supremebve Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 All of this talk of disappointing fights bothers me. Mayweather is an undefeated fighter, so he's not going to mess with the formula that has gotten him win after win. It is up to the challenger to bring the fight and win the title and Pac-Man did not get the job done. I don't know why everyone expected Money to do anything different other than follow his blueprint to victory. People just want to see Floyd lose, and won't be satisfied with any result until that is what happens. If Pacquiao would have knocked him out everyone would be doing cartwheels and popping champagne. It is not going to happen, Floyd Mayweather is a masterful defensive fighter, and there is no one who can hit him. Every single fight is going to play out the same way, and we all know it. There are plenty of reasons not to like Floyd, but his boxing style isn't one of them. Those fights could be exciting if his opponents didn't give up 4 rounds into the fight, but they always do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glfpunk Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I like how everyone swears that Floyd Mayweather fights aren't worth the money, when he is by far the biggest pay-per-view draw of all time. His fight with Saul Alvarez grossed $150 million, the biggest non-Floyd PPV is $112 million. He's going to have the top three biggest PPVs of all-time and all of them are at least $25 million more than #4. Yeah. Clearly people are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 That's like your standard answer for anything now. I'd feel robbed if I paid a hundred for that mess. Hey, for some reason, people seem to be masochists or some weird type of completist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Maybe I am just weird because I can divorce Money's mouth from his skill and not feel cheated by the fight because Money put on a fucking clinic. If you are going to be disappointed, be disappointed in Pac-man. Dude may not have been as busy as he usually is, but he didn't throw those flurries like his shoulder was injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Maybe I am just weird because I can divorce Money's mouth from his skill and not feel cheated by the fight because Money put on a fucking clinic. If you are going to be disappointed, be disappointed in Pac-man. Dude may not have been as busy as he usually is, but he didn't throw those flurries like his shoulder was injured. I think the reason why no one thought he was injured is that he looked like pretty much the most recent iteration of Manny Pacquiao. Just against a fighter who has better defense than anyone he has ever fought. Personally, I think he has been a steady decline since the fights at Cowboys Stadium. For Manny to have a modicum of chance against Floyd, he would have needed to revert to a fighter we have not seen in six or seven years. That's possible at the age of 31 or 32. On the wrong side of 35, not so much. That's not only simply because of the skill disparity, but the sheer size disadvantage. Floyd use to be a lightweight pretending to be a junior welterweight and then a small sized junior welterweight pretending to be a welterweight and junior middleweight. Now he is about as settle into being a welterweight as he possibly can be. Manny still has to eat burgers to get a few pounds within the welterweight limit. That's a lot to overcome when you're physically breaking down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Maybe I am just weird because I can divorce Money's mouth from his skill and not feel cheated by the fight because Money put on a fucking clinic. If you are going to be disappointed, be disappointed in Pac-man. Dude may not have been as busy as he usually is, but he didn't throw those flurries like his shoulder was injured. I think the reason why no one thought he was injured is that he looked like pretty much the most recent iteration of Manny Pacquiao. Just against a fighter who has better defense than anyone he has ever fought. Personally, I think he has been a steady decline since the fights at Cowboys Stadium. For Manny to have a modicum of chance against Floyd, he would have needed to revert to a fighter we have not seen in six or seven years. That's possible at the age of 31 or 32. On the wrong side of 35, not so much. That's not only simply because of the skill disparity, but the sheer size disadvantage. Floyd use to be a lightweight pretending to be a junior welterweight and then a small sized junior welterweight pretending to be a welterweight and junior middleweight. Now he is about as settle into being a welterweight as he possibly can be. Manny still has to eat burgers to get a few pounds within the welterweight limit. That's a lot to overcome when you're physically breaking down. If Manny was at his absolute peak, and he fought this Floyd Mayweather, he still loses. Floyd Mayweather is just plain better at not getting hit than Manny is, was, or ever will be at hitting someone. They can fight 150 times, and Manny won't be that much more competitive than he was Saturday night. He just isn't going to be able to overcome the speed advantage, size advantage, and skill advantage. I've heard multiple people who were in the building say that after the 4th round when Manny landed his best shot, Floyd was visibly upset that he allowed himself to get hit. Not that Manny hit him, but that he made a mistake that left himself open to be hit. That is the difference between these two fighters. Floyd can pick and choose when he wants to hit Manny. Manny has to wait for one of the best tactical fighters in the history of the sport to make a mistake in order to hit him. Manny cannot beat Floyd Mayweather because in order to win a boxing match you have to hit your opponent more than he hits you, and I don't see any way he can do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 The thing is..that Manny would NOT be fighting this version of Floyd Mayweather. He would have been fighting a younger Floyd with slightly more stamina. Floyd got old too and lost some of his abilities. What would have been Gatti type performance against someone like Robert Guerrero isn't really enough to get someone out of there nowadays. So he chooses to fight in a no frills type of way. By this, I mean if he hasn't stopped a guy by the eighth round, he won't push the issue. So you will see glimpses of a more offensive Floyd Mayweather, but it's fewer and far between because he knows he can always make adjustments on the fly. With Pacquiao, you can see he wants to knock certain guys out that really don't belong in there with him. Yet, his body really isn't responding to that wish. 2009 Pacquiao would have fucking demolished Chris Algeri. Now, we gotta settle for him carrying that type of guy and occasionally getting a knockdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think the biggest difference is that 6 years ago, one of them would have gotten dropped, simply because Manny fought such a fearless style then. Dude didn't seem to care about getting hit, and threw freely. I get the feeling it would have closely resembled JMM vs Pacquiao. Slightly different note, ESPN has rumblings that Floyd is open to rematch after Manny has shoulder surgery. Have to say I'm literally shocked at this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Manny at his peak would still have a puncher's chance of beating Money at his peak. Money's chin has never really been tested and Pac hit like a bus back in the day. Old man haze not withstanding, I have only seen Money even close to being in trouble once or twice and one of those times was the Mayweather - Mosely fight. Sugar Shane hurt Money but let off of the hook and did not close in later rounds. Money made adjustments like a champion does and clowned Shane all the way to a decision win. Pac-Man has a one million percent better killer instinct than Mosely did. If Pac had Money as hurt as Mosely did, Pac would find a way to finish. The thing is that the reverse is also true. We know that if you hit Pac-man hard enough, he'll go down and Money could throw punches in bunches and get TKO's with the best of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think the biggest difference is that 6 years ago, one of them would have gotten dropped, simply because Manny fought such a fearless style then. Dude didn't seem to care about getting hit, and threw freely. I get the feeling it would have closely resembled JMM vs Pacquiao. Slightly different note, ESPN has rumblings that Floyd is open to rematch after Manny has shoulder surgery. Have to say I'm literally shocked at this. He did/does fight in a fearless style but he also looked for openings to take advantage of. The best thing about Manny around the time of the IBF 122 lbs. title run is he could be a really smart fighter despite doing some dumb things like getting dropped by random dudes from Kazakhstan. I think after Morales I, he really learned a lesson so we never really got that again. The problem is less openings and the fact the punches are not really landing at the speed and angles they use to. I would say Floyd's chin has been tested plenty of times. He just has insanely fast recovery skills and knows how to impede your offense. The same dude who almost laid Adrian Stone six feet under hurt Floyd and then couldn't finish him. PEDs be damned. Maidana stood Floyd up with a punch in the rematch (I wanna say the end of round 4). He only really woke him up, and Floyd came out like nothing happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I would say Floyd's chin has been tested plenty of times. He just has insanely fast recovery skills and knows how to impede your offense. The same dude who almost laid Adrian Stone six feet under hurt Floyd and then couldn't finish him. PEDs be damned. Maidana stood Floyd up with a punch in the rematch (I wanna say the end of round 4). He only really woke him up, and Floyd came out like nothing happened. Yeah, I think this is closer to the truth and is a better testament to Floyd's skills than anything. The man knows how to switch gears quickly from survival mode when he's wounded to score points mode when he's shaken the cobwebs out and he isn't a reckless fighter despite his antics. He doesn't chase KOs if he doesn't have to and he knows how to frustrate the hell out of you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supremebve Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Define hurt, because I don't think I've ever seen him in a position where I thought he was going to go out. I've seen him take a clean shot, back up, regroup and decide that won't be happening again. I define hurt as being stunned to the point where someone's legs aren't under them and they're in danger of getting KO'd or TKO'd. He's been hit hard, but never to the point where I thought the person was about to finish him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Shane Mosely had Money wobble legged in their fight. Money just has amazing recovery and has just enough snap in his counter punches to make you think he isn't hurt when he actually is. It is a shell game.. It also helps that Shane Mosely is a horrible judge of ring posture. I don't think he realized how hurt Money really was. It was smart to respect Mayweather's counterpunching and not get rocked trying to finish, but it wasn't wise... if that makes any sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 IMO, there is hurt and then there is ready to go. With the former, you at least have to adequately follow up and land more significant punches. The latter is where the fighter on offense really doesn't have to be in a position to land another big shot. A recent and kinda extreme example would be Kovalev vs. Pascal. Kovalev hurt Pascal a few times early on and Pascal survived. Then, I think Pascal hurt Kovalev at least once around the middle rounds. Then, Pascal tired out and Kovalev got his second wind. Pascal was stumbling around like a drunk man outside a liquor store. Then, the referee virtually had no choice but to stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I like how everyone swears that Floyd Mayweather fights aren't worth the money, when he is by far the biggest pay-per-view draw of all time. His fight with Saul Alvarez grossed $150 million, the biggest non-Floyd PPV is $112 million. He's going to have the top three biggest PPVs of all-time and all of them are at least $25 million more than #4. Eh, adjust him for inflation and lots of that lead disappears - $100 for a PPV in 2015 is like $60 in the early-90s. He's the tallest midget in a boxing PPV universe that has dwindled to a fraction of what it was 20 years ago. Nobody gets excited for Floyd Mayweather like they did for Sugar Ray Leonard or Mike Tyson. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Well, SRL and Tyson fought when PPV was relatively new and you could have legitimate, big fights on a Monday or Wednesday. It's a weird comparison in that if someone like Amir Mansour came down the pipeline in that era ( and was obviously way younger), he would be thrown on PPV and be somewhat successful. Now guys like that are struggling to get on Friday Night Fights and whatnot. It's a system now that is made to only accomodate the biggest stars, especially now when we can differentiate which fights are big and which ones we can skip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I recall Judah catching Mayweather pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRGoldman Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Shane Mosely had Money wobble legged in their fight. Money just has amazing recovery and has just enough snap in his counter punches to make you think he isn't hurt when he actually is. It is a shell game.. It also helps that Shane Mosely is a horrible judge of ring posture. I don't think he realized how hurt Money really was. It was smart to respect Mayweather's counterpunching and not get rocked trying to finish, but it wasn't wise... if that makes any sense. That was the only point I've ever really felt like Mayweather was going to go down. Floyd was half cocked and grabbed on to Mosely's outstretched arm to hold himself up. There have been other fights where Floyd took damage (body shots against the ropes from De La Hoya and a surprisingly big flurry early from Hatton) but Mosely really rocked Floyd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elsalvajeloco Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 Hatton was fighting a pretty decent fight ...up until the part where he got knocked into the turnbuckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomAct Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I actually loved Hatton's gameplan. Got inside and just made it an ugly fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I actually loved Hatton's gameplan. Got inside and just made it an ugly fight. It's the old boxing rock-paper-scissors game. Boxer beats slugger. Slugger beats swarmer. Swarmer beats boxer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallacy! Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I like how everyone swears that Floyd Mayweather fights aren't worth the money, when he is by far the biggest pay-per-view draw of all time. His fight with Saul Alvarez grossed $150 million, the biggest non-Floyd PPV is $112 million. He's going to have the top three biggest PPVs of all-time and all of them are at least $25 million more than #4. Anyone who spends $50+ on a PPV is going to find something to be upset about. Everyone used to complain Tyson's fights weren't worth the money because they were too short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I like how everyone swears that Floyd Mayweather fights aren't worth the money, when he is by far the biggest pay-per-view draw of all time. His fight with Saul Alvarez grossed $150 million, the biggest non-Floyd PPV is $112 million. He's going to have the top three biggest PPVs of all-time and all of them are at least $25 million more than #4. Anyone who spends $50+ on a PPV is going to find something to be upset about. Everyone used to complain Tyson's fights weren't worth the money because they were too short. Yep, and now people get upset when 5 round MMA fights go the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistah Na1m4rk Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I like how everyone swears that Floyd Mayweather fights aren't worth the money, when he is by far the biggest pay-per-view draw of all time. His fight with Saul Alvarez grossed $150 million, the biggest non-Floyd PPV is $112 million. He's going to have the top three biggest PPVs of all-time and all of them are at least $25 million more than #4. Anyone who spends $50+ on a PPV is going to find something to be upset about. Everyone used to complain Tyson's fights weren't worth the money because they were too short. Not me, I complained because he intentionally got himself DQ'd when he saw he was about to get beaten up again. Last boxing event I ever paid money for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonL21 Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I stand by the point that most people are upset because Floyd won. Crazy the amount of boxing historians have appeared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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