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Cliff Hanger

Rock and Roll Hall of Fame 2019

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Nominations are out.  

  • Def Leppard
  • Devo
  • Janet Jackson
  • John Prine
  • Kraftwerk
  • LL Cool J
  • MC5
  • Radiohead
  • Rage Against the Machine
  • Roxy Music
  • Rufus featuring Chaka Khan
  • Stevie Nicks
  • The Cure
  • The Zombies
  • Todd Rundgren

If I'm voting as a fanboy, I'm picking Kraftwerk, the Cure, Devo, LL Cool J and flipping a coin for Def Leppard vs Roxy Music--but if I were an actual HOF voter and not just some asshole rooting for the shit he listens to, I'd probably drop Devo (probably one of my 5 all-time favorite bands, and their weird ass multimedia projects did a lot to shape the way I think about music and performance art, but the idea that they're a first ballot candidate while Kraftwerk are perennial runners-up is indefensible) and the coin flip, and vote for Janet and Stevie because they are objectively deserving but work in genres that I'm not as interested in.  Cure, Janet and Kraftwerk seem like absolute no-brainers to me, but Kraftwerk have been nominated 3 times before so obviously the academy disagrees with me.

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You have any sort of music HOF that doesn't include John Prine, you might as well just burn the thing down. The Cure, Janet, and MC5 should all be in as well. I can see arguments for LL Cool J and Roxy Music, I wouldn't bang those particular drums myself, but I wouldn't be offended at their induction either.  How many fucking times are they going to trot out Kraftwerk and Rufus before they get the idea that no, just no.

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11 minutes ago, OSJ said:

You have any sort of music HOF that doesn't include John Prine, you might as well just burn the thing down. The Cure, Janet, and MC5 should all be in as well. I can see arguments for LL Cool J and Roxy Music, I wouldn't bang those particular drums myself, but I wouldn't be offended at their induction either.  How many fucking times are they going to trot out Kraftwerk and Rufus before they get the idea that no, just no.

MC5 is weird to me, because I simultaneously understand that they are hugely historically important but I couldn't name a single song of theirs other than "Kick Out the Jams" and without Illuminatus, I'd probably know it better as a BOC song. I think a self-education project is in order this week after I finish out my most recent Doctor Who radio play purchases.

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9 minutes ago, Cliff Hanger said:

MC5 is weird to me, because I simultaneously understand that they are hugely historically important but I couldn't name a single song of theirs other than "Kick Out the Jams" and without Illuminatus, I'd probably know it better as a BOC song. I think a self-education project is in order this week after I finish out my most recent Doctor Who radio play purchases.

Time spent familiarizing oneself with the greatness that was the MC5 is time well spent! Enjoy!

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If Radiohead goes in the same year they dropped Judas Priest off the ballot, they can go fuck themselves forever.

Vote Janet, Stevie, RATM, Prine, and as a homer pick, MC5

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1 hour ago, Brian Fowler said:

If Radiohead goes in the same year they dropped Judas Priest off the ballot, they can go fuck themselves forever.

Vote Janet, Stevie, RATM, Prine, and as s homer pick, MC5

The nominating committee seems to love just having one "hard rock/heavy metal" act at a time, so I'd blame Def Leppard more than anything. I can get that Radiohead isn't your thing, but they have sold a bunch of albums and have been a high grossing touring band for over 20 years. I can't stand Aerosmith, but I understand why they're in there. Hopefully Judas Priest and Iron Maiden can get in sooner rather than later, but as Alice Cooper said it's easier to get elected than nominated.

As for this class, I'd go with Radiohead, RATM, Prine (not very commercial, but easily on the level of Tom Waits and Laura Nyro ability wise), Devo and Janet Jackson.

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and since this is still "The Rock & Roll HOF brought ot you by Rolling Stone" The Monkees have never  even been placed on the ballot and that is a crime!

James

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I hope the Zombies get in because they've been on the ballot forever.

Roxy Music, Kraftwerk, Devo, Rufus / Chaka, Janet, and LL Cool J, The Cure, Stevie Nicks would probably round out my list of artists I'd like to see get in this year.

I love me some Radiohead, but those mother fuckers can wait their turn.

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Janet Jackson is a no brainer. 

Fleetwood Mac is already in right?  That makes Stevie Nicks solo stuff a more interesting conversation.  If they weren't in, I'd say definitely, but since they are...I'd be fine if she didn't go in as a solo artist. 

I think Rage Against the Machine is the best American rock band of the last 30 years...and those are years that matter. 

I'm kind of surprised The Cure isn't in yet, but they'll get in. 

Rufus featuring Chaka Khan is a really good candidate, but I also would understand if they didn't get in.  They are like one of those great teams that never actually won anything...sometimes Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed get into the hall of fame, but sometimes Clay Matthews does not.

LL Cool J is a hall of famer, but...Rakim isn't in...Big Daddy Kane isn't in...Kool G Rap ain't in...Snoop Dogg didn't make the ballot...Outkast is eligible and they aren't on the ballot...The Wu Tang Clan aren't on the ballot...should LL Cool J make it before any of them? 

  

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33 minutes ago, supremebve said:

LL Cool J is a hall of famer, but...Rakim isn't in...Big Daddy Kane isn't in...Kool G Rap ain't in...Snoop Dogg didn't make the ballot...Outkast is eligible and they aren't on the ballot...The Wu Tang Clan aren't on the ballot...should LL Cool J make it before any of them? 

NWA made it in before any of those people so my short answer would be, Yes.  Get LL in and cycle in other deserving hip hop artists onto the ballot.

Anyone worth their salt could make an argument as to why Kane or Kool G Rap should've been on the ballot BEFORE NWA, but here we are so let's just get them in as they come up for vote rather than worry about who got in first.

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Just now, J.T. said:

NWA made it in before any of those people so my short answer would be, Yes.

NWA fills the Stevie Nicks corollary.  Ice Cube and Dr. Dre have to be in, so you can put them in as individuals or induct NWA.  Not only that, NWA is probably more deserving than LL Cool J.  Here's the thing about LL Cool J, he's great when he's great, but he isn't great all that often.  Go through his discography and tell me how many legitimately great albums he's made.  He's someone who is super famous, someone who is as talented as anyone who has ever done it, but his body of work isn't all that great.  

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I just want to see ELP get in while one of their members is still, you know, alive. Have they ever even been nominated?

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The lack of love for John Prine from some of my otherwise knowledgeable friends is making me sad. Yeah, there's only one member of ELP left, this is true. John Prine has survived Vietnam and cancer and is still kicking making him the baddest mofo in the room. The sad thing is people aren't familiar with him, they know the songs, but they don't know who wrote them. Even Mrs. OSJ disappointed me in that regard... "You Never Even Call Me By My Name"  has always been one of "our" songs and she didn't know that Prine wrote it. Anyway, enlighten yourselves:

 

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3 minutes ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

John Prine is the god damned greatest.

We don't agree on much, but John Prine brings us together... Consider the olive branch extended.

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No Priest, no Maiden, no Motley, no FUCKING SLAYER? Fuck this list with Ron Jeremy's cock.

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And again, no Monkees.

 

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8 hours ago, supremebve said:

 

Janet Jackson is a no brainer. 

Fleetwood Mac is already in right?  That makes Stevie Nicks solo stuff a more interesting conversation.  If they weren't in, I'd say definitely, but since they are...I'd be fine if she didn't go in as a solo artist. 

I think Rage Against the Machine is the best American rock band of the last 30 years...and those are years that matter. 

I'm kind of surprised The Cure isn't in yet, but they'll get in. 

Rufus featuring Chaka Khan is a really good candidate, but I also would understand if they didn't get in.  They are like one of those great teams that never actually won anything...sometimes Jim Kelly, Thurman Thomas and Andre Reed get into the hall of fame, but sometimes Clay Matthews does not.

LL Cool J is a hall of famer, but...Rakim isn't in...Big Daddy Kane isn't in...Kool G Rap ain't in...Snoop Dogg didn't make the ballot...Outkast is eligible and they aren't on the ballot...The Wu Tang Clan aren't on the ballot...should LL Cool J make it before any of them? 

  

Okay, just limiting the conversation to the acts that you've mentioned.

Janet - Agreed, a no-brainer. That said, I own no music by Janet nor do I plan to get any in the near  future, but I'm not going to argue the numbers of hits, record sales or the sheer talent that woman has.

Stevie Nicks - To disagree, her  solo career isn't that interesting a discussion, she's Sheryl Crow with hit songs and scarves. No. 

RATM - Another no brainer. Yes, the last thirty years matter, but they haven't been all that great for American rock, but RATM was a bright spot. You should have said "one of the greatest", because the Foo Fighters called and seem rather upset. Besides which, we all know that the Cramps were greatest American rock band in the history of ever.

The Cure - As with a couple of acts that shall remain nameless only to say that one of them is German and starts with "K", I would sooner drive chopsticks into my ears than listen to the fucking Cure. That said, they do belong, just ain't my thing.

Rufus/Chaka Khan - My young friend, you had to be there, I was. They were like nothing we'd ever heard before, (granted, I'm a white boy from Seattle, but I'll stack my soul, R & B, and hip hop cred against most anyone...) They were fucking transcendent. But here's the thing, it was a brief candle though TONS of influence. They were like the late 1990s Atlanta Braves, on paper they looked incredible, but when you get down to it, where are all the platinum records, the sold out stadiums, etc.? The thing is, they were influential as fuck, but on their own merits as an act, I think they fall short, and my girlfriend at the time and I LOVED Rufus. 

LL Cool J - Here, I'll use an analogy that I'm sure you'll dig... LL Cool J is the Forest Griffin of music. Yes, when he was on he was a phenom, as far as intangibles, if he's not the most charismatic fucker in the room it has to be an awfully big room. The bottom line, between the bight spots there's a whole lot of meaningless filler. Is that a HOFr? Maybe, I could be convinced either way, the influence and bright spots are pretty impressive, but I'm not a huge fan of acts that have one album of great material spread out over ten records. JT makes the argument that we should just get him in as that will clear the way for more deserving hip hop acts that (IMO) should go in first. I'm not a big fan of this reasoning as history shows with this HOF the logic doesn't follow otherwise Link Wray would be in and he's not.  I wouldn't be upset at LL Cool J going in, but when more worthy acts are sitting outside I'm not going to bang the drum for him either.

Lastly, (and this is addressed to a couple of other posters): WTF is this Monkees stuff? Is this some sort of joke that I'm not getting? I'm probably the only poster here who watched their show religiously, had my parents buy every bit of merch I could get away with and you know what? I was in 5th fucking grade!!! Yes, they had a couple of catchy tunes, (having Neil Diamond writing songs for you will do that, just ask Deep Purple... (bonus points to whoever gets that reference), but that's it.) You might as well induct the fucking Banana Splits. Jeebus fuck, Wenner has enough jokes in his HOF without deliberately adding more.

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This is the only hall of fame I'm aware of that I have less respect for than Meltzer's, and even in that comparison, it's not particularly close.

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1 hour ago, Death From Above said:

This is the only hall of fame I'm aware of that I have less respect for than Meltzer's, and even in that comparison, it's not particularly close.

I'm not going to derail a musical discussion arguing about the WON HOF, but if you want, I'm your huckleberry... Cya in the WON HOF thread in the wrestling folder.

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14 hours ago, OSJ said:

Rufus/Chaka Khan - My young friend, you had to be there, I was. They were like nothing we'd ever heard before, (granted, I'm a white boy from Seattle, but I'll stack my soul, R & B, and hip hop cred against most anyone...) They were fucking transcendent. But here's the thing, it was a brief candle though TONS of influence. They were like the late 1990s Atlanta Braves, on paper they looked incredible, but when you get down to it, where are all the platinum records, the sold out stadiums, etc.? The thing is, they were influential as fuck, but on their own merits as an act, I think they fall short, and my girlfriend at the time and I LOVED Rufus. 

6

Yeah, this is kind of a different look at my original point.  Rufus is one of those bands that were extremely important to the people who were there to see them, but not really important to anyone else.  I used the Bills and the Browns as an example for exactly that reason.  I rooted for the Browns all my life, and absolutely love those mid to late 80s teams, but no one else does.  I also rooted for those early 90 Bills teams, and while they didn't ever win a championship, but they have some of my most beloved players.  Those teams mean something to me, because of the age I was when those teams were good, but when the all-time great teams are mentioned they are generally left out.  If you are a fan of music, there is a lot to like about Rufus/Chaka Khan.  When we are talking about the entire history of American music, they are also-rans, not champions.  So, I'd like to see them in, but I wouldn't be offended if they were left out.  

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16 hours ago, OSJ said:

RATM - Another no brainer. Yes, the last thirty years matter, but they haven't been all that great for American rock, but RATM was a bright spot. You should have said "one of the greatest", because the Foo Fighters called and seem rather upset. Besides which, we all know that the Cramps were greatest American rock band in the history of ever.

OK, I have a little more time than I thought I would, so I'll do this one too.  The last 30 years matters, because it includes the 1990s, which produced a lot of the bands in the best American rock band conversation.  Rage is my pick over that time, but I'm not going to argue against the Foo Fighters, because that is more of a difference in taste instead of quality.  As far as the best American rock band in history, it is Funkadelic.  There is not a greater collection of talent in the history of rock than in Funkadelic...and unlike LL Cool J, that talent delivered far more often than they didn't.  

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27 minutes ago, supremebve said:

OK, I have a little more time than I thought I would, so I'll do this one too.  The last 30 years matters, because it includes the 1990s, which produced a lot of the bands in the best American rock band conversation.  Rage is my pick over that time, but I'm not going to argue against the Foo Fighters, because that is more of a difference in taste instead of quality.  As far as the best American rock band in history, it is Funkadelic.  There is not a greater collection of talent in the history of rock than in Funkadelic...and unlike LL Cool J, that talent delivered far more often than they didn't.  

In terms of musical talent I can't make any arguments against Funkadelic. However, my Cramps fanboyism knows no bounds, so I'll leave it as a matter of taste, just saying that while the various line-ups of Funkadelic were all better technically than anyone that ever played in the Cramps, in the final analysis, (for me) there are more tracks by Cramps that I dig than by Funkadelic, (although it IS close). Both bands are among those that I can just load up and let play while I work without having to skip around and dodge mediocre filler. Basically, they both do the one most commendable thing a band can do in my estimation, they don't include tracks that are a bloody waste of time on their albums, (and this goes to George Clinton and Lux & Ivy in equal measure), they care about the total product, not just slapping extra stuff around a couple of a-list tunes and calling it good as so many bands are wont to do. 

BTW: (Just 'cause I love rubbing stuff like this in...) Can you imagine being 13 and hearing Free Your Mind.......And your Ass Will Follow? Just part of growing up OSJ.😉

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1 hour ago, supremebve said:

Yeah, this is kind of a different look at my original point.  Rufus is one of those bands that were extremely important to the people who were there to see them, but not really important to anyone else.  I used the Bills and the Browns as an example for exactly that reason.  I rooted for the Browns all my life, and absolutely love those mid to late 80s teams, but no one else does.  I also rooted for those early 90 Bills teams, and while they didn't ever win a championship, but they have some of my most beloved players.  Those teams mean something to me, because of the age I was when those teams were good, but when the all-time great teams are mentioned they are generally left out.  If you are a fan of music, there is a lot to like about Rufus/Chaka Khan.  When we are talking about the entire history of American music, they are also-rans, not champions.  So, I'd like to see them in, but I wouldn't be offended if they were left out.  

Your second sentence really sums it up except for "influence". So, I agree 100% on your conclusion, because to me, influence unless you are talking something so basic that it cannot be questioned like Sister Rosetta Tharpe, Chuck Berry, James Brown, etc., " influence" becomes pretty difficult to track down. We can probably agree that the Yardbirds were one of the most "influential" British bands when it comes to the electric guitar as the main instrument of rock, but who are we talking about? The band had three of the greatest technical rock players of all-time in Clapton, Beck, & Page; who was the "influence", all three? Clapton? Page? Beck? Clapton produced a tremendous volume of work balanced by some really mediocre crap, Page played lead for the greatest rock band in history and has coasted on his rep ever since, Beck remains the greatest technical virtuoso to ever play teh instrument and (sadly) is also the best musician to never have anything approaching a hit. The influence is hard to pin down. 

With Rufus I can say that I believe that they influenced Pop, soul, R & B, and hip hop but it's damned hard to say by how much and what that should count for in the overall picture. Evaluated by themselves in a vacuum (which I really feel is the only fair way to go with any act post 1965), they are exactly like the sports teams we both loved, important as hell to the fanbase that was there, but also-rans in the big picture.

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On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 11:02 AM, Pete said:

I just want to see ELP get in while one of their members is still, you know, alive. Have they ever even been nominated?

I would like to se ELP get in there too someday but he's not dead...... er... You're talking about Emmerson Lake & Palmer and not the badass Caucasian half of Run The Jewels.

Sorry, Pete.

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