Henry than other wrestlers, but I think everyone's made a real effort over the last many years to explain it as best they could. 

[Brian Fowler]

That's definitely part of this, too.  In 2006, a lot of spent a lot of time thinking and writing about why we like Mark Henry.  And fighting about it.  And explaining why we like him more than Shawn Michaels.  And and and and and...

 

Now, of course, we can cite our own arguments by rote.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Henry's trash talking is maybe my favorite thing about him. He's very good in the ring for what he does but the trash talking is one of the things that make him a must watch. 

 

In fairness to cwoy2j, he might be a new poster around these parts and nobody in this thread has explained what it is about Henry that they like from an in-ring standpoint.

 

"It's the little things"...That could mean anything. Explain your point or move on.