[MM16] WWE NOMINATIONS

[RIPPA]

Not only doe she do a Slingshot Suplex, he does an awesome one at that. 

 

I had to read that 6 times to figure out what it said

 

I was concerned that Dragon had been taken hostage and was trying to embed a coded message in his posts

[Matt D]

How's the Finn vs Sami fancam? I haven't had a chance to watch that yet.

 

[MORELOCK]

Overall, I think the thing is we are assuming WWE gets 16 people, but I am almost positive there are 50 guys better then the 16th best guy in the WWE this year.

 

This is the part of the MM business that I'm glad people who hate WWE don't get to make the final decision on things like this.

 

Rippa did say that the four nomination threads aren't necessarily going to be distilled to four sections of the tournament with 16 guys a piece. The idea that "Other US & UK nominations" would produce the same number of entrants as WWE kind of makes me roll my eyes, but I assume you were talking about mostly puro/lucha workers anyway.

[The Man Known as Dan]

 

Overall, I think the thing is we are assuming WWE gets 16 people, but I am almost positive there are 50 guys better then the 16th best guy in the WWE this year.

 

This is the part of the MM business that I'm glad people who hate WWE don't get to make the final decision on things like this.

 

Rippa did say that the four nomination threads aren't necessarily going to be distilled to four sections of the tournament with 16 guys a piece. The idea that "Other US & UK nominations" would produce the same number of entrants as WWE kind of makes me roll my eyes, but I assume you were talking about mostly puro/lucha workers anyway.

 

 

Question Morelock, just how many indies have you watched to know any better?

 

And, honestly, I'd say Japan's field isn't any stronger then WWE due to the fact that it's basically just New Japan with a few exceptions now a days there. They have a bunch of guys who are good (Honma, Nakamura, Styles, Ishii to name some), some that are much more diversive (Tanahashi and Okada), and then.... some guys.  I'd say the US Indies and Lucha will both have strong showings in terms of depth since this was kind of a "the indies are back to being cool" year to a lot of people.

 

Really, even as a non Lucha watcher, it seems that Lucha has the best field this year.

[GOTNW]

 

And, honestly, I'd say Japan's field isn't any stronger then WWE due to the fact that it's basically just New Japan with a few exceptions now a days there.

New Japan could probably produce 16 guys that would be as strong as WWE's top 16 alone and this was by no means their best year. Fwiw I'm pretty sure my japanese top three from march to march would have zero New Japan people.

 

 

[Jiji]

I haven't watched a tonne but I think it's unfair to dismiss Japan beyond New Japan. The Big Japan strong style guys rule. I don't watch as much DDT or their spin offs as I'd like, but every time I watch a hyped match it either exceeds or lives up to expectations. Okabayashi alone is somebody this board should be gaga over. Lord knows Dean tries to get his name out.

[Niners Fan in CT]

I also think Dawson should be in.  Hell, probably Dash also. And Gable and Jordan separately. I think all four have had better years than the majority of the main roster. I would put them over Bray, Ryder, and these other guys we're discussing.. 

[MORELOCK]

Literally the three guys that responded to that puro talk are the three guys I think of when I think about "who are the people that are going to vote almost entirely anti-WWE just because?"

 

And it takes someone who hates WWE to act like there are as many standout wrestlers on the US Indies as there are on WWE TV.

[Jiji]

You didn't answer his simple question.

[SorceressKnight]

But in all seriousness (well as serious as I get)

 

I would be swell if folks would be some time in energy into some of the other "borderline" folks

 

Because otherwise I got the obvious guys and then I can just go with "personal preference"

 

Like - I would much rather folks sell me or talk me out of Rusev

 

Or Chris Jericho

 

Or Bray Wyatt

EDIT - "borderline" being a general descriptor and not necessarily applying to the names I picked

 

The bigger problem with Rusev in the tournament is that he's the best example of the "booking vs. wrestling" problems this year (whether my argument of Ziggler being a net negative or the Rollins vs. Corbin question mark.)   

 

On paper, this should be Rusev's year: He made the finals last year of March Madness, and on paper- if anything he just got BETTER in 2015. He gained actual mic skills, he was able to work in cheesy WWE angles and was willing to do whatever it took to make them work, and had kept blossoming from a level which, by March Madness standards, was only second to Shinsuke Nakamura in the world last year. By all rights, Rusev should have not only been a lock for the tournament, he should have been one of the favorites to win it all this year. 

 

In practice, though? I don't even think Rusev makes it to the Sweet 16, and it's solely because of how bad his booking has been this year- between the Ziggler feud and the League of Nations crap. 

[MORELOCK]

I don't *need* to watch every fucking independent promotion to know that there are better wrestlers in WWE than there are on the independent circuit - I don't know if you guys have been paying attention to what has been happening for the past several years now, but do you know what happens to the best wrestlers on the independent circuit? *They get signed to WWE*. The result of that is WWE having an enormous amount of great workers from all over the world, and all of the independent promotions in the country combined can fuck right off with the notion that they can hang.

[The Man Known as Dan]

I don't *need* to watch every fucking independent promotion to know that there are better wrestlers in WWE than there are on the independent circuit - I don't know if you guys have been paying attention to what has been happening for the past several years now, but do you know what happens to the best wrestlers on the independent circuit? *They get signed to WWE*. The result of that is WWE having an enormous amount of great workers from all over the world, and all of the independent promotions in the country combined can fuck right off with the notion that they can hang.

 

I kinda want to like this because it clearly is a parody of "stupid WWE fans who think they actually know anything about indies". Right?

[GOTNW]

Literally the three guys that responded to that puro talk are the three guys I think of when I think about "who are the people that are going to vote almost entirely anti-WWE just because?"

 

And it takes someone who hates WWE to act like there are as many standout wrestlers on the US Indies as there are on WWE TV.

These are both invalid poins that you didn't even bother backing up. Most people get into wrestling through WWE. That they would switch to a different style they enjoy watching more is completely normal and not something anyone should be begrudged for, just like no one who enjoys WWE for what it is should be begrudged for it. I voted Cena over a bunch of puro guys last year so think what you want.

 

There are plenty of standout wrestlers in independent wrestling both in the US and UK but I'll get to that in a moment.

 

 

I don't *need* to watch every fucking independent promotion to know that there are better wrestlers in WWE than there are on the independent circuit - I don't know if you guys have been paying attention to what has been happening for the past several years now, but do you know what happens to the best wrestlers on the independent circuit? *They get signed to WWE*. The result of that is WWE having an enormous amount of great workers from all over the world, and all of the independent promotions in the country combined can fuck right off with the notion that they can hang.

See, you're missing a lot of stuff here. WWE doesn't sign *everyone*. WWE has a quota they need to fill. So if there are ten pimped flip guys on the indies, they ask who's the best, it's down between Pac and Ricochet, Pac gets signed, and in the mean time five other flip guys show up. There's aso the factor of guys who were pimped not managing to adapt to the WWE going back to the indies and once again producing quality work many people enjoy and the indy wrestlers having the benefit of not working withing WWE restrictions. I like Neville, I think he's a good TV worker, but he's not someone anyone's really argued for, whereas if he worked PWG there's a much bigger chance someone would.

[The Man Known as Dan]

Literally the three guys that responded to that puro talk are the three guys I think of when I think about "who are the people that are going to vote almost entirely anti-WWE just because?"

 

And it takes someone who hates WWE to act like there are as many standout wrestlers on the US Indies as there are on WWE TV.

 

*ahem*

, 

Zack Sabre Jr., Mike Bailey, Timothy Thatcher, Chris Hero, Biff Busick, Will Ospreay, Roderick Strong, Drew Gulak, Drew Galloway, Kyle O'Reilly, Ricochet/Prince Puma, Dalton Castle, Low-Ki, Mark Andrews, Will Ospreay, Matt Sydal, Tommy End, Andrew Everett, Jay Briscoe, Rich Swann, Sami Callihan, Kimber Lee

 

I just came up with 22 Indy guys who had very good years. We are arguing for guys who had like 3 matches people liked in the WWE as being in there top 16.

[MORELOCK]

 I like Neville, I think he's a good TV worker, but he's not someone anyone's really argued for, whereas if he worked PWG there's a much bigger chance someone would.

 

You're right about this - but not because he didn't have a standout year in WWE (Gregg mentioned the Rollins match that you all predictably shit on), because the bar is extremely low for PWG workers to come off as "impressive" to people on this board. PWG workers have a leg up on being considered because people are desperate to find non-WWE stuff to enjoy and suggest for the tournament. But very few, if any, of the people working PWG right now have had as good a year as, say, Jack Swagger, who isn't considered by many to be one of the best workers in WWE.

[Jiji]

Who shit on the Rollins/Neville match?

[The Man Known as Dan]

QUIT FUCKING WITH HIS NARRATIVE OYAJI!

[MORELOCK]

Who shit on the Rollins/Neville match?

 

QUIT FUCKING WITH HIS NARRATIVE OYAJI!

 

I can't think of one match from Rollins in the voting period I would consider really good. In fact Rollins PPV main events being let downs were basically a constant.

[The Man Known as Dan]

Yep, because I don't watch Raw weekly for the most part! Haven't actually seen Rollins/Neville. 

 

Best part about this is I could be lying, and either way I'd still piss you off, which is slowly becoming my goal since this thread is lost.

[MORELOCK]

I'm not pissed off? Just don't have a problem speaking up when I see the usual strange board groupthink popping up. Indies are the minor leagues. There aren't as many indie standouts as there are WWE standouts. Sorry dudes.

[RIPPA]

Dammit! This is when I wish the board had emojis

This will have to do

 

  

[Jiji]

How can you say that when you don't watch them?

[The Man Known as Dan]

Welp, I'm not touching this discussion anymore. Don't wanna get myself banned.

 

Is there anything to really look at in Luke Harper's output this year? I can't think of any big matches he was put into outside of that eye rolling Wyatts/BOD match.

 

 

How can you say that when you don't watch them?

 

There's nothing to gain pushing this man. He has his mind set on being close minded. Let him.

[The Man Known as Dan]

Also, some further discussion on the Superstars year of Jack Swagger would be appreciated.

[Goodear]

WWE style is my preferred style and even I don't think that is accurrate.  ANYWAY, this isn't a battle of who is the most talented but who had the best 12 month period and, as pointed out, the booking of the main roster was so terrible and the injuries so plentiful this past year that even great talents like Luke Harper and Rusev didn't come off as well they could have.