The NHL Starts Again On 10/7

[Jiji]

I'd rather have a big thumper on defense but am not going to complain about any move that adds offense, that's for sure.

I think he should be a good fit for Detroit and he had his best season since his injury in 2011-12, but $6 million is a little steep. Not ridiculously so, but enough to put some pressure on him to perform up to it.

 

Oof, yeah, Beleskey for 5 years at $3.8 million. Destined to be bought out in two/three seasons?

[Charlie M.]

Deal includes a no-move clause so probably.

[sabremike]

I'd rather have a big thumper on defense but am not going to complain about any move that adds offense, that's for sure.

I think he should be a good fit for Detroit and he had his best season since his injury in 2011-12, but $6 million is a little steep. Not ridiculously so, but enough to put some pressure on him to perform up to it.

Oof, yeah, Beleskey for 5 years at $3.8 million. Destined to be bought out in two/three seasons?

So do we all agree Beleskey is the Ville Leino award winner?

[The Man Known as Dan]

It's hard to go 'that's the worst deal ever" for a 3.8. Yeah, the 5 years is terrible, but if this is the worst contract of the year, it's at about a .8 on the Clarkson scale.

[ChesterCopperpot]

Marty St. Louis has announced his retirement

[RIPPA]

Marty St. Louis has announced his retirement

 

Considering his desire to stay in CT (or at least the East Coast) and the Rangers not being able to offer him anything made this a "easy" decision.

 

Still wish the Blue Shirts had been able to beat the Kings after his Mom passed away

[Death From Above]

The oldest man to ever win a scoring title, and got over a thousand points despite not cracking the NHL until 25 and playing in a low scoring era (and having to put up with a couple work stoppages that cost him games). Should be a hall of fame lock someday.

[The Man Known as Dan]

There are heavy rumors being reported by the only hockey beat writer in St. Louis worth paying attention to the Blues could be making a trade involving "several house hold names" shortly. And he's someone who is not usually very vocal in trade stuff. So..... I'm interested and scared.

[Shadow]

Hurricanes owner Peter Karmanos:  

Early on, he was asked if he felt responsible for the Alexander Semin signing.

 

"Yes, ultimately, I'm responsible for everything," replied the owner.  "I do not have to take responsibility for Pittsburgh signing Kessel, however".  (And so it begins.)

 

Then suddenly, out of the blue he spoke again about Pittsburgh.

 

"All right, Pittsburgh has no first round picks anymore.  They traded their first round pick from the year before.  They traded their first round pick this year and they traded their first round pick for next year.  But they do have Kessel, who may score as many goals as Alex Semin did.  All right?  And I don't have to take credit for that."

 

I just want to ask my teams owner, you salty or nah?  Because seems like shots fired to me.  

 

When asked about his own team, Karmanos said that he's never been more excited about a team.

 

"In two years, if we don't have the very best defense in the league, we will be at or near the top.  I believe you build winning teams from the goal line out.  I'm very happy with our goalie situation at this point in time.  I think in the next year or two, we will have eight top notch guys. "

 

This is one thing that I do agree with.  But in the short term, instead of losing games 6-3, they're going to lose them 2-1 because the Hurricanes still can't score.  

 

And it's not like the Hurricanes don't have talent; E. Stall, J. Stall, Skinner, and Lindholm are talented forwards.  Victor Rask is coming along.  With Semin bought out there is a big hole at RW.  You wouldn't be wrong to argue that even with Semin still a Hurricane, there was still a big hole at RW.  The second and third lines for the Hurricanes is a mess.  The problem here is that the AHL cupboard is great when it comes to defensemen, it's bare as hell when it comes to NHL ready forwards.    

 

I might catch flak for this but I would not be opposed to getting what they could get for E. Stall and C. Ward at the trade deadline.  Canes aren't winning anything soon, those guys deserve a chance to win again, and the Canes need all the picks they can get to rebuild properly and get some forward depth.  I like the moves Ron Francis has made thus far.  It will take awhile to get forward talent to Raleigh but as long as they keep moving in the right direction, I can continue to have patience with them.

 

Here ends Hurricanes talk for the 2015-2016 season.

 

[ChesterCopperpot]

There are heavy rumors being reported by the only hockey beat writer in St. Louis worth paying attention to the Blues could be making a trade involving "several house hold names" shortly. And he's someone who is not usually very vocal in trade stuff. So..... I'm interested and scared.

 

TJ Oshie to Washington - holy fuck!

[The Man Known as Dan]

Oshie being traded isn't surprising. Us getting next to fucking nothing for him is. Troy Brouwer, a random goalie prospect and a 3rd rounder? Just... huh?

[Hoffman]

In keeping with the great Blues tradition of their big name players and coaches winning the Cup soon after leaving St. Louis, I'll just put all my money behind the Capitals winning it all next season.

[Death From Above]

 

****1/2

[Charlie M.]

So are we supposed to turn on Babcock, Shanny and Dubas now? So confused about how we're supposed to treat the new Leafs regime. Oyaji?

[Buy Me a Burrito]

Hurricanes owner Peter Karmanos:  

Early on, he was asked if he felt responsible for the Alexander Semin signing.

 

"Yes, ultimately, I'm responsible for everything," replied the owner.  "I do not have to take responsibility for Pittsburgh signing Kessel, however".  (And so it begins.)

 

Then suddenly, out of the blue he spoke again about Pittsburgh.

 

"All right, Pittsburgh has no first round picks anymore.  They traded their first round pick from the year before.  They traded their first round pick this year and they traded their first round pick for next year.  But they do have Kessel, who may score as many goals as Alex Semin did.  All right?  And I don't have to take credit for that."

 

I just want to ask my teams owner, you salty or nah?  Because seems like shots fired to me.  

 

When asked about his own team, Karmanos said that he's never been more excited about a team.

 

"In two years, if we don't have the very best defense in the league, we will be at or near the top.  I believe you build winning teams from the goal line out.  I'm very happy with our goalie situation at this point in time.  I think in the next year or two, we will have eight top notch guys. "

 

This is one thing that I do agree with.  But in the short term, instead of losing games 6-3, they're going to lose them 2-1 because the Hurricanes still can't score.  

 

And it's not like the Hurricanes don't have talent; E. Stall, J. Stall, Skinner, and Lindholm are talented forwards.  Victor Rask is coming along.  With Semin bought out there is a big hole at RW.  You wouldn't be wrong to argue that even with Semin still a Hurricane, there was still a big hole at RW.  The second and third lines for the Hurricanes is a mess.  The problem here is that the AHL cupboard is great when it comes to defensemen, it's bare as hell when it comes to NHL ready forwards.    

 

I might catch flak for this but I would not be opposed to getting what they could get for E. Stall and C. Ward at the trade deadline.  Canes aren't winning anything soon, those guys deserve a chance to win again, and the Canes need all the picks they can get to rebuild properly and get some forward depth.  I like the moves Ron Francis has made thus far.  It will take awhile to get forward talent to Raleigh but as long as they keep moving in the right direction, I can continue to have patience with them.

 

Here ends Hurricanes talk for the 2015-2016 season.

You can't trade Eric without trading Jordan. Just not happening.

[Jiji]

So are we supposed to turn on Babcock, Shanny and Dubas now? So confused about how we're supposed to treat the new Leafs regime. Oyaji?

What did they do? You mean I have to watch obnoxious guy video? Hmmm...

[Charlie M.]

I just mean in general. On one hand, they've axed the evil Randy Carlyle and Dave Nonis who just didn't know how to handle such a great talent like Phil. On the other hand, Babcock basically wanted nothing to do with himand they had to retain salary for one of the league's leading goal scorers so they can "change the culture" and improve "character."

 

We spent years hearing about how Kessel was fine, he scores goals, don't ya know? Carlyle is the problem, management is the problem, leave Kessel alone. Here comes the savior, here comes Boy Wonder, and here comes Mr. Detroit Red Wings. Guess what they conclude? Phil Kessel has gotta go under any means necessary. Can't even have him around for part of a season to rebuild his value. Nope, gotta get rid of him NOW. 

 

I just feel like this trade would get ripped a lot more if say Dave Nonis made it.

[Jiji]

Maybe, but Toronto is so bad at this point that it doesn't really matter because rebuilding his value would accelerate the rebuild just a bit. Just set the dumpster on fire and begin the slow, long and arduous process of rebuilding.

 

Yes, the asset management isn't great but right now it's almost as important for the Leafs just to suck more than it is to get a great haul because the rebuild is going to take a good 3-5 years. The other reason it's not a big deal is because rebuilding teams pretty much only need cap space to take advantage of teams against the cap and Toronto should still have room for that. Obnoxious jerk video guy is right in that they shouldn't have had to include both a pick and eat some of his salary but at least they have a clear road map and are underway. To go all Bill Walton, the journey may very well end like Robert Browning's "Childe Roland to the Dark Tower Came," in that the long, perilous trip could be ultimately fruitless and be for no reason and/or be a sign of the degradation of mental stability but at least they're making an attempt and recognizing the futility of what they've been doing. 

 

It's been a weird week for trade value. We've seen a handful of trades that just represent such awful value (Kessel's trade not even being in the top 3 in poor value) but teams feel the need to do something to change their culture and will shoot themselves in the foot in order to do it. Moving Kessel for that return isn't something I would've done but in the grand scheme it ain't the biggest deal because the rot that Burke and Nonis (and Fletcher, and JFJ and...) have left is so deep it's going to take years to recover from. And as far as trading goes, it would seem as long as you're getting the best player in the trade you're going to win big time at this stage. Teams are settling for garbage, diluted returns and it's not making too much sense at this point. Yet, I can see the Leafs' reasoning for moving Kessel because he's clearly their best player and it's important to not be very good. He's not going to instill "a winning culture" and will probably continue to be unhappy, so moving him makes sense.

 

And for me, the ownership and management group recognizing that it's time to finally take their medicine is the most important thing. How Aquilini and co. in Vancouver do not see they are following the exact same path of the Calgarys and Torontos of the hockey world is just beyond me.

 

Edit: Lawrence Gilman, Lorne Henning, Eric Crawford fired, John Weisbrod getting more and more responsibilities. Ron Delorme remains in place. Get me a paper bag. 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Oyaji

[Charlie M.]

They've still got too many guys left who will make the team not bad enough, though. And if Babcock is really as good of a coach as everyone thinks he is, won't he get more out of all these guys that are left?

 

 

I will believe that the Leafs ownership has the stomach to go full long-term rebuild when I see it. Babcock is really on board to do the things that Buffalo did?  For 3 to 5 years? 

 

So far all they've done is trade away a "problem" for a bunch of dudes and signed some veterans.

[ChesterCopperpot]

[Jiji]

They've still got too many guys left who will make the team not bad enough, though. And if Babcock is really as good of a coach as everyone thinks he is, won't he get more out of all these guys that are left?

 

 

I will believe that the Leafs ownership has the stomach to go full long-term rebuild when I see it. Babcock is really on board to do the things that Buffalo did?  For 3 to 5 years? 

 

So far all they've done is trade away a "problem" for a bunch of dudes and signed some veterans.

From everything I've seen of the Leafs, I would certainly question your first statement. They've drafted 8th and 4th the last two seasons and just traded their (by far) best player for prospects. Didn't Babcock state in his press conference that before signing he asked ownership if they were truly committed to rebuilding and that it would take a long time?

[Charlie M.]

 

They've still got too many guys left who will make the team not bad enough, though. And if Babcock is really as good of a coach as everyone thinks he is, won't he get more out of all these guys that are left?

 

 

I will believe that the Leafs ownership has the stomach to go full long-term rebuild when I see it. Babcock is really on board to do the things that Buffalo did?  For 3 to 5 years? 

 

So far all they've done is trade away a "problem" for a bunch of dudes and signed some veterans.

From everything I've seen of the Leafs, I would certainly question your first statement. They've drafted 8th and 4th the last two seasons and just traded their (by far) best player for prospects. Didn't Babcock state in his press conference that before signing he asked ownership if they were truly committed to rebuilding and that it would take a long time?

 

 

But we're told that Carlyle is the suckiest suck who ever sucked and Babcock is a great coach.

 

They've been good at times and then fallen off the face of the earth into dysfunction and quitting and mailing it in. What if they get off to another good start? Will they start trading away players who are playing too well like Buffalo did?

[Matthew]

There isn't a hell of a lot left to trade if rumours are to be believed. It sounds like Phaneuf is being given an opportunity to impress Babcock/other teams for part of next season so he's not going anywhere this summer and guys like Kadri/Rielly/Gardiner are seen as young/good enough to be part of the rebuild. The only ones people are mentioning are Bozak and Lupul both of which are gonna be very difficult to move. The two players I'd have looked at are Bernier and JVR. Both are 26 which, for a team looking at a 3-5 rebuild, could make you expendable based on how old they'd be by the time things get turned around. JVR has a great contract and there was a pretty strong goalie market which isn't always the case. Probably could have got some good value there. Then you're pretty much left with a bunch of placeholders on one/two year deals that I'd hope would be flipped for picks if they were to catch fire next season. Shanahan has continually stressed patience so it wouldn't surprise me at all if things get pretty quiet in a hurry.

[Jiji]

But we're told that Carlyle is the suckiest suck who ever sucked and Babcock is a great coach.

 

They've been good at times and then fallen off the face of the earth into dysfunction and quitting and mailing it in. What if they get off to another good start? Will they start trading away players who are playing too well like Buffalo did?

Just because Carlyle sucked doesn't mean that his team wasn't bad. You can have a shitty coach with a shitty team and one doesn't excuse the other. I know you're being facetious with the last question (this whole conversation?) but it depends on the player in question. If Lupul is playing fantastic hockey and you have other teams interested in him, absolutely. Bozak would be the first out the door if I were president (Wyclef!). But younger players playing well? You obviously keep them. You don't need a 1st overall to get your rebuild going. Many franchise players go in the top 10 but not necessarily the top 3.

[Buy Me a Burrito]

Noah Hanifin!