Raw 11-23-15 is Dream Sequences and Jamborees

[Nice Guy Eddie]

Clearly the answer to the ratings slump is to bring back John Cena.

I'm sure Vince has already been on the phone begging him to come back ASAP.

[Patrick B.]

And that is the only possible solution.

[JCM]

A baby face that half the fans don't like chasing a heel that no one gives a shit about didn't pop a big rating? Man who saw that coming?

[Overly Critical Man]

A baby face that half the fans don't like chasing a heel that no one gives a shit about didn't pop a big rating? Man who saw that coming?

Roman was pretty damn over last night. Vince should just hunker down and stick to running that arena every week.

[Jiji]

I'm pretty sure Roman got a very big pop the last time they were in Nashville back in February.

[Fallacy!]

I don't understand why The Authority still exists. Sheamus already had the briefcase. He didn't need Triple H's help to cash it in and win the title. And there's no "henchman" anymore with Big Show and Kane no longer in the group. He could have Barrett and Rusev doing his bidding without the Authority connection. Just get H and Stephanie off TV already. They add literally NOTHING of any value to the show.

[piranesi]

Part of the reason this Authority angle doesn't work now is that there is no compelling reason, at least from the audience perspective, for HHH to be against Roman to begin with or for the audience to want to defend Roman.  You can argue that this latest turn reveals that the whole "best for business" thing has never been more than a psychological drama that centers around HHH's need for control and that may be perfectly logical, but that...doesn't matter to a crowd.  It's not moving.  Why, at this point, would HHH even care if he hand picked the champion or not?  What difference would it make?  The guy would be having matches and winning or losing just the same.  There's simply no reason for it unless you want to take the Max Landis path and find a way to make HHH's single personality compelling enough to hold your interest in itself.

 

There was a  reason HHH gave to be against Daniel Bryan and it resonated.  Bryan wasn't a star.  He was too small and too ugly and too earnest and too naive.  These qualities play to the crowd and so they supported Bryan and had a reason to hate HHH.

 

Roman is obviously not too small or too ugly or too earnest or too naive.  HHH doesn't want him only because Roman said no to him.  And why would anyone give a fuck about that?  Maybe at most because it makes HHH a troll and he's doing this just to annoy the viewers by not giving a happy ending ever.  But you know what is never as fun to see or read or sit through as a troll thinks it is?  TROLL SCHTICK! 

 

So they have no reason to support Roman in this.  He's not an underdog by nature.  He's not "one of us."  The implied drama is that the Troll is so dominant and powerful that Roman is the only one who can defeat them and get rid of them for us.  He is, I guess, Rippa with the ban hammer. 

 

But we've already seen that storyline.  And they never leave.  Even when they're fired they never leave.  And even when the good guy wins, they just book him in a harder match.  So we're just supposed to be tired of HHH's trolling.  And we are...tired of it...the story itself is tiring.  Being trolled is tiring.  And Roman winning a match does not offer any hope of a new chapter, just a different haircut in the same tired dance.

 

The Wyatts might have been a good foil for Roman, but they've been around forever and have never actually done anything bad to anyone, other than to us by taking up huge chunks of our life with no payoff., they are pointless now.  The worst they've ever done is beat someone up after a match...which is pretty much what Wade Barrett does, just with better lighting.

 

Brock is an unbeatable evil but apparently he's being saved for something else...I guess?

 

The way out would be for Roman to go to the ring last night, and just lay all three of them out Stunner Stunner Stunner beer beer...and then beat them and beat them and beat them...and then they're gone...You want Roman Reigns to be a star?  Then let him beat the authority..easily...and for good.  Now he's different.  Now he's not just another guy.  Now he's different enough to be the franchise babyface.  The longer it takes to get past the Authority, the more he's just a different haircut.

 

...and then something new...Brock and Heyman?  and then..something new...

[Niners Fan in CT]

So this show was a record low for a non-holiday episode. If the ratings were a problem before I can only imagine now.

[The Nature Boy]

This rating looks worse than 1997 because Vince isn't competing with a red-hot nWo for the wrestling audience. WWE has hit rock bottom. 

[bink_winkleman]

Why do I watch, you ask? Because I'm far enough behind on NXT that it's a lost cause and because I'm sick of watching the Patriots. And the thought of watching anything but football or rasslin on a Monday is heinous.

 

You do know, that you don't necessarily have to watch every single episode of NXT? NXT is great, but it's not Game of Thrones.

It's more that there are like ten million matches and debuts I want to see and it's overwhelming to the point of being a pain in the ass to sort out and prioritize. I'm just too lazy/passive to bother.

And I can't wait for Cena to get back. This show is garbage with the exception of New Day, and Cena already seems less stale than Reigns, who sucks the life out of everything he's involved with. And anyone who can take screen time away from HHH/Steph is fine by me.

Orton's return, on the other hand - Jesus Christ that may be what finally inspires me to catch up on NXT.

[SirSmUgly]

Re: Piranesi's thoughts, I suppose the idea here would be that HHH knows that he's dealing with a hard-headed dude. He broke up the Shield by getting to Rollins, who is easily controllable via negging, gaslighting, etc. (all that "you need to get the job done" stuff which failed to acknowledge the odds that the Authority itself allowed to pile up against Rollins and that attacked Rollins's self-worth). 

 

However, he knows that Ambrose has a deep sense of loyalty and hasn't even bothered with trying to approach him (and on top of that, Ambrose is like a greasy, dumpster-diving Bryan in that I doubt that the HHH character would see him as championship material anyway). Roman has the look, but apparently considering how he refuses to turn on Ambrose, he has the same sense of loyalty to others which HHH sees as threatening - he needs a guy who is willing to be loyal only to The Authority and who can be molded properly. 

 

Thus, he wants Reigns away from the gold. It's more about control than anything else. This is why he also had problems with Cena, the posterboy for the company. It's about having the look to be champ for the corporation, but even more than that, it's about being the type of guy who would, say, rat on another wrestler who was trying to unionize the boys in the back in order to protect the company itself.

 

So what I'm saying is that HHH should bring HH back to be the new corporate champ. They can call their little stable The 5-H Club. 

[Matt D]

The mere idea of anything on WWE Network being Game of Thrones intrigues me. Kevin Owens would make a fine Robert Baratheon!

 

James

That was the best episode of JBL/Cole show.

[Fallacy!]

Piranesi, I think you summed it up perfectly. HHH had a legit reason to not want Daniel Bryan as champion, which made the storyline so compelling. It's devolved to the point where it's just Authority vs. every top babyface. So boring.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Re: Triple H and Roman.

 

I think the logic is along the same lines as Cena, The Authority does view Roman Reigns as a star just as they view Cena as a star. But The Authority make it clear to everyone that they need to do this or do that.  Cena said "no, fuck you" and sided with Bryan (which was an attempt to actually get Cena more over because he sided with the guy most fans actually like)  So The Authority then backs Seth Rollins and Randy Orton. 

 

In this case The Authority is backing whoever is against Roman Reigns because creative thinks they can recreate a Triple H vs. Batista or Triple H vs. Bryan setup.  In a way, they are right...  Reigns and Triple H is something that a portion of the audience would want to see... Roman spearing him got a reaction but it's not enough.  

 

It's so dull and overdone. It's not captivating and nobody cares enough about Roman anymore. They've damn near ruined him as a top guy. 

 

NOBODY cares about Sheamus. 

 

I'm trying to think of matches that the crowd could even get hyped for right now and I'm thinking Roman vs. Owens would be one but I can't think of many.  Nobody is over right now and the record low ratings and indifference in the audience shows that. 

 

If the title isn't back around Cena's waist in a couple months I will be surprised. 

[piranesi]

I guess that makes sense.  But the end result is, if there's a company where the boss comes out from the back room to the main floor and says to the customers "I'm never going to give you assholes anything you like." and you're like "Why?  You're a business right?" and the boss says "Fuck you, that's why."  and then another guy says "No way.  We'll fix this."

 

and so you hang around hoping the good guy wins and the company stops overtly sucking on purpose for some bizarre reason...and it doesn't because that 2nd guy just loses and loses and loses and then gets taken out permanently.

 

And then two years later, you check back in and the same boss is still boss and is still promising to never let you have anything you want and another guy is saying "Don't worry.  We'll fix this."

 

Man...I don't think I'm going back.  I mean, they eventually even got rid of Dov Charney, didn't they?

[SirSmUgly]

I can't imagine that putting the gold on Cena is going to do much of anything to stop the ratings slide.

 

I think we're in WCW in 2000 territory; the ratings are finally catching up to how awful the booking has been. No one guy, especially not a guy who has been on top for the past decade, is going to stop that slide.

 

This is obvious and most people have said it already, but what ails WWE is systemic. Though on the other hand, Vince McMahon trying to beat his audience into submission and failing is pretty compelling in its own way. Not "trying not to cry at Linda's concession speech" compelling, of course, but compelling nonetheless. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

Sting and Dolph got rid of The Authority.  Ratings for whatever the reason declined and USA and creative said "put Hunter and Steph back on TV!".  Obviously that wasn't the way to fix it. If anything, it's made matters worse. 

 

People have been saying for ten years that "Vince doesn't have it anymore" at this point I'm not even sure how that could be argued.  He is clueless. He has no idea what to do.

 

This isn't "the sky is falling!" really, it's not an exaggeration to say WWE is in trouble. Are they going to lose TV? No, definitely not.  But when you lose nearly 50% of your audience in a year?? It's trouble..

[piranesi]

There's so many individual things that people point out as being wrong.  I wonder which one would be the most important:

 

- overscripting the workers not allowing them to become unique

- not letting heels work as heels

- keeping a massive stew of 50/50 midcarders that is basically everyone not in the main event storyline

- bringing in guys hot and then immediately grinding them into that midcard stew

- not bothering to write an real stories for the tag division

- too much t.v. to fill which leads to feuds stretching on endlessly and making us hate guys for working the same match 15 times on t.v.

- too much corporate double speak

 

all of this is part of Vince's book of wisdom at least as it has stood for the last decade or so. 

 

The thing that seems to tie it all together is a kind of caution.  Steady on and do things "the smart way" and not trust anyone enough to give them free reign to stand out or break the tried and true patterns.  It's too much of a risk to the system to build someone up to fast or let a big storyiine end clean or decisively or not be super careful with every word.  It's maybe all a part of that strategy to make the company "cycle proof"...so big and steady that they don't need a hot angle and can just plug on making a profit forever.

 

That's the theory, and it's worked for awhile.  But it makes a show with tiny flashes of brilliance that are never allowed to become anything.

[SirSmUgly]

It's hard to say what the biggest issue is, but until you cut on the show and realize how much sheer talent they have by virtue of being the biggest wrestling company in the world and being able to outbid any of the other companies for whomever they please, the fact that they have zero legit main eventers other than John Cena and Randy Orton right now and have made only two guys legitimate main eventers since Cena elevated to the top of the company (Punk and Bryan), this has to be the least than any company has done with so much talent in wrestling history. I have never heard a story of a company with such an embarrassment of riches that keeps shedding its audience in the way that WWE has done over the past year-plus. 

 

I guess I've answered your question actually because if they just let guys get themselves over organically, they would have had five or six guys that they could have plugged into Rollins's spot after he went down injured. 

[piranesi]

So, is this something people sort of agree on, that if there's one policy they could change the fastest that might lead to a turnaround in the next year or so, it would be just to let there guys take over their own promos more and see what happens?

[The Nature Boy]

Am I the worst person on Earth for making one of my best friends and his girlfriend into die-hard wrestling fans? They started watching in March and they're already bitter smart fans who hate the way WWE is run but they watch anyway. They mostly watch for NXT and just watch RAW because it's there.

[Niners Fan in CT]

The best way to create stars is to give the guys some creative freedom and book them as stars.  Why did Rusev have to lose to Cena and get demoted into that midcard stew? Why did the same thing have to happen to Owens? Why did the same thing have to happen to Bray again and again?

 

these were all guys that the crowd were reacting to. 

[The Nature Boy]

So, is this something people sort of agree on, that if there's one policy they could change the fastest that might lead to a turnaround in the next year or so, it would be just to let there guys take over their own promos more and see what happens?

 

What's weird is the way that promos are taught in the Performance Center. If you watch "Breaking Ground," you'll see that in the promo classes, guys are just told to go in front of the camera and get their gimmick over with no script. It kind of makes wonder what Triple H sees in the future. 

 

That also might be an issue. The NXT guys are trained in Triple H's vision and then get to the main roster and have to deal with whatever BS Vince throws at them. 

[SirSmUgly]

Well, that's half of it. They need to let guys get themselves over and then actually push the ones who do get over by protecting them with lots of wins. 

 

The New Day got themselves over as a comedy act, but they're not near the top of the card where they should be based on overness. They were going the right way by having them get more vicious and beating down Reigns, but then they throttled back on it and have Big E jobbing to an Uso at Survivor Series or what the fuck ever. 

 

They should have had The New Day keep the vicious streak and added a winning streak to it as well. This is a team that I don't think ever cleanly beat the Dudleys straight up. The fucking Dudleys! They beat them with subterfuge and took two DQ losses on TV, IIRC. Not everyone has to be a main eventer, but they have a chance with Big E, Owens, and Ambrose, all of whom have gotten over even with the shit writing and booking. Those guys should be winning nearly every match they are in right now. 

[Burgundy LaRue]

Organic promos and allow heels to be actual heels.  Can you imagine if Owens was allowed to fully unleash on the roster?  If Bray was allowed to be a legitmate cult type who lured lower-card guys over with promises he can't possibly keep, but they're so desperate to finally make it big, so they get caught in his web? That would help a lot.