Brian Fowler Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I don't know man, I like Batman & Robin way more than most people. Like in a "I think it's better than The Dark Knight Rises" kinda way. But Forever was pretty terrible, I'll give you that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Jingus, you're nitpicking with me over the possibility rate of death between throwing someone down the stairs and whatever, come on lol. I dont even want to bash Daredevil at all but he does have a care free attitude in how he fights for someone who is no kill. Regardless of all that, I've even said I'd like to see a new director moving forward. I think the worst movie ever comments are way over the top but I can see some valid criticisms. I don't think this kills the DCEU. I think they'll be fine but they need suicide squad to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Snyder will catch most of the flack for this, and certainly there are some bad choices that were clearly his, but ultimately, this movie sucks because of Warner Bros. Its so obvious they took this opportunity to jam every Superman story they've wanted to do for the last 20 years into a single movie. It's Batman vs. Superman, Death of Superman, and the launch of a shared universe megafranchise, all clusterfucked into one movie. Its absurd, and nobody but a studio bean counter would think it was a good idea. It's on them. If Snyder had been allowed to tell just one of those stories, I have no doubt it would've been a substantially better movie. But as it was...the Batman/Superman conflict isn't given any room to flesh itself out, because the movie has to do all the legwork to establish Lex and get Doomsday up and running - which in turn is half-assed because it's splitting time with BvS, and then you just pile on the Justice League stuff on top of that. Yeesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 Why didn't they just do this in two parts? Release the first half now and the second half in the winter. It's obvious you can't fit all this into one film unless the extended version fixes that but still, the editing choices sucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MADCAP Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 3 hours ago, Craig H said: You guys are exhausting. FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamal Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 I'm probably one of the biggest Wonder Woman fans around so I was really in this for her. And I wasn't disappointed. What we got of Gal's Diana was enough to get me excited for her movie. Hell, I'm excited about the future of the DC Movie Universe as a whole, after seeing this. Was there a lot going on? Hell yea, but I understand the vision and respect the ambition. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ligerbusa Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 hour ago, Jingus said: There's a big difference between anything Daredevil ever does and shooting people with a machine gun, a grenade launcher, and a flamethrower. The guaranteed lethality rate of the latter is so much higher than punching/kicking/throwing someone that they're not a good comparison. He didn't shoot anyone with a flamethrower, he shot the tank. Same with the other weapons, unless you're referring to the weapons on the Batmobile. Anyway, Snyder confirmed the CIA undercover photographer was Jimmy Olsen and there will be more of him in the Ultimate Edition. The role was originally for Jesse Eisenberg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted March 25, 2016 Share Posted March 25, 2016 1 minute ago, Jamal said: Hell, I'm excited about the future of the DC Movie Universe as a whole, after seeing this. Well, that's what makes for kind of an interesting dichotomy. This is an outright bad movie. But it's not bad in a way that I think poisons the well for the movies to come. Even if her reason for being around is flimsy, Wonder Woman's introduction to the universe was an unequivocal success, and that bodes well for her movie. Likewise, Jeremy Irons is a winner as Alfred, and the one scene where Batman actually gets to do Batman things at the end was very over with the crowd I saw the film with. I think most audiences would be game for a Batfleck movie with more of that and less of the monomaniacal obsession with murdering Superman. And I thought the final Trinity vs. Doomsday fight had a good vibe to it, and it was really over with the crowd, and I think people would like to see more of that kind of action with the rest of the JL. Plus, it ends on a bittersweet-but-optimistic note that at least suggest the possibility that future installments don't have to be so unrelentingly dour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said: Jingus, you're nitpicking with me over the possibility rate of death between throwing someone down the stairs and whatever, come on lol. I dont even want to bash Daredevil at all but he does have a care free attitude in how he fights for someone who is no kill. Regardless of all that, I've even said I'd like to see a new director moving forward. I think the worst movie ever comments are way over the top but I can see some valid criticisms. I don't think this kills the DCEU. I think they'll be fine but they need suicide squad to deliver. That isn't a nitpick. There is a chance someone can die from a punch, kick, or a fall down the stairs. Those things are generally not fatal. There is no reason to shoot someone with a machine gun unless you are explicitly trying to kill them. Being sprayed by a machine gun generally is fatal. There is a humongous difference between the two. For the most part, I don't think people are that up in arms about whether Batman killed people in this movie. I just want to know how you figure that he wasn't going out of his way to try to murder those people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinube Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 "There’s a scene from the graphic novel where he busts through a wall, takes the guy’s machine gun… I took that little vignette from a scene in The Dark Knight Returns, and at the end of that, he shoots the guy right between the eyes with the machine gun. One shot." Here is the part that Snyder is referring to. That doesn't look like between the eyes to me. Anyway, like Jingus said, Batman never outright kills anyone, even in the Dark Knight Returns. He is more brutal. He uses guns. He is more "extreme" but he never steps into the realm of murder (depending on how you think about the Joker scene, I guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 The first forty-five minutes or hour of this movie is actively fucking terrible. Then, thank the heavens, it gets significantly better. It's overstuffed, and Christ did Terrio love taking lines from comic books and presenting them in totally different contexts, often contrary to the meaning they had in the original, just to show that he's read them, I guess? Nobody does slick and glossy ultraviolence like Zack Snyder, for better or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Yeah, okay, let me throw you down the stairs then and see what happens But seriously, you feel how you feel about it and I'll feel how I feel. I don't want to do a 2-year back and forth like with MoS. Most of the guys in this thread who hated the movie said they were probably going to hate it going in and most of the people who thought it would be good either thought it was fun or okay. There's not going to be any changing minds on anything here lol 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Fowler, I saw Goyer is still credited.. how much of this is him and how much is Terrio? It's never good when a better writer has to come in and change a bunch of shit. I actually thought Terrio would be writing the entire thing. I also heard Affleck was on the set making changes as they were shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Well, its not like Goyer has a great rep now, at least regarding his comics work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Just now, odessasteps said: Well, its not like Goyer has a great rep now, at least regarding his comics work. I don't think Goyer has ever had a great rep for anything. I'm fairly certain now that he didn't write any of the Nolan trilogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I wonder if it would be accurate to say he is the DC parallel of Jeph Loeb, where a lot of his comics work has been retroactively credited more to their collaborators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Did Goyer have a script credit on Begins? I know he only had story credits on the other two. Affleck denied the reports that herl rewrote things, and thus his career has come full circle. I have no idea how the Goyer/Terrio breakdown worked. I don't know if Terrio did rewrites, if they emailed it back and forth or if they wrote it together, but it was messy. Not the worst script ever (accepting that it was going to be in that absurd dark universe already established in MoS) but it was messy. Also, the did Batman kill anyone debate is weird. Snyder says he did. He clearly flipped over a truck with a gunner in the bed that then exploded. That's dead. Not "it might have killed him." Not "comics are weird about how people die." Just dead. And, again, the fucking director says clearly Batman kills people in the movie. I'd much rather that wasn't there, but it was. There was a line about his "this world corrupts every good person" that I'm taking as evidence for my Earth 3 fanwank. I like the movies much better that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 3 minutes ago, odessasteps said: I wonder if it would be accurate to say he is the DC parallel of Jeph Loeb, where a lot of his comics work has been retroactively credited more to their collaborators. Shit, isn't Loeb still the DC Loeb? Long Halloween, For All Seasons, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I meant each having a standing of import in the respective companies regarding media properties. I know Loeb has a title but didnt look it up. Not sure if ive ever met Goyer, but i did have a fun conversation at my first or second year at SDCC talking to Loeb and Sale about their Challengers mini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 I think the only Goyer comic I've ever read was JSA, and that was with Johns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 12 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: There was a line about his "this world corrupts every good person" that I'm taking as evidence for my Earth 3 fanwank. I like the movies much better that way. I thought Snyder said Batman didn't try and "directly" kill people, he just was kind of like "well, fuck it" if someone did die. Also, I think the thing they were going for is that everyone has died around Bruce. Everyone. Robin is dead etc. "How many good men are left, how many stay that way?" So here's an aging grumpy son of a bitch who has seen the absolute worst in the world and has lost his way but then eventually Superman shows him the path and that's why Bruce doesn't brand Luthor. Fowler, how did your theater react to everything post-Eisenberg/Amy Addams on the roof top? I agree, everyone was sitting on their hands with that slow burn like "get on with it already" but once the Superman/Batman fight begins and then leads into the Trinity fight.. everyone became unglued. Huge applause for Wonder Woman. Huge applause for Batman at the warehouse. Good reactions for the Doomsday battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 23 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said: I think the only Goyer comic I've ever read was JSA, and that was with Johns. He co wrote Starman during the time jack was in space (right after tony harris left). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Honestly, the packed theater I was in I didn't hear hardly any response to anything except the "I'm a friend of your son's" "I figured. The cape." which got a pretty big laugh. Otherwise, it was pretty quiet. I'll admit, seeing the Trinity together on a big screen was an amazing moment for me. Covered up a lot of sins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Fowler Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 1 minute ago, odessasteps said: He co wrote Starman during the time jack was in space (right after tony harris left). Did he? I don't remember that at all. So Johns during my favorite time of his career and JDR. Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niners Fan in CT Posted March 26, 2016 Share Posted March 26, 2016 Man these guys at Collider really like the movie. Much more than I did. I think Campea makes some really great points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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