WON 2019 Hall of Fame Discussion

[Jiji]

Observer Hall of Fame inductees: 

• Los Misioneros de la Muerte (El Signo, El Texano and Negro Navarro)
• Ultimo Guerrero
• Villano III
• Dr. Wagner Jr.
• Gedo
• Jim Crockett Sr.
• Edward “Bearcat” Wright Jr.
• Paul Pons

Quote

To be inducted into the Hall of Fame via voting, one must get at least 60 percent of the vote from the different regions, which are U.S. and Canada historical (full-time careers ending 1989 or earlier), U.S. and Canada modern, Japan, Mexico and the rest of the world.

Akiyama was shy by three votes (HORSE. SHYIT!), Don Owen missed by two votes, Stanley Weston by 2, and Sputnik Monroe missed out by 4. Akiyama missing again is a travesty. 

Quote

Less than 10% of all votes from region and dropped from next year’s ballot: Jose Lothario, Dick Slater, George Steele, Volador Jr., Naoki Sugabayashi

Dropped from next year’s ballot due to the 15 year/50 percent rule: None

Will be dropped next year if not getting at least 50 percent: Don Owen, Jun Akiyama, Sgt. Slaughter, Kerry Von Erich, Chavo Guerrero Sr.

Added to next year’s ballot: Ole Anderson, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Brian Pillman, Joe Higuchi, Takaaki Kidani

 

[Curt McGirt]

How the hell is Sarge not already in there, and not only that but hanging by a thread? 

[Execproducer]

Agreed. To me, Sarge is like Dick Murdoch.  It seems as obvious as the nose on your face. But I really don't get Stanley Weston not being in already. 

[odessasteps]

Happy for the luchadors that got in ( although I didnt vote for UG, since he is a main event guy still)

Very surprised none of the non wrestlers i voted for were snubbed, esp dave brown. 

[Curt McGirt]

40 minutes ago, Execproducer said:

Agreed. To me, Sarge is like Dick Murdoch.  It seems as obvious as the nose on your face. But I really don't get Stanley Weston not being in already. 

It feels absurd considering Gedo is just in there because he books a good promotion. And who the fuck is Paul Pons? 

[SirSmUgly]

Don Owen not getting in is some bullshit. Maybe that's just my regional bias talking.

He's dropped now, isn't he?

EDIT: Nevermind, it's right in the post. Reading comprehension is my friend. 

Edited December 13, 2019 by Smelly McUgly

[Jiji]

Yeah, Owen, Akiyama, and Slaughter should all be in. Dave said the argument against Slaughter is that Slaughter had the great 5 year run in WWF, Mid-Atlantic, and AWA (was that considered part of his peak or am I misremembering?) but after that there wasn't a great deal in terms of performances. But he was also a pretty big draw in WWF and somewhat of a cultural icon.

My initial reaction to Gedo being a huge slamdunk was similar to @Curt McGirt but what he has done with NJPW is pretty remarkable. Created several superstars and for many, including a significant portion of Dave's readership, has created the best in-ring product of all time, sustaining it for 6 or 7 years. 

[Curt McGirt]

Good points. The first thing I thought when I saw his name was "is Jado not getting in too?" so obviously my head was not in the right place 

[grilledcheese]

1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

It feels absurd considering Gedo is just in there because he books a good promotion. And who the fuck is Paul Pons? 

19th century French Greco-Roman guy. First "world champion", apparently.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Pons

[The Natural]

4 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Observer Hall of Fame inductees: 

• Los Misioneros de la Muerte (El Signo, El Texano and Negro Navarro)
• Ultimo Guerrero
• Villano III
• Dr. Wagner Jr.
• Gedo
• Jim Crockett Sr.
• Edward “Bearcat” Wright Jr.
• Paul Pons

Akiyama was shy by three votes (HORSE. SHYIT!), Don Owen missed by two votes, Stanley Weston by 2, and Sputnik Monroe missed out by 4. Akiyama missing again is a travesty. 

 

Still no Jun Akiyama and Akira Taue in the HOF, boo.  Akiyama nearly made it.

Do you know who's up next year, please? I think Kazuchika Okada is eligible, he'll become a first time ballot member. Okada might challenge Kenta Kobashi for highest percentage of vote. Kobashi pulled 98% when he went in.

Edited December 13, 2019 by The Natural

[odessasteps]

2 hours ago, Oyaji said:

Created several superstars and for many, including a significant portion of Dave's readership, has created the best in-ring product of all time,

Bill Dundee?

[Matt D]

Part of the problem with Sarge is that he's woefully underrated as a worker in the early 90s which is the memory a lot of people have of him. He basically was the centerpiece for the Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic in 1991 and it didn't even draw. You can argue other problems (like whether or not he actually drew for the AWA in the mid-80s even if lore says he delivered them the ESPN deal). 

I think Don Owen gets in next year and well he should.

Great to see the Lucha logjam break. I don't see how anyone could read Dave's quick write up of the Misioneros and not think they belong. 

This feels like the most valid class in forever and it makes next year a lot more exciting. 

[RIPPA]

Dave mentioned in this issue that with so many guys going in - pretty much everyone who got at least 50% (but didn't get in) is pretty certain to get in over the next couple of years.

So if you are a big fan of say Don Owen or Jun Akiyama - don't fret too much

[RIPPA]

Also - Meiko's vote total is some bullshit

[RIPPA]

4 hours ago, The Natural said:

Do you know who's up next year, please? I think Kazuchika Okada is eligible, he'll become a first time ballot member. Okada might challenge Kenta Kobashi for highest percentage of vote. Kobashi pulled 98% when he went in.

For next year

Quote

Less than 10% of all votes from region and dropped from next year’s ballot: Jose Lothario, Dick Slater, George Steele, Volador Jr., Naoki Sugabayashi

Dropped from next year’s ballot due to the 15 year/50 percent rule: None

Will be dropped next year if not getting at least 50 percent: Don Owen, Jun Akiyama, Sgt. Slaughter, Kerry Von Erich, Chavo Guerrero Sr.

Added to next year’s ballot: Ole Anderson, Kevin Nash, Scott Hall, Brian Pillman, Joe Higuchi, Takaaki Kidani

I add the usual caveat assuming Dave remembers to put them on the ballot (there was definitely someone he forgot to include a couple of years ago and he was like "Well I guess I just will add them next year!")

[RIPPA]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

This feels like the most valid class in forever and it makes next year a lot more exciting. 

Until 4 current gen New Japan guys get in and you will kick something

[Matt D]

18 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Until 4 current gen New Japan guys get in and you will kick something

Poor Taue.

[Pete]

9 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

It feels absurd considering Gedo is just in there because he books a good promotion.

What a silly thing to say. Court Bauer books a good promotion. Cody and the Bucks book a good promotion. Gedo books the second largest promotion in the world and has it doing glory days-level business. That's like saying George Steinbrenner owned a good baseball team.

[RIPPA]

23 minutes ago, Pete said:

What a silly thing to say. Court Bauer books a good promotion. Cody and the Bucks book a good promotion. Gedo books the second largest promotion in the world and has it doing glory days-level business. That's like saying George Steinbrenner owned a good baseball team.

As a fan of the Yankees since 1981 I can safely say there were many many many many many many years where George Steinbrenner did not own a good baseball team

[Matt D]

How many other people are in the HOF for their booking as their primary accomplishment?

[RIPPA]

11 minutes ago, Matt D said:

How many other people are in the HOF for their booking as their primary accomplishment?

I would argue Jerry Jarrett as he wasn't really inducted for his wrestling

Of course there are a bunch of guys who were doing everything but that's where the line starts to blur between booking and promoting.

 

 

[Matt D]

1 minute ago, RIPPA said:

I would argue Jerry Jarrett as he wasn't really inducted for his wrestling

Of course there are a bunch of guys who were doing everything but that's where the line starts to blur between booking and promoting.

 

 

Jarrett has to be more on the promoter side, especially as he was only booking 1/3 of the time. He also drew to a degree as a worker (though not HOF level but maybe more than Gedo comparing tag runs?).

Gary Hart and Pat Patterson come to mind but one's an all time manager and the other's an all time wrestler.

[RIPPA]

For what it is worth - the was the first line about Jarrett from last year's HOF issue

Quote

Jerry Jarrett, 76, was a top babyface in Tennessee who is best known for booking and later running a successful promotion.

And almost everything Dave wrote was about his booking

But then this is the closing part

Quote

Jarrett’s legacy is mixed. The style of wrestling was not respected in its era, but was successful and the television was one of the best of its time, in many ways far ahead of its time. Many wrestlers had horror stories of pay, but really it was Nick Gulas who was the promoter during the worst of the era when Tennessee had the bad reputation. With Jarrett, there was some negativity, but mostly in the last several years of his run when business was poor.

Without question he ran a successful territory for a decade and booked strongly before that. As far as any list of successful American bookers, Jarrett would have to be on it. At the time, really before the induction of Roy Shire, the standards for a promoter getting in were much higher. In the early 2000s, the feeling was that the Jerry Jarrett legacy would be determined by whether he could make a go of TNA when he started it.

TNA ended up being a spectacular business failure that he was lucky to get out of. But looked at now, people have kind of glossed over that, and because the Memphis television was so much more entertaining in many ways than modern television, Jarrett in many ways has had a huge boost to his reputation in recent years, combined with a Shire induction of a guy who had maybe 15 years of success as a promoter getting in, and Jarrett could easily be viewed as, while not being as successful as a promoter for quite as long (Shire drew well for more than 15 years, while the Jarrett territory’s real strength was over by 1986 and the ability to pop big shows really ended by 1988), was far superior to Shire in television production, and regional wrestling was a much tougher business after 1985.

 

[Eivion]

9 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Good points. The first thing I thought when I saw his name was "is Jado not getting in too?" so obviously my head was not in the right place 

Honestly, Gedo w/o Jado feels weird, especially since they were one of the few long term tag teams in Japan. Beyond that I'm pretty sure Jado was helping Gedo with the booking the first few years, Liger as well. I'm not really sure when it just became Gedo.

[Pete]

57 minutes ago, Eivion said:

Honestly, Gedo w/o Jado feels weird, especially since they were one of the few long term tag teams in Japan. Beyond that I'm pretty sure Jado was helping Gedo with the booking the first few years, Liger as well. I'm not really sure when it just became Gedo.

Jado absolutely was helping Gedo, to the point they shared the WON Best Booker award from 2011-2014.